"IF"....

[DeltaSwede]

People are heavily buying into media speculation without having any consideration of more reasonable or logical causes. Adding to that, a media known for throwing anything out there because they know the fan base will eat it up.

Injuries, flu bug, inconsistent play, and all of a sudden the locker room that many Canucks players call "special" is suddenly in chaos and our two star centers hate each other. We should also be firing a Jack Adams winning coach because he doesn't know what he's doing and is too passive in media scrums.

It's all so sensationalized. The truth is most likely a lot more boring and sensible.

This team will be steam rolling closer to the TDL. Hopefully they add a top 4D that can move the puck and defend well. That will unlock a lot of the things not going their way right now.

The impatience (and desperation) leads to buying into heavy and vivid speculation. Media knows the desperation in the fan base and are cashing in over and over again on people taking the bait. Now the speculation and rumors have somehow turned into the narrative and treated as fact.

 

[F A N]

The only reasons you trade Petey over Miller is that you lost faith in Petey being a 90+ point #1C and or the return allows you to better compete over the next 2 seasons.

Otherwise, you keep Petey because he's younger. The team can even afford to step back and retool for 2 years with Petey. With Miller you're wasting what's left of his prime.

I assume Petey can garner a greater return than Miller and from more teams. We're much more likely to be able to acquire a youngish 2C + asset(s) for Petey than for Miller.

 

[quat]

I understand the scenario is presented in such a way one has to choose one player over the other, but what the org needs to do is make it work with both players.

I find it difficult to believe that the Canucks can't work this out without trading one of Petey or JT or firing the coach.

You'd need an incredible amount of luck to turn Miller into something equally as productive in a trade, and with Pettersson, you're just not going to do that, period.

The Canucks have enough going against them trying to overcome previous organization killing moves without having to remove one of your best players because they're each feeling fussy in their own particular way.

They're both paid out the wazoo to play at the highest level, so how about continuing to do that?

As for an opinion on the topic, you trade Miller and then see where it goes from there. Neither Miller or Pettersson are overpaid in principal, but I'd say you're harming yourself more by trading Petey at this juncture.

 

[Bourne Endeavor]

For the sake of argument, I'll entertain choosing one even if I don't buy into all this supposed drama.

You chose whoever can't return the better package provided they aren't a hindrance to the team. If Miller's attitude is a problem beyond Pettersson but that's who he's rubbed the wrong way more than anyone else, then it really doesn't matter what the package. It's a toxic environment to keep him. Likewise, if it's Pettersson everyone else is getting fed up with.

Assuming all things equal and nobody else has a problem with either, then you put them both out there and see what's being offered. Ideally, Pettersson is the better choice due to his age and high end talent but if you get a good offer then moving off his 11.6M contract could be beneficial.

Unfortunately, with their respective play over the late year, it seems more likely Miller will command higher interest.

 

[CanucksSayEh]

Seems like BS

When EP is at his worst, Miller is the only player that will pass him the puck. He will force feed him goals to get him out of slumps.

There was a full calendar year, where Hughes just downright ignored EP for his refusal to shoot. Pretty sure they were sharing a house at the time too.

 

[Bobby9]

This scenario will show more about management and their leadership skills that the two players.

Theirs lots of very successful organizations in all businesses that have staff who don’t get along but their senior management is able to make it work.

Very interesting to see what Allvin and JR can do.

 

[theguardianII]

View attachment 948353

This scenario will show more about management and their leadership skills that the two players.

Theirs lots of very successful organizations in all businesses that have staff who don’t get along but their senior management is able to make it work.

Very interesting to see what Allvin and JR can do.

Who the F is this guy?

Teams always get rid of a cancer in the room. Those don't go away they grow and get solidify.

The two players have a very high asset levels. The returns can be very significant but then IMO Tocchet might be a problem with his desire for "boards guys" and clones of himself.
In that case any trade for players like him will be a loss for the Canucks because they won't trade for the future.

This is a team that is stuck in the mushy middle. Not enough of a winning past. No identity just a lot of very very good AHL types.
Sherwood could always hit but couldn't crack a NHL lineup but here he is a feature player due to his hits, which a lot look very late and some look like misses.

Does grow up mean just take the crud handed you and demure to another player? Bow your head?

 

[Bobby9]

Who the F is this guy?

Teams always get rid of a cancer in the room. Those don't go away they grow and get solidify.

The two players have a very high asset levels. The returns can be very significant but then IMO Tocchet might be a problem with his desire for "boards guys" and clones of himself.
In that case any trade for players like him will be a loss for the Canucks because they won't trade for the future.

This is a team that is stuck in the mushy middle. Not enough of a winning past. No identity just a lot of very very good AHL types.
Sherwood could always hit but couldn't crack a NHL lineup but here he is a feature player due to his hits, which a lot look very late and some look like misses.

Does grow up mean just take the crud handed you and demure to another player? Bow your head?

Kobe and Shaq are a perfect example. They brought in a coach that could handle personalities. Want to look up what they ended up accomplishing together?

 

[crowfish]

You 100% trade Miller. Not only has he peaked, (his career year was last season 100%) But when you factor in the weird drama he seems to bring to the locker room it's not a tough decision. First it was the Horvat / Miller stuff, then Horvat gets moved and now its Miller vs Pettersson. It's not hard to see the theme.

This team can build around Hughes/Pettersson/Demko and have a chance to contend by the time Hughes & Pettersson are in their primes. Miller at best is slightly better than Pettersson for this season & maybe next season (but probably not). Keeping Miller and trading Pettersson would be one of the biggest blunders in this franchise's history.

 

[wonton15]

Trade both, trade Hughes, tank for a few years, wait for Bedard then Celebrini to sign here as 27 year old UFAs, win cup

 

[Russian_fanatic]

This is just my 2 cents. I'm not choosing sides, but if management is at crossroads of who to choose there is an obvious answer.

Miller - Great contract, but with the way he plays the grind and tear will catch up to him. He has had problems with teammates with every team he has been on. Who is to say it stops with EP(Remember Horvat?)? What if he starts something with Hughes? I want to believe in Miller, but where there is smoke, there is fire.

EP - All things considered he is a point per game center who plays a fantastic 2 way game. He has played selke caliber defense in the past, and he has posted 100+ points (not in the same season). Consistency has been a big issue, but I do think he has been dealing with injuries. Sometimes certain injuries take awhile to come back from, look at Boeser last season. I believe in EP talent's 100%.

I do believe this relationship between EP and Miller is beyond repair. When the media starts getting involved to this level it's getting bad. It seems like they can't even play on the same line anymore... why was the lotto line broken up? They don't even play with each other for small stretches...

Sad... but EP and Hughes are still young, the window isn't closed yet, and Hughes doesn't seem like a guy to bolt on a franchise... but at the same time the locker room needs to be in sync, and we need to start producing wins, or else he will not stick around once his contract ends.

In the end I leave it to our captain Hughes, which I know management will consult him on, and he knows the lockerroom better than anyone from the media.

 

[Zaddy91]

Trade both, trade Hughes, tank for a few years, wait for Bedard then Celebrini to sign here as 27 year old UFAs, win cup

This

 

[Bobby9]

This is just my 2 cents. I'm not choosing sides, but if management is at crossroads of who to choose there is an obvious answer.

Miller - Great contract, but with the way he plays the grind and tear will catch up to him. He has had problems with teammates with every team he has been on. Who is to say it stops with EP(Remember Horvat?)? What if he starts something with Hughes? I want to believe in Miller, but where there is smoke, there is fire.

According to our team doctors on the forum EP40 is the one whos been injured every year since the bubble so whos health is really a concern?

 

[Bgav]

View attachment 948353

This scenario will show more about management and their leadership skills that the two players.

Theirs lots of very successful organizations in all businesses that have staff who don’t get along but their senior management is able to make it work.

Very interesting to see what Allvin and JR can do.

Farhans quote was about Petey, Hughes, JT and Boeser - not just petey lol

 

[Grifter3511]

Only one of them has the potential to get better than we've already seen over the next few years. I'm not confident at all that he will actually get back to or exceed what we've seen, but God damn it's hard to move on from that potential for a player pushing 32 years old. And obviously if he never does get there that contract becomes an albatross. I honestly can't say, which is why I'm glad I'm not the one making the decision(s).

 

[LordBacon]

I just hope they figure this out,
It’s for best of all parties and most importantly all fans collective mental health lol

 

[Bobby9]

Farhans quote was about Petey, Hughes, JT and Boeser - not just petey lol

"Farhan on Petey"

 

[Andy Dufresne]

Kobe and Shaq are a perfect example. They brought in a coach that could handle personalities. Want to look up what they ended up accomplishing together?

Awful example. JT and EP are not Kobe and Shaq, not by a longshot. Thatd be more if McDraisitl had a problem. Nobody considers that Lakers team a dynasty either, although it could have been one to rival the 90's Bulls. It ended in acrimony, with a trade demand, because of their egos and immaturity. Not even a zenmaster could fix Kobe/Shaq. Let's hope JT/EP are not just a less talented Kobe/Shaq cause that's gonna end badly. Also who was the Lakers' Quinn Hughes? Our actual superstar, captain, and non head case.

 

[Nona Di Giuseppe]

People are heavily buying into media speculation without having any consideration of more reasonable or logical causes. Adding to that, a media known for throwing anything out there because they know the fan base will eat it up.

Injuries, flu bug, inconsistent play, and all of a sudden the locker room that many Canucks players call "special" is suddenly in chaos and our two star centers hate each other. We should also be firing a Jack Adams winning coach because he doesn't know what he's doing and is too passive in media scrums.

It's all so sensationalized. The truth is most likely a lot more boring and sensible.

This team will be steam rolling closer to the TDL. Hopefully they add a top 4D that can move the puck and defend well. That will unlock a lot of the things not going their way right now.

The impatience (and desperation) leads to buying into heavy and vivid speculation. Media knows the desperation in the fan base and are cashing in over and over again on people taking the bait. Now the speculation and rumors have somehow turned into the narrative and treated as fact.

the way ppl are jumping to conclusions is wild tbh

 

[Pennask]

I still think this rumor of a rift between the two is way over played. There is an obvious issue with Miller. That cannot be denied. He just took 10 games off. Are people trying to play that as an issue between the two? If Miller's issue with Petey is so bad that he just takes a 10 game break from him, he is a fkn problem.... but I think Miller's problem is personal to be honest.

With that said, they need to get Miller the f*** away from the team until he gets his head on straight, or is traded. The team played it's best run of hockey this season precisely during the time period that Miller was absent. EP was on fire, Debrusk was on fire, Hughes was on fire, Garland was on fire.... now since Miller's return, it's a mess. He's a major distraction... and his special treatment he gets from teammates and staff needs to be away from the ice.

I'm not impressed with how this has ben handled.

 

[Bobby9]

Awful example. JT and EP are not Kobe and Shaq, not by a longshot. Thatd be more if McDraisitl had a problem. Nobody considers that Lakers team a dynasty either, although it could have been one to rival the 90's Bulls. It ended in acrimony, with a trade demand, because of their egos and immaturity. Not even a zenmaster could fix Kobe/Shaq. Let's hope JT/EP are not just a less talented Kobe/Shaq cause that's gonna end badly. Also who was the Lakers' Quinn Hughes? Our actual superstar, captain, and non head case.

They won 3 rings

 

[Jerry the great]

the way ppl are jumping to conclusions is wild tbh

you could say the same thing about the people who continue to bury their head in the sand about an obvious problem in the dressing room.

 

[Bgav]

"Farhan on Petey"

The tweeter didn't include the others players name on purpose. Give the hit a listen

 

[Raistlin]

To me, its obvious you trade Miller. I maintained before this season (check my history) that he will be a good teammate as long as the team is winning, that he is a bad teammate, borderline toxic, when the team loses. But that's not the case anymore. If he cannot be a good teammate to everyone even when the team is getting Ws, then he is a problem Im not willing to accommodate before he lights another fire with another core member. Petey signed here knowing Miller will be here, he is willing to work with him. J.T. on the other hand may not feel as magnanimous. To me, EP is just a private person that needs space, he is not some ultra premadonna that needs special coddling. Once you factor in age and ceiling, it shouldnt be a close debate.

Teams with a leadership vaccuum like Buffalo/NYR would love to have a strong character guy like JT to lead them, I would be surprised that he wont attract a bidding war. the key for management will be factoring in the leadership vacuum that will be left with JT's departure. They need to get professionals back that people like Garland will respect. This is not a team that can trade a Miller for a Power/Byram and call it a day.

 

[Pennask]

I always maintained that we see the real Miller when there are considerate struggles. You only need to look at his past to see this.

It was only a 2+ seasons ago that the team was trying to trade him.