Nucklehead Supreme
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- Jul 10, 2011
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Proposal: If Vancouver was going to Rebuild (Proposals)
- Thread starter zcaptain
- Start date
I would hope the Boston deal is not close , AS a matter of fact it should be dead on arrival .
Faber is solid but wasn't LAs 1st or 2nd best prospect. Vaks was not considered a special prospect at the time of the trade, more of a reclamation project.
The time to rebuild was when Rutherford/Allvin took over. We have 5 tiers of players in my mind, not counting prospects like Lekkerimakki, Klimovich, Lockwood, Karlsson, Johansson and even Rathbone, Woo and Silovs.
The "take what you can get, even cap dumps on shorter contracts" tier of players:
Myers, OEL, Pearson, Dermott (LTIR), Poolman (LTIR), Stillman, Ferland (LTIR)
The "if we get a decent/reasonable (2nd+young roster player/prospect+) return" tier of players:
Boeser, Miller(+), Garland(+), Schenn, Hoglander
The "if we get a good return (1st+good prospect) if they're intent on not resigning" tier of players:
Horvat, Kuzmenko
The "it will take a colossal haul of just the right pieces" tier of players:
Pettersson, Hughes, Demko
And the "might as well keep them unless the return is heavily weighted in our favor because of their cheap contracts and/or new status on the team" or "wildcard" tier of players:
Bear, Burroughs, Lazar, Joshua, Studnicka, Aman, Podkolzin, Mikheyev (fresh UFA signing status only), Martin
These guys are worth next to nothing, but simply won't get us enough back to merit the logistics of replacing them at present/future cap hits. That or they're new additions to the team as UFA and would be a bad look. Take a crack if someone really gets you excited though.
Assuming we are focused exclusively on futures, anyone have a proposal for a piece they like?
(Kerfoot, Holl and Engvall need not apply)
The "take what you can get, even cap dumps on shorter contracts" tier of players:
Myers, OEL, Pearson, Dermott (LTIR), Poolman (LTIR), Stillman, Ferland (LTIR)
The "if we get a decent/reasonable (2nd+young roster player/prospect+) return" tier of players:
Boeser, Miller(+), Garland(+), Schenn, Hoglander
The "if we get a good return (1st+good prospect) if they're intent on not resigning" tier of players:
Horvat, Kuzmenko
The "it will take a colossal haul of just the right pieces" tier of players:
Pettersson, Hughes, Demko
And the "might as well keep them unless the return is heavily weighted in our favor because of their cheap contracts and/or new status on the team" or "wildcard" tier of players:
Bear, Burroughs, Lazar, Joshua, Studnicka, Aman, Podkolzin, Mikheyev (fresh UFA signing status only), Martin
These guys are worth next to nothing, but simply won't get us enough back to merit the logistics of replacing them at present/future cap hits. That or they're new additions to the team as UFA and would be a bad look. Take a crack if someone really gets you excited though.
Assuming we are focused exclusively on futures, anyone have a proposal for a piece they like?
(Kerfoot, Holl and Engvall need not apply)
Realistically, the only guys you’ll trade above, this season, are Horvat and Schenn. Add Kuzmenko if your GM is desperate and doesn’t want to compete for UFAs in the future.
In the offseason, add Garland.
Most of those other guys you mention are untradable above your untouchables tier.
Hoglander is his own thing and easily tradable in what I assume would be a stalled prospect swap.
I think Kuz gets us a 1st and maybe a later round pick like a 3rd or 4th, but definitely not 2 really good assets. HIs healthy scratch may also have to do with BB giving management the middle finger a bit IMO.
It will largely depend on his production leading up to TDL.
Yeah, Garland and Hoglander and Podkolzin have all been sat too, usually coming off a good game. Pearson's also been scratched, but with no other correlation then coaching shaking things up.
A first+ is the price I'd expect, otherwise...why bother? Kuzmenko will have a better effect on the team going forward then any likely outcome of a second round pick, and he's 26 so it's not like he's some dinosaur. If he keeps his production up amongst all the other changes too...I might say keep him anyway.
I think if we can re-sign Kuzmenko, we do it. HIs chemistry with EP is undeniable and would go a long way to EP signing long term as well. We should only trade him IF he makes it apparent that he does not want to remain a Canuck after this season.
Rangers may find Podkolzin a worthwhile experiment as he seems to be a good fit at the right price. Another scoring W -- which he may/may not be/be anytime soon -- is useful, and I could see him and Krav benefiting from same team/lines.
I haven't got this fully worked out and that VAN has zero cap is a prob
also NY does not have lots of cap available
but that not yet withstanding, my thinking is
SOMETHING LIKE;
Lauri Pajuniemi, RW, 2018 5th rounder, 6'0, 196
Adam Sykora, W, 2022 2nd rounder, 5'11, 172
BMB (Bryce McConnell-Barker), C, 2022 3rd rounder, 6'1, 194
Noah Laba, C, 2022 4th rounder, 6'2" 190
for
Podkolzin former 10OA, W, 6'1, 190, 2 yrs elc rem
VAN 2023 2nd + NYR 4th returned
this is a bit of a crapshoot, but while a small sample size, Laba got noticed this wk on a Rangers broadcast for 10 pts in 10 games. Sykora + BMB, drafter earlier, obv more highly rated. LP has shown flashes but not enuf to break thru but w/Rangers depth chart, that's understandable.
basically, this is youth for youth
Rangers would gamble they have enuf prospects they can overpay to consolidate upside, and that Pod will be worth it and they can replace existing prospects w/two 2023 picks.
VAN would be getting LP for now and get 3 good bodies for the future.
I expect others will call for higher assets immediately useful, but I think this is better a year-ish down the road. 'nucks took a coupla shots over recent years, and this replenishment of prospect pool makes sense.
Curious as to how to make this work cap wise...
Eggtimer
Registered User
If I was VanC I’d say no thanks. Bunch of dime a dozen players that every organization has for a former first rounder that is young enough yet to become much more than he currently is.
Yeah, I don't really see any reason for Vancouver to do this.
Podkolzin is worth more to us then a series of recent picks taken well after where we got Pod, and including additional draft picks (the earlier of which is worth more then any player returning to a rebuilding team, given this year's draft depth) just doesn't give us an incentive to move him. He is included in with a group of lesser players, but the principle I had used for doing it was that it would not make sense to pay the amount for these players that would be required to move them.
Podkolzin, due to sunk asset thinking (he was a 10th overall pick a few drafts ago), as well as his ELC, makes him incredibly valuable to us, so acquiring him would hurt in a way I know no one in their right mind would want to pay. Like to the degree of most fans throwing jerseys and merchandise on the ice at the next home game after the trade.
Speak to Chicago about the bolded, but in a time when the Canucks may need to sell the idea of a rebuild, this is not the trade to do it.
The opposite would work better, I could list some down the depth charts fringe prospects we have, and you could throw us Kravtsov and some picks?
Pod is worth roll of dice for both -- VAN keeping, NY acquiring.
I would not crazy overpay and I disagree w/assessment the guys I mentioned currently are 'fringe' other than Pajunemi.
That assessment may go up or down over next yr or 2, but while not elite like, say Othmann, they are high enuf not to be chopped liver.
NY's interest is to develop Krav, not move him.
He is obv not untouchable, but we have balance, nor surplus of prospects
so re reciprocal counter proposal, opposite does not work for NY
Can afford to lose literally a couple, but not large # like win now crowd seeks; howev, we don't need extra surplus of prospects on top of current surplus.
re: Chicago -- do not get the reference, per CF VAN owns this pick
---------
There is 1 other view here
Instead of multiple prospects for single prospect, Rangers could do something around young vet Lindgren
for
Pod
that gives young immediate D help not expiring for potential, and works for NY b'c soon, if we are unable to move Trouba or Panarin as appears to be the case, we are going to have to squeeze to extend our core youth.
Howev 'nucks have no cap room
And consideration needs to be given to instead Lindgren + to Ana for Vatrano +, with Ducks paid somebody like Jones to take cap back
Peter Griffin
Registered User
Fine.
I expect Pod. to emerge, but I also expect 3 Ranger prospects to show value over same next 2-3 years. It is only b'c Pod is more immediately ready I consider a deal.
At the end of the day, we will see if I am right.
That’s a lot of low value stuff from NYRs. Why would any team engage to acquire a bunch of lower tier prospects.
Mal Reynolds
never goes smooth, how come it never goes smooth?
- Sep 28, 2008
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Yeah, I don't think VAN moves Podkolzin for anything less than the bluest of blue chips
Off to a slow start, sure, but the fanbase likes him and he brings a pretty useful skillset
Off to a slow start, sure, but the fanbase likes him and he brings a pretty useful skillset
Tufted Titmouse
13 Cups.
- Apr 5, 2022
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Did you read my initial post?
Laba, a 4th less regarded than a 2nd + 3rd, was noted as 10 pts in 10 games or something like that.
While we should not make more or less of those pieces than what they actually are, they are not low value except the throw in Pajuneimi
and to answer your question, after correcting that same, while not elte, are not "lower tier" the answer is depth.
Pod may or may not break out
This type of deal helps reverse win now rental binges adding youth
Mal Reynolds
never goes smooth, how come it never goes smooth?
- Sep 28, 2008
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GirardSpinorama
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Martin Skoula
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- Oct 18, 2017
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Lol. Imagine tanking an entire season for a top 2 pick just to get a guy who can't hit PPG or play defense.
Szechwan
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- Sep 13, 2006
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Nah, that's quantity for quality, bet it worked pretty well in NHL 23 though.
I know Vancouver games happen after your bedtime, so I'll just assume this is a troll post - Petey has pretty good 2-way numbers and is currently 12th in league scoring (just ahead of this Marner guy, whoever that is).
