Speculation: IF the Leafs don’t look legit

[ACC1224]

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Photo evidence of the Leafs looking legit.

Shouldn't that go in the soft thread?

 

[notDatsyuk]

Overtime losses aren't included in winning percentage.

It's great they get an extra point for losing in overtime. Good on them for that. But using points percentage only obfuscates their actual won-loss record.

Which at 21-21, or .500 if you prefer, wasn't very good after 42 games played last year.

Since you get a point, it is included in winning %. That's why it was .610, not .500 half way through the season.

I hate the fact that some games are worth 3 points and some only 2, but that is the way it is done, and ignoring the facts doesn't change anything. I agree it wasn't a very good record, but let's not pretend it was something it wasn't.

Marner and Nylander are not generational players. As for legends row, I suggest this picture of the 3 of them for their statues.

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I think he was being sarcastic.

I hope he was being sarcastic.

 

[Nineteen67]

Marner and Nylander are not generational players. As for legends row, I suggest this picture of the 3 of them for their statues.

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Matthews quit for a few days right after that and Willy didn’t play the first few games.

They played like gangbusters trying to score that 70th goal. I often wonder if they overextended themselves and couldnt get motivated for the playoffs.

 

[Fogelhund]

Overtime losses aren't included in winning percentage.

It's great they get an extra point for losing in overtime. Good on them for that. But using points percentage only obfuscates their actual won-loss record.

Which at 21-21, or .500 if you prefer, wasn't very good after 42 games played last year.

The league tracks by points. All that matters is points.

They had 50 points after 41 games... which is half way. 42 games is not half of the season.

They were 12th in the standings, which still isn't very good. But given the injuries, not terrible either.

 

[robertmac43]

Would trade Marner, wouldn't trade Tavares.

JT likely gets less in a trade. My guess is he also comes back the next year on a much more cost-effective contract.

 

[Nineteen67]

The league tracks by points. All that matters is points.

They had 50 points after 41 games... which is half way. 42 games is not half of the season.

They were 12th in the standings, which still isn't very good. But given the injuries, not terrible either.

And teams play for OT and take their chances at 3 on 3. That’s why points are no indication of which team will win in the playoffs. The Leafs are a prime example.

 

[colchar]

In a scenario where the Leafs do not look like a true contender on the ice and place third in the Atlantic, do you keep Tavares and Marner as own rentals or trade them away?

What part of no movement clause do you not understand?

 

[conFABulator]

It's hard to imagine getting great value at the deadline for either of those guys to make the case we are better to move them out.

I mean, if we are way out of the playoffs then yes, trade Marner for anything. What value do we get for him if we are sucking and he has shown no playoff pedigree ever.

We eat 50% and hope for a 1st from a contender (that has room)? It's hard to see this working.

A) we won't be that far out.
B) if we are, Marner will not be seen as a key piece for a contender
C) it's a bit salary, even with retention and contenders tend to not have space (maybe someone put someone big on LTIR)
D) what do contenders have to offer of value? A very late first?

Ok, maybe Eichel gets hurt and Vegas wants Marner and has the space because of LTIR. Even then, how much do they have left to give?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

They were 21-21 at the halfway mark last year.

When do they decide to pull the trigger. How far down the rabbit hole do they need to go. If they aren't better than a .500 team halfway through this season heads should be rolling.

Not just the coach either.

There's already a crisis of confidence among fans. The team regularly comes in bottom of league polls. Expecting the greatest fan base in the world to continue accepting mediocrity at this point is unbridled arrogance.

Boo Marner and strip Tavares of the C.

Both those guys can pound pavement if they lose in the first round again. And if they aren't even in a playoffs position by the halfway point the entire front office should be hitting the bricks with them. Up til now regular season success has been the only things fans have had to cheer for.

If they don't even have that this year what do they expect fans to do.

The coach just got a 4 year what? 2 months ago? he's not going anywhere

 

[Fogelhund]

And teams play for OT and take their chances at 3 on 3. That’s why points are no indication of which team will win in the playoffs. The Leafs are a prime example.

I'm not sure the point you are trying to make... regular season records are no indication of likely playoff results? Ok.. ya...


The premise that we will be so far out of the playoffs, that we will be sellers is ridiculous though. Barring injuries to everyone, we will make the playoffs....

 

[EK392000]

What part of no movement clause do you not understand?

Players with NMCs have been moved before. Tavares is unlikely but Marner may waive it to go to a team that wants to re-sign him. Will likely get more money over 8 years than he would over 7.

 

[TMLBlueandWhite]

Since you get a point, it is included in winning %. That's why it was .610, not .500 half way through the season.

I hate the fact that some games are worth 3 points and some only 2, but that is the way it is done, and ignoring the facts doesn't change anything. I agree it wasn't a very good record, but let's not pretend it was something it wasn't.

You're just putting lipstick on a pig.

Winning percentage and points percentage are two very different things. You can try dress it up by saying they got a point in overtime. But at the end of the day 21 wins in 42 games is a .500 record.

And it stinks just like the pig you're trying to sell kisses with at the county fair.

 

[Ianturnedbull]

I don't see how losing Marner/Tavares is just a win/win for TOR. It's complex.

I think fans think that if they're both gone in 2025, that it will be a EA Sports nhl Manager Mode Christmas.

It would be nice to have more middle class players, but playing the UFA market is tricky.

 

[notDatsyuk]

You're just putting lipstick on a pig.

Winning percentage and points percentage are two very different things. You can try dress it up by saying they got a point in overtime. But at the end of the day 21 wins in 42 games is a .500 record.

And it stinks just like the pig you're trying to sell kisses with at the county fair.

You're just being wilfully blind to reality.

I know you like to be hypercritical of the Leafs, but there are enough real things to complain about.

 

[Aashir]

if by the TDL we suck I'd look to see if we could convince marner to be dealt and then deal Marner@50% retained for a 1st+Prospect

if he's not signed by the deadline, i'd deal him as losing him for nothing is next level idiocy

 

[ULF_55]

What part of no movement clause do you not understand?

I think it is today's youth who had parents that never used the word 'no'.

 

[ULF_55]

You're just putting lipstick on a pig.

Winning percentage and points percentage are two very different things. You can try dress it up by saying they got a point in overtime. But at the end of the day 21 wins in 42 games is a .500 record.

And it stinks just like the pig you're trying to sell kisses with at the county fair.

In baseball yep where there are only wins and losses.

Hockey over 100 years ago limited overtime to 20 minutes.

Hockey <> Baseball

 

[ULF_55]

I don't see how losing Marner/Tavares is just a win/win for TOR. It's complex.

I think fans think that if they're both gone in 2025, that it will be a EA Sports nhl Manager Mode Christmas.

It would be nice to have more middle class players, but playing the UFA market is tricky.

I expect both the finish the season and re-sign regardless of outcome.

Tavares has a tax bill to pay.
marner likely retires a Leaf in about 10 years.

 

[notdoneyet]

Marner and Nylander are not generational players. As for legends row, I suggest this picture of the 3 of them for their statues.

View attachment 899614

If you are going to point fingers let your agenda go
It’s been proven that matthews and marner set up a play and Willy didn’t like it and told them both on the bench this is not junior.

Stop blaming marner for everything
It’s not a good look for someone with as many posts as you have

 

[Leafs87]

Their plan is to keep the cash flowing and it is working

I have heard lately they have not been selling out for the first time in decades. Maybe they need to start viewing this operation more like every other team does. The turn key, ice any piece of shit and the team will sell out days are kind of leaving. The new generation isn’t as loyal.

 

[Nineteen67]

I'm not sure the point you are trying to make... regular season records are no indication of likely playoff results? Ok.. ya...


The premise that we will be so far out of the playoffs, that we will be sellers is ridiculous though. Barring injuries to everyone, we will make the playoffs....

The OP didn’t say it’s about being out of the playoff picture, it’s whether they look legit.

They’ve managed to make the playoffs all but the play in season but they’ve never look like legit contenders, so it’s a valid question.

 

[Fogelhund]

The OP didn’t say it’s about being out of the playoff picture, it’s whether they look legit.

They’ve managed to make the playoffs all but the play in season but they’ve never look like legit contenders, so it’s a valid question.

In which case, neither wins, nor points really matters... just style points... how they look getting there... and we all know, despite putting up as many points as any Leafs team has in history, they really don't look like a team committed to the winning process on a consistent basis.

 

[ULF_55]

In which case, neither wins, nor points really matters... just style points... how they look getting there... and we all know, despite putting up as many points as any Leafs team has in history, they really don't look like a team committed to the winning process on a consistent basis.

Like driving the highway on a sunny day in the summer and you see water on the road a kilometer ahead and then it is a kilometer ahead after 10 minutes and then it is still a kilometer ahead.

 

[HockeyVirus]

This team has shown themselves to be slow starters. Think 2-3 seasons in a row now they looked terrible the first 10 games and everyone was saying we were done and missing playoffs then we get hot.

If we haven't found our stride in being consistent game in and out by end of Jan I am not buying anything expensive and open to moving core pieces

 

[Fogelhund]

and open to moving core pieces

Most of the fan base has been open to this for at least a season or two... some much longer... and yet, here we are....