If Mario doesn't miss 3 years is Ovechkin chasing him?

[dgibb10]

Lemieux had played 120 fewer games at that point as well. Their goals per game were near identical at that point. (0.83 vs 0.82). Because he continued to be a great goalscorer even with his physical limitations and time lost due to cancer, while Gretzky was not a goalscorer in the second half of his career (never topped 40 goals after 30, averaged 25 goals a season for his last 8 seasons), its reasonable to assume that without the setbacks that Lemieux passes him quite easily had he played anywhere near as many games.

And if Wayne doesn't hurt his back?

Wayne's issues allowed him to play, but at a diminished level.
Mario's issues didn't allow him to play, but did not impact him when he did.

Wayne was better at his peak, and Wayne stayed around long enough to accumulate more.

 

[Midnight Judges]

I’ll take .75 over .60 ( and DROPPING) Goals per game, any day of the week.

Ovi can have the goal record for a couple years until Matthews takes care of it. And when he does, Lemieux will still have been better.

No.

Lemieux played most of his games in the 80s and early 90s. It's a wildly different scoring environment than 2005-2020. Comparing their raw GPG is not equitable. Not remotely.

Adjusted GPG is more indicative and Ovie's was higher through 1200 games than Mario's was through 900 games.

And lol @ extrapolating for Matthews when he's not even half way there (368 career goals).

 

[Fire Sweeney]

Does Meryo Lemyou compile these stats without whining to the league and bending officiating to his favor?

 

[JPT]

Durability is a virtue in all professional sports.

Your assertions against that principle are not logical.

Nevermind your falsehoods: Lemieux sat out games, by choice.

This is what it looks like when homerism runs wild.

 

[bobholly39]

Not sure I understand which 3 years you're talking about specifically.

But Lemieux played 915 games. He also was nowhere near 100% in many of the years/games he played, with chronic back issues.

If your question is - with better health and no major injuries in his career - would Lemieux have over 894 goals? The answer is 100% yes - not even close. He'd also definitely be above 1000 goals.

Bossy has a good chance of being above 894 too - but a bit more unpredictable with him.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Guys, the player who has an argument here is Gordie Howe. Howe played 70 game seasons. How many goals does he have if it were 82 for his career?

Not Lemieux, not Bossy, not Gretzky, or any of the other players from the high scoring era.

This is what it looks like when homerism runs wild.

Yeah. Real life things that actually happened are highly overrated.

Your imaginary happenings are so much more important, eh? Amirite?

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Lemieux was about 100 goals behind gretzky at age 27 for both of them.

Why is there always this assumption that Lemieuix would have maintained peak performance into his 30s when basically nobody has, even Gretzky.

Because he did?

He came back at 35 and dominated with 76 points in 43 games

He followed that up with 31 points in 24 games.

And 91 points in 67 games.

Why would we not assume it?

 

[LivingRentFree]

Lemieux
Bossy
Ovi

Current top 3 of all time. Unfortunately/Unlucky for Ovi that he won’t even last a decade as top 3

Because he did?

He came back at 35 and dominated with 76 points in 43 games

He followed that up with 31 points in 24 games.

And 91 points in 67 games.

Why would we not assume it?

Not to mention when he came back, he DOMINATED the league in Goals per game. Wasn’t even close.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Because he did?

No he didn't.

 

[Khelandros]

Lemieux was about 100 goals behind gretzky at age 27 for both of them.

Why is there always this assumption that Lemieuix would have maintained peak performance into his 30s when basically nobody has, even Gretzky.

2000-01 was his 35 year old season with having missed the previous 3. That is pretty much a 70 goal pace.

2001-02 was his first injury season that limited his games, plus he sat out some to be ready for his only Olympic appearance. Still a 20 goal pace.

2002-03 led the league in scoring until March 5th, 2003, when he started to miss almost all of the Penguins final games. Had 28 goals, on pace for 34

2003-04 missed every game but 10 due to hip issues.

2005-06 Crosbys first season, Only played 26 games and was forced to retire due to the heart issue that was found. Still on pace for a 22 goal season. He was 40 years old.

I don't think his performance was an issue. It was the health that limited him.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Not sure I understand which 3 years you're talking about specifically.

But Lemieux played 915 games. He also was nowhere near 100% in many of the years/games he played, with chronic back issues.

If your question is - with better health and no major injuries in his career - would Lemieux have over 894 goals? The answer is 100% yes - not even close. He'd also definitely be above 1000 goals.

Bossy has a good chance of being above 894 too - but a bit more unpredictable with him.

What do you mean you don't understand?

He missed 3 years What's not to understand?

 

[bobholly39]

Isn't blatant trolling a bannable offense on this site?

Because I'm pretty sure I just saw a guy upthread compare Mario Lemieux to Patrick Marleau.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

No he didn't.

The 3 seasons after his return he put up 76 points in 43 games.

31 points in 24 games

91 points in 67 games.

The numbers say you are wrong.

Get educated

 

[bobholly39]

What do you mean you don't understand?

He missed 3 years What's not to understand?

Don't even know which 3 years you mean. He missed a ton of time.

1990 - 59 games, not 100%, back issues
1991 - 26 games, not 100%, back issues
1992 - 64 games, same
1993 - 60 games, cancer
1994 - 22 games
1995 - 0 games, shortened season
1998, 1999, 2000, did not play
2001 - returned mid-way, only 43 games played
2002 - only 24 games played
2004 - only 10 games played
2006 - only 26 games played

How you look at this career and say "he missed 3 years" and expect people to know what you mean, I don't understand. He missed a hell of a lot more than 3 years - and also had major injuries in many of the years/games he played.

 

[Randy Butternubs]

Lemieux also had crippling back issues.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Isn't blatant trolling a bannable offense on this site?

Because I'm pretty sure I just saw a guy upthread compare Mario Lemieux to Patrick Marleau.

Patrick Marleau has more career adjusted goals than Mario Lemieux.

That's just a basic metric. No need to get emotional.

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Alex Ovechkin (954), 2. Gordie Howe (925), 3. Jaromír Jágr (841), 4. Wayne Gretzky (758), 5. Teemu Selänne (741), 6. Brett Hull (738), 7. Jarome Iginla (706), 8. Brendan Shanahan (672), 9. Phil Esposito (671), 10. Sidney Crosby (655)

www.hockey-reference.com

 

[Video Nasty]

No he doesn't. Gretzky had virtually every conceivable advantage. If Ovie played from 1979-1999, it would not be close between him and Gretzky.

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Alex Ovechkin (954), 2. Gordie Howe (925), 3. Jaromír Jágr (841), 4. Wayne Gretzky (758), 5. Teemu Selänne (741), 6. Brett Hull (738), 7. Jarome Iginla (706), 8. Brendan Shanahan (672), 9. Phil Esposito (671), 10. Sidney Crosby (655)

www.hockey-reference.com

We’ve been over this. I don’t put a lot of stock in flawed adjusted stats.

I can easily counter that if Ovechkin played in a different era, he likely would have led the league in goals less than nine times. He had little competition and he was fortunate that his main emerging threat, Stamkos, suffered what could be deemed as a trajectory altering injury of his own; after his rookie season, Stamkos ranked 1, 2, 1, 2 in goals and was 1st again in his sixth season before breaking his leg and never being the same again.

But like my disdain for the over-reliance on adjusted stats, I know that claiming Ovechkin enjoyed a time of weak goal scoring competition drives you up the wall, so what’s the point?

 

[LivingRentFree]

Don't even know which 3 years you mean. He missed a ton of time.

1990 - 59 games, not 100%, back issues
1991 - 26 games, not 100%, back issues
1992 - 64 games, same
1993 - 60 games, cancer
1994 - 22 games
1995 - 0 games, shortened season

2001 - returned mid-way, only 43 games played
2002 - only 24 games played
2004 - only 10 games played
2006 - only 26 games played

How you look at this career and say "he missed 3 years" and expect people to know what you mean, I don't understand. He missed a hell of a lot more than 3 years - and also had major injuries in many of the years/games he played.

I think he’s just trying to say that he missed 3 years straight. Not including all the other stuff Lemieux had to deal with/time missed

Patrick Marleau has more career adjusted goals than Mario Lemieux.

That's just a basic metric. No need to get emotional.

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Alex Ovechkin (954), 2. Gordie Howe (925), 3. Jaromír Jágr (841), 4. Wayne Gretzky (758), 5. Teemu Selänne (741), 6. Brett Hull (738), 7. Jarome Iginla (706), 8. Brendan Shanahan (672), 9. Phil Esposito (671), 10. Sidney Crosby (655)

www.hockey-reference.com

The only time Lemieux and Marleau should be mentioned in the same sentence is if people are talking about French sounding last names.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Don't even know which 3 years you mean. He missed a ton of time.

1990 - 59 games, not 100%, back issues
1991 - 26 games, not 100%, back issues
1992 - 64 games, same
1993 - 60 games, cancer
1994 - 22 games
1995 - 0 games, shortened season
1998, 1999, 2000, did not play
2001 - returned mid-way, only 43 games played
2002 - only 24 games played
2004 - only 10 games played
2006 - only 26 games played

How you look at this career and say "he missed 3 years" and expect people to know what you mean, I don't understand. He missed a hell of a lot more than 3 years - and also had major injuries in many of the years/games he played.

The 3 years that he missed

you literally wrote out his career now look at that and tell me which 3 years he missed.

I think he’s just trying to say that he missed 3 years straight. Not including all the other stuff Lemieux had to deal with/time missed

The only time Lemieux and Marleau should be mentioned in the same sentence is if people are talking about French sounding last names.

This person knows what "he missed 3 years" means.

Congratulations you win.

 

[Midnight Judges]

The 3 seasons after his return he put up 76 points in 43 games.

31 points in 24 games

91 points in 67 games.

The numbers say you are wrong.

Get educated

No, the numbers don't serve your opinion that Lemieux achieved peak performance into his 30s.

Quite the opposite.

Here in real life he barely even set foot on the ice after age 31 and his team did not achieve much. He played about 2 seasons worth of games - dribbled across 8 seasons.

During the years when Lemieux was 32-40, he was 186th in points (oooh "dominant") and 214th in goals.

 

[LivingRentFree]

Woohoo! What do I win?

The 3 years that he missed

you literally wrote out his career now look at that and tell me which 3 years he missed.



This person knows what "he missed 3 years" means.

Congratulations you win.

 

[Midnight Judges]

The only time Lemieux and Marleau should be mentioned in the same sentence is if people are talking about French sounding last names.

Well no.

Patrick Marleau contributed a similar amount of adjusted goals across his career to what Lemieux did.

That's what persistence achieves vs quitting/lack of durability. Lemieux's value is greatly reduced by his poor durability/leadership/commitment/conditioning. I realize his fans prefer to pretend that isn't the case.

It's interesting though, many hockey fans disdain Marleau for his stats that are compiled through persistence (Mike Gartner too). That is perverse IMO. Their commitment should be celebrated - and is among the GMs who had them.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Patrick Marleau has more career adjusted goals than Mario Lemieux.

That's just a basic metric. No need to get emotional.

NHL & WHA Career Leaders and Records for Adjusted Goals | Hockey-Reference.com

1. Alex Ovechkin (954), 2. Gordie Howe (925), 3. Jaromír Jágr (841), 4. Wayne Gretzky (758), 5. Teemu Selänne (741), 6. Brett Hull (738), 7. Jarome Iginla (706), 8. Brendan Shanahan (672), 9. Phil Esposito (671), 10. Sidney Crosby (655)

www.hockey-reference.com

Except that adjusted goals is fake.

I mean, I can adjust Matthews goal total from last season by turning every post he hit into a goal, and every goal he had waived off into a goal

If I do that he's at about a goal a game and might even be over that.

But I can't do that because you can't adjust goals, because adjusted goals isn't real it's fake

 

[LivingRentFree]

Well no.

Patrick Marleau contributed a similar amount of goal scoring value across his career as Lemieux did.

That's what persistence achieves vs quitting/lack of durability.

Yeah if you think that Marleau and Lemieux are at all comparable at anything, it’s probably time to log off and reassess which sport you’d like to follow. Because if you made a poll comparing Lemieux and Marleau, you’d be the only Marleau vote.

 

[Midnight Judges]

Yeah if you think that Marleau and Lemieux are at all comparable at anything,

They are though. I've shown that statistically.