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If you could control the Leafs, what would you do?

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I don't know exactly what to do...we tear it down and we might as well trade Matthews and Nylander as they won't want to waste their primes going through another rebuild and honestly they are probably the two guys on the team with the most value right now...that being said Reilley and Marner should be on the block...you will never win a Marner trade and he probably would go elsewhere and absolutely light it up once out from under the pressure cooker that is Toronto, you can see it in his body language he is checked out...probably doesn't enjoy hockey anymore (translation: doesn't enjoy playing in Toronto) you're stuck with JT unless you get SO BAD he asks to be moved out honestly though...if I inherit this team after Dubas is let go I do tear it down to the bones and restart...this rebuild went off course as soon as they signed JT (love the guy, loved he wanted to come home but that really handcuffed us in the long run)
Matthews to the best offer- Minimum a top 5 pick and multiple A level prospects plus 1 or 2 NHL ready players
Marner- to LA for Quinton Byfield + with some retention to make it more palatable for the Kings
Nylander- Best offer
Reilley- best offer

We wouldn't win many of these trades and the GM would be the villain of Leafs nation but at this point there is something culturally rotten with this team and the only way to fix it is to tear it down and build anew...no shortcuts, don't care if we get the absolute best player in the world we stick to the plan and we rebuild every aspect of this organization...TML fans deserve at least that much commitment as we are a patient bunch as long as we know a plan is in place and that the powers that be will stick to the plan regardless
also for the love of all that is good stick to an internal cap if guys don't want to then move them it really is long overdue to put the logo on the front ahead of the plate on the back of the jersey for this team...stop being the players friends, they aren't going to work for you so why bother playing nice with them...they're all mercenaries and treat them as such until they prove otherwise
 
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I would trade Marner first. Move him for help on D or for a top 6 winger who plays a physical game (Matthew Tkachuk) or just take a chance on Eichel.

Fire Malhotra ASAP. I don't know if he's still in charge of special teams or what, but the team has only gotten worse with his arrival. There's too much talent to not be scoring. 1 goal and it was HORRIBLE.

Top line needs to be Matthews/Nylander, I'd move JT to line 3 at this point. He looks awful right now and it's arguably a top 5 worst contract in the league at this moment, he's been that irrelevant.
 
Trade Mathews Marner for Young D. If we still suck Mathews may well leave when his contract expires. Why hang around and waste your career with a bubble team at best. May as well head home. Marner will be next ti useles without Mathews. Keep Willie and JT. Get rid of Dubas and Keefe.
 
Take Reilly off the power play. He is useless. Terrible point man, doesn't shoot, only looks to pass.

And I hate that dropped pass, it never works.
 
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BigGulpsEh said:
Not too many postets have mentioned shanny. He should be the first to get the boot.


Then dubas
Click to expand...
Thats cuz I'm taking Shanny's job in my post


Pi said:
Just because Marner is a greedy f*** doesn't mean Babcock is any less of a shitbag himself. That guy is so full of himself for having accomplished absolutely jack shit without stacked rosters.
Click to expand...
matthews tavares nylander rielly is pretty stacked.

Babcock wouldn't have sat around quietly while losing Hyman for half of what Marner makes despite being so much better on the ice.
 
hockeynorth said:
This conversation is going on in at least a half-dozen threads right now, so if you could control the leafs, what would you do? This means you can be Keefe, Shanahan, Dubas, Tanenbaum, or even just Auston Matthews or Jason Spezza, what would you do?

Personally, I'd be Shanahan and take control at this point. Try and right this ship, show I'm pissed off, give it to the end of the week and if they don't look drastically better:
- JT loses his C
- I make it known I'm making changes to the core
- Keefe and Dubas follow my plan to a tee, or they're out

And I'll add to this, I love Keefe and Dubas but Shanahan needs to do something here
Click to expand...

What's the plan that is to be followed to a T?
 
Marner would play on 4th line and kill penalties until he lost weight znd regained quickness.
Ritchie goes to third line with JT.
Matthews, Nylander, Ho Sang is 1st line.
Reilly to 3rd pair with Dermott.
Rich Clune to 4th line.
Have a skating contest among all players eccept big 4 and last person gets put on waivers. 2 weeks from now someone else is going so you better decide if playing hockey is number one in your life.
The next time Keefe stares at the replay screen after a play and isn't talking to his players he is fired. The first player to ignore him is in the press box, at the end of the period.
The only player available for 2 weeks to the press is Clune, Muzzin, Campbell.
I will pay the fine.
In 14 days decide the poison on this team and begin a rebuild, Dubas?, Keefe?, Marner, whoever....
 
If I'm Brendan Shanahan I'm marching into that locker room and ripping this team a new A**hole. I dont know how hands on or vocal hes been with the players up till now but he is among the all time greats who played a hard nosed game. Do not coddle these superstars anymore and strip every little bit of entitlement and attitude out of them. Shanny is 26th on the all time pts list and 14th in goals as well as being tough as nails. If they don't want to listen to what he has to say then gtfo. You either start playing hard and play playoff hockey like Keefe has been trying to instill in them or you're gone.

This team has some serious character flaws and might need a Derozan kind of shake up. Start with Rielly since he is gonna be gone anyway and move Marner.
 
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hockeynorth said:
This conversation is going on in at least a half-dozen threads right now, so if you could control the leafs, what would you do? This means you can be Keefe, Shanahan, Dubas, Tanenbaum, or even just Auston Matthews or Jason Spezza, what would you do?

Personally, I'd be Shanahan and take control at this point. Try and right this ship, show I'm pissed off, give it to the end of the week and if they don't look drastically better:
- JT loses his C
- I make it known I'm making changes to the core
- Keefe and Dubas follow my plan to a tee, or they're out

And I'll add to this, I love Keefe and Dubas but Shanahan needs to do something here
Click to expand...


Shanahan: I would see what’s out there on the Nylander front. I believe he could fetch quite a return and send a big enough shockwave through the room that you’ll at least see what you have in the others. Can’t force a bad trade though. No more Coliacovo and Steen for Stempniak.
 
I would ask myself is this team good enough to win the cup or go deep in the playoffs?

Answer No!

Why?
  • Defense not good enough
  • Core players on the roster haven't shown they can get it done
  • Goalie tandem played all of 34 games in total last season (Campbell + Mrazek)
  • Rookie coach
  • New additions to the roster: Bunting, Kase, Ritchie, Kampf do not have any history of producing when the going gets tough. No evidence that the depth will pan out
  • More importantly! -> Mentally fragile group especially the core group who is also taking leadership role. Mentally fragile leadership is not a recipe for success or cup runs.

I would wait this season out hope that some players rebound so there is value attached to them before I look for trades and then I will re-tool/re-structure and if needed do another rebuild -> properly this time. No JT types signing.

I would also ideally have an honest chat with the likes of Matthews and Nylander on their future plans on whether or not they would like to stay. If not then I would work with them to hopefully be in a win-win situation where my club and the traded player both get value.

I would treat the Tavares years as forgone years to start retooling and would not look to add significantly until Tavares is off the cap
 
Niagara Bill said:
Marner would play on 4th line and kill penalties until he lost weight znd regained quickness.
Ritchie goes to third line with JT.
Matthews, Nylander, Ho Sang is 1st line.
Reilly to 3rd pair with Dermott.
Rich Clune to 4th line.
Have a skating contest among all players eccept big 4 and last person gets put on waivers. 2 weeks from now someone else is going so you better decide if playing hockey is number one in your life.
The next time Keefe stares at the replay screen after a play and isn't talking to his players he is fired. The first player to ignore him is in the press box, at the end of the period.
The only player available for 2 weeks to the press is Clune, Muzzin, Campbell.
I will pay the fine.
In 14 days decide the poison on this team and begin a rebuild, Dubas?, Keefe?, Marner, whoever....
Click to expand...

listen I am no fan of the way the team is constructed but GD takes like this is why we get laughed at on here...really my dude you're gonna fix all sickness in 14 days...considering thats maybe 4 games...someone sign this man up for an NHL contract...he apparently has the 6th sense
 
I would start at the top. Fire Shanny. I get the feeling he is disinterested and that runs all the way down in the organization.
I would hire Mark Messier. He is leader got a name with would go well in this market and is very no nonsense. When he walks in the room everyone would be on notice the evaluations are to begin. If Mark wants a challenge what better than this.
His mandate would be to hire the best and win. No more minor league coaches or rookies at any position in management. It seems to me Dubas hiring in management are people who not a threat to himself or Keefe
 
I said it earlier and it's also realistic. Something that can happen instantly. Move Tavares to wing for a matthews / JT pair. Move Nylander to C and let the two dynamic forwards run and gun like Aho/TT. Look at the worlds. Nylander thrives off that.

I think Tavares game compliments Matthews more than Marner. Tavares can also clean up Matthews rebounds. In theory he should be better than Hyman at that too.
 
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beleaf101 said:
I would start at the top. Fire Shanny. I get the feeling he is disinterested and that runs all the way down in the organization.
I would hire Mark Messier. He is leader got a name with would go well in this market and is very no nonsense. When he walks in the room everyone would be on notice the evaluations are to begin. If Mark wants a challenge what better than this.
His mandate would be to hire the best and win. No more minor league coaches or rookies at any position in management. It seems to me Dubas hiring in management are people who not a threat to himself or Keefe
Click to expand...

Messier would be a rookie, no? What has he been doing? Any front office experience?

Would this not be repeating Shanahan all over again?
 
I'll start with context, my favourite leafs were when we had Corson, Tucker, Green and others out their playing every shift with their eyes bugging out and driving the other team crazy. I think this is the type of team that can be successful in the Toronto market. You still need some skills guys like those teams had Sundin, Mogilny, but every player to a man on those teams would carve out an eye to win.

So in that vein, I would try to unload Mitch and JT, who I don't think can ever develop that edge. AM and Willie I think if surrounded by the right types can be.

There also needs to be a fundamental shift in pro and amateur scouting to reinforce these types of players. It always confounds me when teams like Pittsburgh have lots of injuries and this wave of guys come in who play hard every shift. When we have injuries these waterbugs like Malgin, Petan, etc come in. This has been driven by what we value, trading Marchment for Malgin is a great example.

We could have had close to a team like this, but we placed value on the wrong guys, combining old and new, this would be the type of forward group that I think would lead to more balanced success.

Hyman - AM - Willie
Brown - 2C (JT/MM Money) - 2RW (JT/MM Money)
Bunting - Kadri - Kapanen
Marchment - Spezza - Kase

On D, I think Reilly, Brodie, Muzz and Sandin are ok, but you need to replace the other 2 with size and speed.
 
beleaf101 said:
I would start at the top. Fire Shanny. I get the feeling he is disinterested and that runs all the way down in the organization.
I would hire Mark Messier. He is leader got a name with would go well in this market and is very no nonsense. When he walks in the room everyone would be on notice the evaluations are to begin. If Mark wants a challenge what better than this.
His mandate would be to hire the best and win. No more minor league coaches or rookies at any position in management. It seems to me Dubas hiring in management are people who not a threat to himself or Keefe
Click to expand...


I'd take Mess as Prez with the stipulation that if players like Marner and Matthews don't start showing some heart, they have to go into the corners with Messier during practice. That should scare them into performing.
 
Folignos Helmet said:
I'll start with context, my favourite leafs were when we had Corson, Tucker, Green and others out their playing every shift with their eyes bugging out and driving the other team crazy. I think this is the type of team that can be successful in the Toronto market. You still need some skills guys like those teams had Sundin, Mogilny, but every player to a man on those teams would carve out an eye to win.

So in that vein, I would try to unload Mitch and JT, who I don't think can ever develop that edge. AM and Willie I think if surrounded by the right types can be.

There also needs to be a fundamental shift in pro and amateur scouting to reinforce these types of players. It always confounds me when teams like Pittsburgh have lots of injuries and this wave of guys come in who play hard every shift. When we have injuries these waterbugs like Malgin, Petan, etc come in. This has been driven by what we value, trading Marchment for Malgin is a great example.

We could have had close to a team like this, but we placed value on the wrong guys, combining old and new, this would be the type of forward group that I think would lead to more balanced success.

Hyman - AM - Willie
Brown - 2C (JT/MM Money) - 2RW (JT/MM Money)
Bunting - Kadri - Kapanen
Marchment - Spezza - Kase

On D, I think Reilly, Brodie, Muzz and Sandin are ok, but you need to replace the other 2 with size and speed.
Click to expand...

When you start to actually make rosters you begin to see the dilemma.

If Marner and Tavares end up clicking on the second line it's lights out. They'll be away from first line defence and rack up their 90 points again. The rest of those guys wouldn't even be worth 20% of JT/Marner clicking on the second line.

Therefore, you can't unload these two without a plan and if that plan doesn't go exactly as planned, they stay.

You can't leave hypothetical (JT/MM money) in your roster after they're gone. These two spots need to be 100% locks if you trade them otherwise we will have to tank to complete our top 6. We got lucky with how quick the trio took off too....so it might be another 2-5 years before the top 6 is beast and suddenly Nylander is 31.

So for example a Marner trade should bring back an Eklund from the Sharks. Or find a team who wants to 1 for 1 swap young stars who need a change of scenery.

If Marner is being traded just so we have cap room to play with we already lost even worse than we're losing right now. It will be nothing but overpaid bandaids until they realize they need to tank.
 
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Fire Shanahan and Dubas day one and bring in a President and GM with experience.

Instruct the new GM to dismantle the core forwards(except Nylander) while resigning Reilly for 5x9.75 or something similar, hopefully not for more than five years. Not that I like him that much but he seems to be more genuine than the rest and we need to hit the cap floor - not to mention we really have no d prospects that have a hope of being top pair d so he's not gonna be in the way. The instructions for dismantling the core would be specific - we must obtain at least one roster player between 22 and 25 and at least one pick and at least one prospect. Minimum two right handed defenseman and two centers coming back in total for Matthews+Tavares+Marner. Retain on Tavares as needed. The players brought in will at minimum have 125 games played, decent potential for growth, skate well and play hard. No perimeter players. Also on the chopping block would be Muzzin, Holl, Dermott, Engval and Micheyev. Might get something decent in return for these five. Emphasis on center prospects.

This will change the culture of the team over night.

Run a forward group of Nylander, Kerfoot, Kase, Bunting, Kampf, Spezza, Simmonds, Ritchie and Amadio plus the new players brought in.

Run a defense of Reilly, Brodie, Sandin and Liljegren plus the new players brought in.
 
Havoc said:
When you start to actually make rosters you begin to see the dilemma.

If Marner and Tavares end up clicking on the second line it's lights out. They'll be away from first line defence and rack up their 90 points again. The rest of those guys wouldn't even be worth 20% of JT/Marner clicking on the second line.

Therefore, you can't unload these two without a plan and if that plan doesn't go exactly as planned, they stay.

You can't leave hypothetical (JT/MM money) in your roster after they're gone. These two spots need to be 100% locks if you trade them otherwise we will have to tank to complete our top 6. We got lucky with how quick the trio took off too....so it might be another 2-5 years before the top 6 is beast and suddenly Nylander is 31.

So for example a Marner trade should bring back an Eklund from the Sharks. Or find a team who wants to 1 for 1 swap young stars who need a change of scenery.

If Marner is being traded just so we have cap room to play with we already lost even worse than we're losing right now. It will be nothing but overpaid bandaids until they realize they need to tank.
Click to expand...
If Dubas is fired this will be the major interview question. They will have to give out their detailed strategy for handling Mitch Marner. If they mess up the Marner trade we are screwed for years. People are too busy glorifying depth right now thinking it's the answer when all they're doing is building a weaker Montreal Canadiens then inserting Matthews and Nylander into it.
 
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