The problem with this though is that you're jumping to the conclusion that Crosby is already better than Guy or Stevie overall when the reality is that he has only been better through his first 5 or so years.
I'm not saying Crosby doesn't have a chance at passing Stevie and Guy when all is said and done but beating their first 5 years is a whole lot easier than beating their next 5.
Also as good as both Crosby and OV have been so far, I don't feel either of them has matched Bossy's first 5 seasons.So really, they're already falling behind in any bid to crack the all mighty top 4 all time.
...and don't you dare try and tell me that it was easier for Bossy to score back then either. That guy took more punishment in a single season than any player would receive in 10 seasons in "today's" NHL.
Heh, Bossy in today's much more slot friendly NHL combined with a composite stick...forget about it! You could easily tack another 10 seasons on to his career to boot.
Pardon me? Sorry, Crosby and Ovechkin have had better first 5 seasons than Bossy, it shouldn't be much of a question. It just shouldn't be at all.
Oh hey it's Hardy, back from the corner he pinned himself in...no wait, he's still in that corner, he just chose to ignore those points and move on to others
Anyway, imo it's disrespectful to flat out say those guys wouldn't dominate today, as unlike most of your theories, they have real evidence backing them.
You really have to get off this "dropping" Mario and Gretzky into the league today directly from 1988 wearing the same equipment.
If they played today they would have the exact same modern benefits that Crosby and OV had and like the point I cornered you quite soundly on earlier, in your own words modern coaching, training, medical and equipment makes players better so therefore Gretzky and Lemieux would be EVEN better today than they were.
Dude, your mind is as closed as anyone's in this thread, prolly more so. Hell, even Infinite and I came to a reasonable understanding.
No I'd say he's one of the most open minded posters I've seen debate on these boards, he actually considers all factors in his judgement of all players. Seems like you are the closed minded one defending rather than seeking to find the truth.
Again with the raw point total reduction
Been said many times now, if Gretzky gets 150-170 today and the next highest only gets 110-120, is that really any different in terms of dominance than 200-150...no, it really isn't.
Also again, out of the 1000's upon 1000's of players over the last 40+ years, only a mere 3 total have stood out far above the rest.
Is it so hard to believe/understand that these 3 players were just so damned good that it wouldn't matter what era they were brought up in and that the odds are very much in favour that Crosby, while very good, is prolly not one of these players.
Yes and during the times they stood out the league was also higher scoring, and not as deep with overall talent, especially defense and goaltending, the point you still seem not to be getting. You say if Gretzky gets 150-170 today like it's a sure thing. Based on the amount of talent and parity and degrees of seperation between players statistically in terms of percentages in today's NHL, and assuming Gretzky would adapt to all the changes and be just as good as he was in his time relative to the current day NHL, he still wouldn't get more than 150 points!
That's what I truly believe and I haven't heard any convincing arguments on how he would dominate the same way today other than,
you weren't there to see him play and anyone who watched them knows they would dominate to the same degree today, possibly even more without the no two-line pass rule!
Yeah sorry I think video evidence and statistical evidence shows it's quite clear they wouldn't dominate to the same extent today.
My prediction of Gretzky scoring between 100-120 points today is also based on the fact that I don't think his style, his natural talent, would be able to be as much of a benefit to a prime Gretzky in today's game with the faster paced game and limited time and space. For the record I've seen over 40 Gretzky games from start to finish. I watch closely as well.
I think prime Lemieux would suit today's league better, so I think prime Lemieux could score anywhere between 130-150 points depending on the year. This is just opinion based on his style and physical skills. I still rate Gretzky higher all-time because he was better during the time they both played together.
However, if a player today can score over 140 points assuming everything remains relatively similar in terms of scoring in the NHL, on average and top players, then that player in my opinion is exhibiting the same level of dominance as Lemieux (if they can do it for a few seasons) and the same as Gretzky, if they can do it for multiple seasons in a row.
The one player capable of this in the league right now is Sidney Crosby. If he can do something like this while being the best faceoff and shootout guy in the league, and continue with his defensive game, then he's the best player ever.