IIHF WC in July?

[Gold Standard]

February sounds o.k but I suggest once every four years and it has to be switched between Europe and North America on regular rotation. It can become the new World Cup of hockey, refs also have to be a mix of N.H.L and IIHF guys and with the refs not calling games involving it's own country (to get rid of the howling among European fans over both those issues) who needs the olympics anymore?

International hockey co-operating together can run it's own show, olympics aren't needed.

It's cute that you think that would solve the problem. The WHC follows neutrality, yet those threads are derailed every game with reffing bias complaints.

I like the Olympic tournament. and 99% of the players want Olympic participation. It makes sense to include it. but if it goes in favor of a real World Cup every 4 years with cities bidding to host, including Europe, then that's alright by me. I can live with that.

 

[jj cale]

It's cute that you think that would solve the problem. The WHC follows neutrality, yet those threads are derailed every game with reffing bias complaints.

I like the Olympic tournament. and 99% of the players want Olympic participation. It makes sense to include it. but if it goes in favor of a real World Cup every 4 years with cities bidding to host, including Europe, then that's alright by me. I can live with that.

lol, that's true, reffing bullshit is just something in those fans D.N.A. Though you could at least tell them "hey, you wanted it this way and you got it!! so shut the f*** up!!" I still think it's an important thing to do going forward in any proposed WCH.

Having a proper World cup of Hockey really does not seem like a difficult thing to do yet for some reason it's become a more difficult thing to work out then plans for a manned Mars landing.

Just ridiculous.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

lol, that's true, reffing bull**** is just something in those fans D.N.A. Though you could at least tell them "hey, you wanted it this way and you got it!! so shut the **** up!!" I still think it's an important thing to do going forward in any proposed WCH.

Having a proper World cup of Hockey really does not seem like a difficult thing to do yet for some reason it's become a more difficult thing to work out then plans for a manned Mars landing.

Just ridiculous.

I'm with you guys on this one, but with some slight variations.

I would hold a true World Cup, once every four years in February at the time when the NHL ASG would normally be held. I know there is a tendency for some big fans of international hockey to hold events more often than once every fours years, but I think the four year wait really makes the event special. Because of that I would get rid of the annual World Championships altogether and replace them with a European Championship, also once every four years, similar to how FIFA does it. Since the USA and Canada wouldn't partake in the Euro championships I would have a CAN-USA 3 game mini-series instead of the NHL ASG in some of the off years.

You're right that there may be a problem hosting the World Cup in the US, at least initially, since the US doesn't have the same international sporting culture as Europe. Because of that I'd schedule the first two NA host cities to be in Canada. If you hold the first one in Europe then that gives you 20 years to build up the prestige of the tournament before having a US host city. I'm also not a big fan of having shared host cities, better to have everyone as close together as possible.

Y1 WCUP - STOCKHOLM

Y2 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y3 EURO CHAMPS - RUSSIA

Y4 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

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Y5 WCUP - VANCOUVER​

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Y6 CAN-USA MINI SERIES​

Y7 EURO CHAMPS - CZECH
​

Y8 CAN-USA MINI SERIES​

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Y9 WCUP - HELSINKI​

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Y10 CAN-USA MINI SERIES​

Y11 EURO CHAMPS - SWITZERLAND
​

Y12 CAN-USA MINI SERIES​

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Y13 WCUP - MONTREAL​

​

Y14 CAN-USA MINI SERIES​

Y15 EURO CHAMPS - SLOVAKIA
​

Y16 CAN-USA MINI SERIES​

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Y17 WCUP - MOSCOW​

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Y18 CAN-USA MINI SERIES​

Y19 EURO CHAMPS - SWEDEN
​

Y20 CAN-USA MINI SERIES​

​

Y21 WCUP - NEW YORK​

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[TomB]

I'm with you guys on this one, but with some slight variations.

I would hold a true World Cup, once every four years in February at the time when the NHL ASG would normally be held. I know there is a tendency for some big fans of international hockey to hold events more often than once every fours years, but I think the four year wait really makes the event special. Because of that I would get rid of the annual World Championships altogether and replace them with a European Championship, also once every four years, similar to how FIFA does it. Since the USA and Canada wouldn't partake in the Euro championships I would have a CAN-USA 3 game mini-series instead of the NHL ASG in some of the off years.

You're right that there may be a problem hosting the World Cup in the US, at least initially, since the US doesn't have the same international sporting culture as Europe. Because of that I'd schedule the first two NA host cities to be in Canada. If you hold the first one in Europe then that gives you 20 years to build up the prestige of the tournament before having a US host city. I'm also not a big fan of having shared host cities, better to have everyone as close together as possible.

Y1 WCUP - STOCKHOLM

Y2 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y3 EURO CHAMPS - RUSSIA

Y4 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y5 WCUP - VANCOUVER

Y6 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y7 EURO CHAMPS - CZECH

Y8 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y9 WCUP - HELSINKI

Y10 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y11 EURO CHAMPS - SWITZERLAND

Y12 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y13 WCUP - MONTREAL

Y14 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y15 EURO CHAMPS - SLOVAKIA

Y16 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y17 WCUP - MOSCOW

Y18 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y19 EURO CHAMPS - SWEDEN

Y20 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y21 WCUP - NEW YORK
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​

And in the year preceding the World Cup/Euro Championships, qualifiers for each tournament can be held - this gives any nation wishing to enter into one of these tournaments an opportunity to do so.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

And in the year preceding the World Cup/Euro Championships, qualifiers for each tournament can be held - this gives any nation wishing to enter into one of these tournaments an opportunity to do so.

I would actually start with the first two World Cups being 6 team invitational tournaments (CAN,USA,RUS,SWE,FIN,CZE), then increase it to an eight team tournament with the two extra spots based on the previous Euro Champ results and slowly grow the tournament from there. Eventually we would get to the point where a more elaborate qualification process could be used, but I'm a start with a small solid core and grow it slowly kind of guy.

 

[jj cale]

Not sure about that system mr Kanadensisk proposed, I think so many players would decline with it being every year that I don't see why we would not just keep having the WHC as per usual.

 

[TomB]

I would actually start with the first two World Cups being 6 team invitational tournaments (CAN,USA,RUS,SWE,FIN,CZE), then increase it to an eight team tournament with the two extra spots based on the previous Euro Champ results and slowly grow the tournament from there. Eventually we would get to the point where a more elaborate qualification process could be used, but I'm a start with a small solid core and grow it slowly kind of guy.

My thinking was also that the first one be invitational, but that 8 years is a long time to go without some kind of qualification process. I'm also partial to an 8-team start, largely because excluding Switzerland seems a little harsh and no one likes odd numbers. If/when other nations become more competitive, the field could be expanded further, but that may be decades away.

I think the qualification process has to be independent of the Euro championships also; as unlikely as it might be for them to succeed the likes of Korea and Japan should be afforded the opportunity to qualify as well.

 

[jj cale]

My thinking was also that the first one be invitational, but that 8 years is a long time to go without some kind of qualification process. I'm also partial to an 8-team start, largely because excluding Switzerland seems a little harsh and no one likes odd numbers. If/when other nations become more competitive, the field could be expanded further, but that may be decades away.

I think the qualification process has to be independent of the Euro championships also; as unlikely as it might be for them to succeed the likes of Korea and Japan should be afforded the opportunity to qualify as well.

There is no way Switzerland should be excluded at all, they have earned the right to be there.

 

[93LEAFS]

Would you prefer for this tournament to be played in July? Would provide more of an opportunity to see best-on-best, as it would not coincide with the NHL playoffs. Also, NHL fans may be more inclined to tune in if their team signed new players on July 1st (first-glance opportunities).

Thoughts?

No. Players who play deep in the playoffs already play too many games. I don't want my team's players increasing their chance of injury when the team pays almost all of their income. A best on best every 4 years is fine. One every year is an unnecessary burden which will have an adverse effect on players health.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Not sure about that system mr Kanadensisk proposed, I think so many players would decline with it being every year that I don't see why we would not just keep having the WHC as per usual.

My hope is that the number of declines would go way down, but admittedly that's pretty hard to predict and it would probably take some time for a new system to grow in popularity. It's actually a lot less (but hopefully more meaningful) international hockey than we've had recently. Keep in mind that right now the WHC are held every single year, even in Olympic years, and I'm proposing the WHC be replaced by a Euro Championship, only played once every four years. That's a 75% reduction for the Euro players, not to mention the NA players that aren't even a part of it anymore.
For the NA players the annual WHC is replaced by a best of three CAN-USA mini-series played once every two years. So basically you're going from a ~10 game tournament every year in Europe, to a 2 or 3 game tournament held in an NHL city in place of the ASG. That requires way less of a commitment from the NA players and doesn't cut into their summer holidays, so I'm pretty sure the number of declines would go way down.

edit: I forgot to mention that I'd also be totally fine with the NA players sharing in the profits from this 3 game mini-series in place of the ASG, which is one less reason not to go

 

[jj cale]

My hope is that the number of declines would go way down, but admittedly that's pretty hard to predict and it would probably take some time for a new system to grow in popularity. It's actually a lot less (but hopefully more meaningful) international hockey than we've had recently. Keep in mind that right now the WHC are held every single year, even in Olympic years, and I'm proposing the WHC be replaced by a Euro Championship, only played once every four years. That's a 75% reduction for the Euro players, not to mention the NA players that aren't even a part of it anymore.
For the NA players the annual WHC is replaced by a best of three CAN-USA mini-series played once every two years. So basically you're going from a ~10 game tournament every year in Europe, to a 2 or 3 game tournament held in an NHL city in place of the ASG. That requires way less of a commitment from the NA players and doesn't cut into their summer holidays, so I'm pretty sure the number of declines would go way down.

edit: I forgot to mention that I'd also be totally fine with the NA players sharing in the profits from this 3 game mini-series in place of the ASG, which is one less reason not to go

I don't get it, in your system you have North American players playing 16 of those 21 years while the European teams only play 11 of those years, why the extra rest for the Euro players and the extra wear and tear for the N.A players? It even works out where the N.A players play 3 years straight but the Europeans don't play at all. And also I assume these u.s-Canada series will be expected to be with the best players from both sides right? if that is the case I can actually see more turn downs then what we usually see for the WHC because the same players are going to be asked to play for so many years and they aren't going to want to put that extra wear and tear on their bodies so often and we are going to get into a situation where these players are going to opt out a lot and we will get series where it's far from the best teams both sides to offer and when that happens how big of a sell is that going to be to the public?

I dunno, it all seems kinda goofy, no offense.

 

[joestevens29]

Would fans really even want this? We don't exactly get a long summer in Edmonton. Can't see a lot of people paying attention to this here.

It's festival season here as well, and it appears the UFC is finding out that summer time in Edmonton is a tough sell.

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

I don't get it, in your system you have North American players playing 16 of those 21 years while the European teams only play 11 of those years, why the extra rest for the Euro players and the extra wear and tear for the N.A players? It even works out where the N.A players play 3 years straight but the Europeans don't play at all. And also I assume these u.s-Canada series will be expected to be with the best players from both sides right? if that is the case I can actually see more turn downs then what we usually see for the WHC because the same players are going to be asked to play for so many years and they aren't going to want to put that extra wear and tear on their bodies so often and we are going to get into a situation where these players are going to opt out a lot and we will get series where it's far from the best teams both sides to offer and when that happens how big of a sell is that going to be to the public?

I dunno, it all seems kinda goofy, no offense.

It's fine if you think it's goofy, but I don't think your math is right or telling the whole story. It's on a four year cycle, so using 21, an odd multiple of four is a bit misleading. You're right though that the NA's play three out of four years in the cycle as compared to 2 out of 4 for the Euros. The main point you're missing is that the Euro Champ tournaments would have more teams and more games, more like the current WC where the top four teams play 10 games (plus exhibitions), so if you do the math the Euro teams would actually be playing slightly more, not less hockey in the four year cycle. The Euros play every other year, so there is no three year stretch where only the NA's play as you suggested.

I also don't agree that the extra 2 or 3 games every other year is going to lead to burn out and turn downs by the top NA players. It's really an insignificant number, especially considering a lot of them would be in the NHL ASG otherwise, so we're really talking about another 1 or 2 games added to a season that could have well over 110 games. If you're really sure that this is going to still be an issue then just take out the one CAN-USA series following the WCup and replace it with an NHL ASG, that works too. If you ask me what's goofy is the idea of playing in July, but to each their own.

 

[jj cale]

It's fine if you think it's goofy, but I don't think your math is right or telling the whole story. It's on a four year cycle, so using 21, an odd multiple of four is a bit misleading. You're right though that the NA's play three out of four years in the cycle as compared to 2 out of 4 for the Euros. The main point you're missing is that the Euro Champ tournaments would have more teams and more games, more like the current WC where the top four teams play 10 games (plus exhibitions), so if you do the math the Euro teams would actually be playing slightly more, not less hockey in the four year cycle. The Euros play every other year, so there is no three year stretch where only the NA's play as you suggested.

I also don't agree that the extra 2 or 3 games every other year is going to lead to burn out and turn downs by the top NA players. It's really an insignificant number, especially considering a lot of them would be in the NHL ASG otherwise, so we're really talking about another 1 or 2 games added to a season that could have well over 110 games. If you're really sure that this is going to still be an issue then just take out the one CAN-USA series following the WCup and replace it with an NHL ASG, that works too. If you ask me what's goofy is the idea of playing in July, but to each their own.

Thanks for clarifying, I was clearly a bit confused.

I agree 100% playing is July is goofy. As far as the burnout thing, I wouldn't use them playing in the all star game as an example of wear and tear, we all know what that is.................a play quarter intensity exhibition, I am sure a Can-U.S series is serious balls to the wall hockey, whole different ballgame in terms of wear and tear.

I mean , I am not opposed to the idea in principle.....................I just have a difficult time seeing it working. I know the owners will never go for it.

To me the best thing to do is do away with the annual WHC and have a proper world cup rotated between continents once every 4 years, though that is another thing the N.H.L owners or I.I.H.F are likely not going to go with either, though I think it stands a better chance of happening then what you propose.

But perhaps I'm wrong, who knows?

 

[Mr Kanadensisk]

Thanks for clarifying, I was clearly a bit confused.

I agree 100% playing is July is goofy. As far as the burnout thing, I wouldn't use them playing in the all star game as an example of wear and tear, we all know what that is.................a play quarter intensity exhibition, I am sure a Can-U.S series is serious balls to the wall hockey, whole different ballgame in terms of wear and tear.

I mean , I am not opposed to the idea in principle.....................I just have a difficult time seeing it working. I know the owners will never go for it.

To me the best thing to do is do away with the annual WHC and have a proper world cup rotated between continents once every 4 years, though that is another thing the N.H.L owners or I.I.H.F are likely not going to go with either, though I think it stands a better chance of happening then what you propose.

But perhaps I'm wrong, who knows?

International hockey is a tough sell in the US, but a USA - CAN series with all or most of the top players from each country is the one thing you could sell in any NHL market and make a handsome profit at that. I really don't think it's that far fetched and something that could also be organized without IIHF involvement, thus meaning the owners and players could keep all the $$$. It would be the first step in slowly building a market for international play in the US. Hold it in the geographic centre of the league to start off (St Louis?) to make it as easy as possible for everyone to get to. It could work...

 

[Gold Standard]

International hockey is a tough sell in the US, but a USA - CAN series with all or most of the top players from each country is the one thing you could sell in any NHL market and make a handsome profit at that. I really don't think it's that far fetched and something that could also be organized without IIHF involvement, thus meaning the owners and players could keep all the $$$. It would be the first step in slowly building a market for international play in the US. Hold it in the geographic centre of the league to start off (St Louis?) to make it as easy as possible for everyone to get to. It could work...

Yeah, I'd like to see a Canada v USA series, but not the annual 3 game midwinter thing you are selling. I'd much prefer to see a 8 game border clash in September 2022 skirting NHL arenas along the border. i.e. a home and home in Seattle/Vancouver, Detroit/Toronto etc. etc. in honor of the 50th anniversary of the original summit series that can't be recreated, so taking on the Americans makes perfect sense. expanded rosters so not all have to play the entire 8 games...as I expect it would be rather vicious and taxing on players to play the entire 8. So, say a player like McDavid plays in 6.

If it kicks starts mass interest in international hockey in US centers, places like St. Louis, then I suppose we can start taking about a semi-annual mini summit Canada v USA series. but I'd probably lose interest rather quickly if it's an annual event, much like the Winter Classic after 3 years.

but, as you say, the IIHF doesn't really need to be involved.

 

[joe dirte]

Would you prefer for this tournament to be played in July? Would provide more of an opportunity to see best-on-best, as it would not coincide with the NHL playoffs. Also, NHL fans may be more inclined to tune in if their team signed new players on July 1st (first-glance opportunities).

Thoughts?

great in theory but I think you'd get even less of the top players. these guys want their summer vacation.

It might be successful as an Olympics replacement, and it were once every 4 years?

 

[wintersej]

Ideally the NHL season would start in September but apparently they are worried about baseball fans of all people.

I bet Jacobs is involved in that reasoning. It's a lot harder for me to sell a ticket to a Bruins game while the Patriots are still playing. I imagine it would be worse if the NHL was ALSO going against the pennant drive and the baseball playoffs in one of the regions that cares about baseball like the US northeast. As a primary hockey fan... I agree though. Hockey should be played between US Labor Day and US Memorial Day.

 

[Snuuzi]

I'm with you guys on this one, but with some slight variations.

I would hold a true World Cup, once every four years in February at the time when the NHL ASG would normally be held. I know there is a tendency for some big fans of international hockey to hold events more often than once every fours years, but I think the four year wait really makes the event special. Because of that I would get rid of the annual World Championships altogether and replace them with a European Championship, also once every four years, similar to how FIFA does it. Since the USA and Canada wouldn't partake in the Euro championships I would have a CAN-USA 3 game mini-series instead of the NHL ASG in some of the off years.

You're right that there may be a problem hosting the World Cup in the US, at least initially, since the US doesn't have the same international sporting culture as Europe. Because of that I'd schedule the first two NA host cities to be in Canada. If you hold the first one in Europe then that gives you 20 years to build up the prestige of the tournament before having a US host city. I'm also not a big fan of having shared host cities, better to have everyone as close together as possible.

Y1 WCUP - STOCKHOLM

Y2 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y3 EURO CHAMPS - RUSSIA

Y4 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y5 WCUP - VANCOUVER

Y6 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y7 EURO CHAMPS - CZECH

Y8 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y9 WCUP - HELSINKI

Y10 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y11 EURO CHAMPS - SWITZERLAND

Y12 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y13 WCUP - MONTREAL

Y14 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y15 EURO CHAMPS - SLOVAKIA

Y16 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y17 WCUP - MOSCOW

Y18 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y19 EURO CHAMPS - SWEDEN

Y20 CAN-USA MINI SERIES

Y21 WCUP - NEW YORK
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The problem with this is that almost no one will care about a world cup. What many hockeyfans need to understand and accept is that hockey is a small niche sport. And whats worrisome is that it seems to have become even smaller in recent years. Atleast here in Sweden which is problematic since its one of the few countries who actually cares about the sport. The only reason the hockey world championship gets any attention at all is because it gets associated with the football world championship which is the biggest sportingevent on the planet. If hockey is to have any chance at all to grow it will be with the world championshiplable, otherwise it will probably just stay a small niche sport.

Ofcourse the NHL doesnt care about that, they only care about money. Might be shortsighted by them since hockey growing would mean a whole lot more money even for the NHL. But they play it safe and thats understandable.

 

[ottawa]

I wouldn't be against it.



Do you mean that they would be forced to participate if it was held in July?

Do you want a best-on-best or not?