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If Hockey had a real World Cup, would that be the best way to grow the game?

Big Phil said:
The problem with hockey is that there aren't 32 teams like in Soccer that are respectably good. It gets really foggy after 10 teams. So then the competition is horrible for most of the tournament.
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Yes. But soccer also has that weird thing with the regions being super uneven. So top 32 teams from Europe are better than World Cup attendants.
 
Do you know anybody in Canada who has moved to Canada from a non hockey playing country and who has got excited and interested in hockey?
 
VLK said:
Do you know anybody in Canada who has moved to Canada from a non hockey playing country and who has got excited and interested in hockey?
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Maybe the most well known one was what is for sure a non-traditional hockey country would be Nazem Kadri's father who loved the game once he came here from..................Lebanon, I think it was? Anyway, Nazem is born here and his father passed his love for the game onto him. So that's a pretty good example.

A guy I went to high school with from India loved hockey about two years into him being here. He was into it as much as I was.

So it happens for sure. How else would someone from a non-traditional hockey country like hockey?
 
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jj cale said:
I won't disagree on the last few points made here because they are true. What saddens me about it all is that the real thing we are missing out on is no top level best on best olympic hockey or world cup is the fact they as fans we are missing out on superior entertainment because well...................hockey is a better sport to watch then football.

I know I know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, blah blah. But really it isn't, when you strip away any bias and just take the sports as they are and you throw away all the energy of the crowd and the party going on and the production superiority/advantage one sport has over another and just observe the play action going on hockey ( and a host of other sports for that matter up to and including downhill skiing)................ has that sport beat hands down,.football really doens't grade out very well. I swear to god, it takes watching 20 games to get one with real sustained good great action. Way too may games where there just isn't enough action going on, and if a team or god forbid both of them want to park it it's just horribly dreadful stuff. So much of footballs popularity has to do with such a long tradition of it being an old sport with such deep roots, it's availability and the atmosphere in the stands and media built around that tradition. But if you were to wipe the slate clean, start humankind all over again and have god or the f***in aliens give you a season long example of just the sports being played that were going to be your options football would end up the niche sport because being honest it doesn't come close to so many other sports in game play itself that so many others do. When it's really great sure it's really great just like pretty much any sport you can think of, but man, you sure have to work for it as a fan. A lot of games there is nothing there to keep you watching except for the atmosphere in the stands, because it sure as hell isn't what is happening down there on the pitch most times.

Too slow, too much f***ing around with the ball doing nothing and going nowhere and just far too few legitimate scoring opportunities in too many games. I can't think of another sport that has solid popularity where there is so many nil-nil endings, that says a lot to me. In a lot of ways it's the most over rated sport in the world, it really is. Yet, by sheer timing, availability and luck it's in the number one sport on earth, but that's all it is, luck, availability and timing.

In terms of actual sports entertainment when we are talking about actual game action One tournaments worth of senior best and best hockey regardless of where it is held is worth 4 football world cups, and I could honestly say that about a lot of sports, Give me one wimbledon tournament over 4 world cups too, way more bang for the buck.

I mean I like football fine but the more you do watch it the more you pine for seeing the worlds best in hockey go at it.

We sure do need anther top level hockey competition and soon, thank god we still do have the WHC going, it gives us at least a good fix and we get it each year.

Now I sit back and wait for the football fans on here to call for my assassination.
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There's some strange thinskinnedness about soccer-fans. If you tell them that you don't care about their sport instead of saying that's OK then don't watch it they react like you have insulted their religion or their family.
 
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VLK said:
There's some strange thinskinnedness about soccer-fans. If you tell them that you don't care about their sport instead of saying that's OK then don't watch it they react like you have insulted their religion or their family.
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I know, they think it's as if you " just don't get it" as if you are unable to grasp an art form such as impressionist painting.


But I (we) get it......................it is what it is, at it's best sure it's great, the problem lies in just how much great you really get or even how much good you get. And in that respect in falls short of quite a few sports I can name off the top of my head.
 
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VLK said:
Do you know anybody in Canada who has moved to Canada from a non hockey playing country and who has got excited and interested in hockey?
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Have a couple of friends from Costa Rica here who fell in love with hockey, they watch it all the time.

It made immediate sense to them and they loved the speed of it, the nuances they quickly caught on watching it with the locals. Now (as is fast becoming the norm in our world) they bet on it, They are even a bit of a pain in the ass in the pools, lol.

The only real downside with these guys is they inevitably became fans of the Vancouver canucks, but theres no helping them there, brainwashing is real.
 
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Quite a funny thread to read, as usual when discussing the international game there's a few North Americans who cling on to the chauvinistic attitude that the elite of the sport should be restricted solely to the NHL, that we don't need to support the game overseas or have tournaments where each countries' bets players play etc etc.
Since we're soccer's also been mentioned, I'd say that's pretty reminiscent of the attitude the FA and the Football League had up until 1950 who stubbornly believed the pinnacle of the sport was and always would be in England...

Now ice hockey isn't soccer and the world of today is much different from that of the 50s, but I think a little humility and open-mindedness couldn't hurt. Maybe it'll never reach the same sort of worldwide audience that soccer or even basketball have, but I think there's plenty of potential new ground for the sport to break if the powers that be really made an effort.
Denmark's ability to ice a consistently respectable team despite a tiny playerbase and limited resources should be instructive, I see no reason why say, a China or Japan, or even a Netherlands couldn't compete at that sort of level in some theoretical future if more was done to promote the game there.

If you want to see how exposure at world level can propel a sport to new heights in an emerging country, I'd say take a look toward rugby union. Uruguay shipped over 100 points in one of their pool games in their debut in the world cup in 2003, but by 2019 they'd managed to improve to a point where they could upset Fiji in one of the tournament's most sensational results. They still didn't make it out of their pool stage but even that win helped see the team return as heroes, and the sport's still gaining ground in the country.
 
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aquaregia said:
Quite a funny thread to read, as usual when discussing the international game there's a few North Americans who cling on to the chauvinistic attitude that the elite of the sport should be restricted solely to the NHL, that we don't need to support the game overseas or have tournaments where each countries' bets players play etc etc.
Since we're soccer's also been mentioned, I'd say that's pretty reminiscent of the attitude the FA and the Football League had up until 1950 who stubbornly believed the pinnacle of the sport was and always would be in England...

Now ice hockey isn't soccer and the world of today is much different from that of the 50s, but I think a little humility and open-mindedness couldn't hurt. Maybe it'll never reach the same sort of worldwide audience that soccer or even basketball have, but I think there's plenty of potential new ground for the sport to break if the powers that be really made an effort.
Denmark's ability to ice a consistently respectable team despite a tiny playerbase and limited resources should be instructive, I see no reason why say, a China or Japan, or even a Netherlands couldn't compete at that sort of level in some theoretical future if more was done to promote the game there.

If you want to see how exposure at world level can propel a sport to new heights in an emerging country, I'd say take a look toward rugby union. Uruguay shipped over 100 points in one of their pool games in their debut in the world cup in 2003, but by 2019 they'd managed to improve to a point where they could upset Fiji in one of the tournament's most sensational results. They still didn't make it out of their pool stage but even that win helped see the team return as heroes, and the sport's still gaining ground in the country.
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Speaking of chauvinistic attitudes I bet that plays at least a partial part in a lot of European countries sports fans on why Hockey can't get a bigger following in much of that continent. After all, why even attempt to watch some Nordic/Canadian back water game played on ice when we already have......." the beautiful game" ? The sport is probably seen as oh so unimportant, maybe even "colonial" in British eyes. Ive experienced that attitude before firsthand on more then one occasion with folks from there that have been living here.

Hard to get a sport to have any traction if it's not even given a fair look no matter how many countries are involved in a tournament or how many t.v sets you manage to put it on..
 
Since this is the soccer thread.lol Hope everyone's watching Canada vs Croatia. Canada is in the final of the Davis Cup in tennis too. 2 things I never thought I'd see. Since I tuned into the soccer game it's been all Croatia and a lot of 'injury' delays. Canada in all black is a bit confusing but sweet jerseys. Croatia have the best jerseys in soccer IMO. Canada needs to get to the half.. they're getting crushed right now.
 
VLK said:
There's some strange thinskinnedness about soccer-fans. If you tell them that you don't care about their sport instead of saying that's OK then don't watch it they react like you have insulted their religion or their family.
Click to expand...

Most fans of sports are like this though, not just soccer supporters.
 
jj cale said:
I won't disagree on the last few points made here because they are true. What saddens me about it all is that the real thing we are missing out on is no top level best on best olympic hockey or world cup is the fact they as fans we are missing out on superior entertainment because well...................hockey is a better sport to watch then football.

I know I know, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, blah blah. But really it isn't, when you strip away any bias and just take the sports as they are and you throw away all the energy of the crowd and the party going on and the production superiority/advantage one sport has over another and just observe the play action going on hockey ( and a host of other sports for that matter up to and including downhill skiing)................ has that sport beat hands down,.football really doens't grade out very well. I swear to god, it takes watching 20 games to get one with real sustained good great action. Way too may games where there just isn't enough action going on, and if a team or god forbid both of them want to park it it's just horribly dreadful stuff. So much of footballs popularity has to do with such a long tradition of it being an old sport with such deep roots, it's availability and the atmosphere in the stands and media built around that tradition. But if you were to wipe the slate clean, start humankind all over again and have god or the f***in aliens give you a season long example of just the sports being played that were going to be your options football would end up the niche sport because being honest it doesn't come close to so many other sports in game play itself that so many others do. When it's really great sure it's really great just like pretty much any sport you can think of, but man, you sure have to work for it as a fan. A lot of games there is nothing there to keep you watching except for the atmosphere in the stands, because it sure as hell isn't what is happening down there on the pitch most times.

Too slow, too much f***ing around with the ball doing nothing and going nowhere and just far too few legitimate scoring opportunities in too many games. I can't think of another sport that has solid popularity where there is so many nil-nil endings, that says a lot to me. In a lot of ways it's the most over rated sport in the world, it really is. Yet, by sheer timing, availability and luck it's in the number one sport on earth, but that's all it is, luck, availability and timing.

In terms of actual sports entertainment when we are talking about actual game action One tournaments worth of senior best and best hockey regardless of where it is held is worth 4 football world cups, and I could honestly say that about a lot of sports, Give me one wimbledon tournament over 4 world cups too, way more bang for the buck.

I mean I like football fine but the more you do watch it the more you pine for seeing the worlds best in hockey go at it.

We sure do need anther top level hockey competition and soon, thank god we still do have the WHC going, it gives us at least a good fix and we get it each year.

Now I sit back and wait for the football fans on here to call for my assassination.
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Right, but is high intensity action the hallmark of sports entertainment? Or can it be that some people just find it best for immediate gratification?

Hockey is my clear #1, but I can understand the attraction of football (soccer), or other slower/lower scoring sports. The love can be in the subtleties and nuances that other people find boring and/or are oblivious to.

Look at American football and baseball; 2 games with even less action than soccer. The ball isn't even in play 90% of the time; yet those sports are vastly more complex and tactical than, say, a highly intense game like hockey. Every action is like a mini chess match. I can completely understand the appeal.


Soccer is like the middle ground in this respect, imo. Less intense but more strategic than hockey. More intense but less strategic than baseball or whatever. It's a bit of everything in one.

But each to their own.
 
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Zine said:
Right, but is high intensity action the hallmark of sports entertainment? Or can it be that some people just find it best for immediate gratification?

Hockey is my clear #1, but I can understand the attraction of football (soccer), or other slower/lower scoring sports. The love can be in the subtleties and nuances that other people find boring and/or are oblivious to.

Look at American football and baseball; 2 games with even less action than soccer. The ball isn't even in play 90% of the time; yet those sports are vastly more complex and tactical than, say, a highly intense game like hockey. Every action is like a mini chess match. I can completely understand the appeal.


Soccer is like the middle ground in this respect, imo. Less intense but more strategic than hockey. More intense but less strategic than baseball or whatever. It's a bit of everything in one.

But each to their own.
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That's a reasonable viewpoint. I'd agree a lot of football is in the nuances as with baseball (which I really enjoy)


Though both sports can nuance you to death on far too many occasions, or at least to sleep.
 
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jj cale said:
That's a reasonable viewpoint. I'd agree a lot of football is in the nuances as with baseball (which I really enjoy)


Though both sports can nuance you to death on far too many occasions, or at least to sleep.
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Wait... Wait! You like baseball and are criticizing soccer for being boring?lol.

What's next... Nascar?

I'll see myself out
 
Czechboy said:
Wait... Wait! You like baseball and are criticizing soccer for being boring?lol.

What's next... Nascar?

I'll see myself out
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Theres a lot going on in baseball I swear, you just don't get it!!!, lol

Don't worry about any nascar love from me though, that's never gonna happen, rather watch water boil.
 
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jj cale said:
Speaking of chauvinistic attitudes I bet that plays at least a partial part in a lot of European countries sports fans on why Hockey can't get a bigger following in much of that continent. After all, why even attempt to watch some Nordic/Canadian back water game played on ice when we already have......." the beautiful game" ? The sport is probably seen as oh so unimportant, maybe even "colonial" in British eyes. Ive experienced that attitude before firsthand on more then one occasion with folks from there that have been living here.

Hard to get a sport to have any traction if it's not even given a fair look no matter how many countries are involved in a tournament or how many t.v sets you manage to put it on..
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Yeah you have a point, though I hardly think that that's the crucial barrier that international ice hockey is heroically failing to breach. If these fringe nations rarely get to see their teams play in meaningful competitions, and when they do their star players are often missing due to being in the NHL playoffs or they simply can't be arsed (or in the case of Daniel Sprong he'd rather hold out for a call-up from Canada than represent his native Netherlands), then there's precious little out there to challenge that view of the game being a sport played by weird snowmen from far away.

Looking back at soccer again, the US and Canada reaching this years' world cup goes to show that prejudicial attitudes can definitely be overcome in countries where the sport is on the fringes. Just as in the case of North American soccer, ice hockey in Britain [for example] does have an enthusiastic niche that supports the game despite the dearth of nationwide media coverage.

Having the team play at a properly organised World Cup that was taken seriously by the game's major powers could do wonder for expanding its audience, even if they lost every game, likewise with other countries in Europe and Asia with potential to grow.
 
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If you have a TEAM Europe it isn't a WC

Two Groups of 5
Top 8 auto qualify
Two spots for qualifiers
Easy
 
Hockey is not football ("soccer"), the whole world does not adore it. Nobody wants this kind of tournament. A competitive hockey tournament today can be called a tournament in which a maximum of 10 national teams take part. The potential for the development of hockey must be sought in the northern half of the European continent. Apart from the Big-6, we have Germany, Austria, Switzerland, Great Britain, Poland, Slovakia, France, Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, north of Italy - there is potential for hockey to develop to an elite level. Imagine that Germany, the UK and France have a 90-100% NHL roster. And what interest could be generated by a All Star international tournament where Big-6 will expand to, for example, Big-12. This is my dream.
 
Taking NHL hockey out of the Olympics was one of the worst steps the NHL administration could have taken to grow the game globally. Such a small low-risk event to promote the sport internationally. Sure, a random viewer might not know the names, but the added media coverage and discussion around it would percolate to people around the world. It's a very digitally connected planet now and NHL at the Olympics generates way more buzz than without, for both the NHL and the IOC.

Just utter nonsense how 2018 was skipped. 2022 I can still accept given the pandemic, but 2018 was and is totally unforgivable and set the international game back a couple of decades. It takes a few events to build some sort of credibility and longevity and if there is no sustained presence no one will really pay attention to a one-off tournament
 
I have three points I would like to point out

1. Olympics must have NHL players. This is CRUCIAL for long term popularity of the game. NHL must allow players to participate. Olympics would have 5 times bigger audience than world cup and the difference would be even higher among non-active hockey followers.

2. If there's world cup, please, for the love of god, no gimmick teams. Yes, having them allowed to show bigger % of top NHL players but as a negative effect it turned the tournament into a meaningless joke.

3. Stop saying we have "only" 6 countries that can win. Baseball, basketball, American football are all fantastic sports even though US would probably win every time if they played with best players internationally. We can have nice tournaments and watch amazing game of hockey if we stop this negativity and make an effort.
 
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