Post-Game Talk: Ice bird

[DialUp]

@Filip Chytil i thought that was real for most of that post. I have lost trust in everything.

 

[DanielBrassard]

It's correctable.

I don't know why correctable things go uncorrected on this team all the time. You could say the same of some of the habits the vets have too.

Is it correctable? Or is it just who Kakko is as a player? Even in Finland he wasn't a guy who shot off the pass much if at all. He's a guy who needs to use his size and hands to cut to the middle of the ice, it's that simple. For whatever reason, be it his skating, his lack of confidence, not being so much more skilled than his competition like he was in Finland he hasn't been able to do that consistently.

 

[TheDirtyH]

I think the coaches are apprehensive when it comes to correcting anything with the vets. Is it the player's coach stuff or just the NYR atmosphere? Of course, I'm assuming this.

I see a lot of good with Kakko. You can see flashes of it. I think it's a confidence thing and being bounced around the lineup doesn't help. I also think he'd benefit from some sort of structure ( as would the team) and lately, they haven't shown anything that resembles structure.

@Ola said it so often when he joined the team that this is why it's important to 'hand it' to these top picks. Kakko is a stout defensive forward because from 18-21 years old he was used as a bottom six checker. Very little PP time, and the myth that he was in the top 6 for so long in 2019 and just sucked needs to die too. He did suck, but he was out of the top 6 (hell, out of the top 9) by their 6th game of the year.

You've got a kid still learning, still growing, barely an adult in a legal sense let alone a biological one, and he gets to touch the puck in a hockey game for what? 3 mins total across 3 months? And 90% of it is in the dzone (bc he sucked). Now he's 22 and doesn't have a clue how to be a scorer at this level. It doesn't help that every time he puts it together he either gets injured or moved around the lineup, or most recently booted off the PP.

I'm as whatever with Kakko as anybody, but seriously the authors of the story are at least as much David Quinn, Gorton, Gallant as Kakko.

 

[DanielBrassard]

I forget which game it was this weekend, either Montreal or Buffalo where he gathered the puck in the very high slot with space & instead of darting toward the net or shooting, his first instinct was to take the puck directly toward the boards. Clearly thats the only aspect of his game he fully trusts. He actually has a decent shot, but not when he's pressured. This kid is the poster child for why sports psychologists exist.

I also think the teams' pass first mentality is rubbing off on these kids in really negative ways. Even Chytil who is clearly a shoot first player passes up WAY too many shots. We really need a witch doctor or Tom Berenger with a bucket of KFC to exercise these demons from our locker room.

I gotta push back on the Fil comment. He does not pass up shots lol, he's like top 10 or 20 in shot attempts/60 in the entire league. Which is great. I want him shooting the puck because he has a great release.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

If you watch the Bs play there is constant puck support. High percentage passes lead to more zone time and chances. And then boom, they find Pasta, Marchand or Bergeron all alone in the slot. But its not every shift. You have to be patient and cultivate it.

Part of the issue is this team is too spread out and impatient, trying to find each other from one side or end of the rink to the other. Even D to the forwards. Long cross ice outlet passes. Trying to hit low percentage seams in zone. When they are at their best they play as a unit, their feet are moving and the passes are shorter in all zones. They work the points, everything is quick but with that there is a patience thats kind of unquantifiable. That lets their skill show through and they are very tough to contain.

Support the puck, manage the puck.

We are seeing the 4th line do it. Read and react to your teammates, not to the puck or your personal gain/creativity. When the kid line is on, they put on a clinic in this regard. Even if they cycle it in the zone for minutes on end without a prime scoring chance, its in the other end and not your own. The first two lines we dont see much of this.

Thats one reason why there are so many turnovers with Kane and Panarin. They circle around trying to find open ice for themselves instead of supporting their teammates. Thats fine, they arent going to change and thats part of what makes them great.

But they need to find the combos that allows each line to function as a unit and not individuals. Then maybe each line can find its own level of creativity without the massive amount of turnovers and the team can start building an identity thats harder to play against and tighter defensively.

 

[chosen]

I have wondered from time to time whether Panarin will ever win a Cup. Games like today make me think not—which is a problem because he’s a Ranger.

The best goaltender in NHL history would have never won a Cup if he didn't get moved at the end of his career.

Ditto for Ray Bourque.

 

[DanielBrassard]

If you watch the Bs play there is constant puck support. High percentage passes lead to more zone time and chances. And then boom, they find Pasta, Marchand or Bergeron all alone in the slot. But its not every shift. You have to be patient and cultivate it.

Part of the issue is this team is too spread out, trying to find each other from one side or end of the rink to the other. Even D to the forwards. Long cross ice outlet passes. Trying to hit low percentage seams in zone. When they are at their best they play as a unit, their feet are moving and the passes are shorter in all zones. They work the points and everything is quick. That lets their skill show through and they are very tough to contain.

Support the puck, manage the puck.

We are seeing the 4th line do it. Read and react to your teammates, not to the puck or your personal gain/creativity. When the kid line is on, they put on a clinic in this regard. The first two lines we dont see much of this.

Thats one reason why there are so many turnovers with Kane and Panarin. They circle around trying to find open ice for themselves instead of supporting their teammates. Thats fine, they arent going to change and thats part of what makes them great.

But they need to find the combos that allows each line to function as a unit and not individuals. Then maybe each line can find its own level of creativity without the massive amount of turnovers and the team can start building an identity thats harder to play against and tighter defensively.

Very well said. That's why someone like Vesey, or Fast in the past is such a great fit for someone like Panarin because they will provide puck support all over the ice. Not to mention forechecking and defensive coverage as well. It's not a coincidence those have been the Rangers best lines all season

 

[chosen]

This is not a playoff team without Panarin, but by all means, overreact to one play that was Gallant's fault for AGAIN leaving guys out for a minute and a half in the 3v3.

Three points in Montreal and the OT winner yesterday and you never hear "wow, Panarin really came through." Not once.

Panarin sucked last year. He's been great this year most of the season now.

You can't disagree with the villagers when they carry pitchforks and torches.

 

[leetch99]

The Rangers are better when they are playing physical. I don’t understand why they don’t do it more .

They could start by not slinking off to the corners after a shot. They could be a bit more forceful in the opposition crease instead of bum patting the Dman .....maybe a glove facial or a helmet push from behind ....or heaven forbid a goalie bump !!!! Just little stuff that makes the opposition dmen want to hurt you more and gets them off their own game .

It will be nearly impossible to win 4 let alone 16 playoff games being that soft . As it was.....we barely beat 2 non playoff clubs[one an AHL club] and even lost to Penguins who sit below us in the standings .

 

[Peltz]

Is it correctable? Or is it just who Kakko is as a player? Even in Finland he wasn't a guy who shot off the pass much if at all. He's a guy who needs to use his size and hands to cut to the middle of the ice, it's that simple. For whatever reason, be it his skating, his lack of confidence, not being so much more skilled than his competition like he was in Finland he hasn't been able to do that consistently.

It’s confidence. When he’s feeling it, he goes on a 15 game hot streak where he’s looking dominant.

It will come more with age. All star break killed his momentum for some reason. Im hoping he gets it back because I love the way he plays when he’s good.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I gotta push back on the Fil comment. He does not pass up shots lol, he's like top 10 or 20 in shot attempts/60 in the entire league. Which is great. I want him shooting the puck because he has a great release.

Ok, maybe it's been a recent thing that I've been noticing lately with the entire team so pass happy.

 

[Peltz]

@Ola said it so often when he joined the team that this is why it's important to 'hand it' to these top picks. Kakko is a stout defensive forward because from 18-21 years old he was used as a bottom six checker. Very little PP time, and the myth that he was in the top 6 for so long in 2019 and just sucked needs to die too. He did suck, but he was out of the top 6 (hell, out of the top 9) by their 6th game of the year.

You've got a kid still learning, still growing, barely an adult in a legal sense let alone a biological one, and he gets to touch the puck in a hockey game for what? 3 mins total across 3 months? And 90% of it is in the dzone (bc he sucked). Now he's 22 and doesn't have a clue how to be a scorer at this level. It doesn't help that every time he puts it together he either gets injured or moved around the lineup, or most recently booted off the PP.

I'm as whatever with Kakko as anybody, but seriously the authors of the story are at least as much David Quinn, Gorton, Gallant as Kakko.

He just needs to work on his shot. He scores well around the crease. But that’s not always going to be available to him against good d-men. I like everything else about his development other than that and just the overall consistency.

 

[leetch99]

Somebody mentioned Ola.....where did he go ?

 

[Machinehead]

Is it correctable? Or is it just who Kakko is as a player? Even in Finland he wasn't a guy who shot off the pass much if at all. He's a guy who needs to use his size and hands to cut to the middle of the ice, it's that simple. For whatever reason, be it his skating, his lack of confidence, not being so much more skilled than his competition like he was in Finland he hasn't been able to do that consistently.

Literally just shooting more is correctable, yes.

If he does have serious detriments holding him back at this level, then he needs to make adjustments.

 

[HockeyBasedNYC]

Very well said. That's why someone like Vesey, or Fast in the past is such a great fit for someone like Panarin because they will provide puck support all over the ice. Not to mention forechecking and defensive coverage as well. It's not a coincidence those have been the Rangers best lines all season

Its the little things like this, small selfless decisions that happen several times per game that creates wins. Forcing the weak side carrier when your linemates are making a change. Staying high when two are deep and switching when the puck comes back to your side. Curling back instead of pinching up on the wall, unless the game plan calls for it. Basic shit.

Everyone loves the flashy offensively talented wizards who put the puck in the net or make a great entertaining move or pass, but it's a team game that wins championships when the playoffs begin. Everyone needs to be in lock step.

Whats frustrating, annoying and somewhat surprising is the Rangers are young and extremely talented and for the most part refuse to do a lot of these things on the regular, yet they still are a top 8 team in the NHL and top 10 defense.

If 6 or 7 forwards and a couple defenders would just submit to this theme of managing the play the Rangers would be virtually unstoppable with the talent they possess. 3 or 4 goal against games turn into 1 or 2 and just work the math. In turn it makes the game easier for the goaltender to manage and get into a groove. Its right there for the taking.

 

[NikC]

After the Trouba hit... Malkin was given a penalty... great..

Next shift, Pens are jumping on NYR in the offensive zone, Krieder get crossed checked to the face, then taken down... why no 5-3? I don't understand. They saw the trip in OT?

 

[Crease]

The best goaltender in NHL history would have never won a Cup if he didn't get moved at the end of his career.

Ditto for Ray Bourque.

Very fair. It’s a team sport.

 

[UnparalledPark]

The Rangers are better when they are playing physical. I don’t understand why they don’t do it more

Reeves got traded.

 

[Gluten Free Breadman]

 

[Machinehead]

After the Trouba hit... Malkin was given a penalty... great..

Next shift, Pens are jumping on NYR in the offensive zone, Krieder get crossed checked to the face, then taken down... why no 5-3? I don't understand. They saw the trip in OT?

Game management.

They avoid 5-3's unless they absolutely have to call it, i.e. over the glass or a bloody high stick.

 

[Gordon Bombay]

I like hearing from the players. We don't get to a lot if you really think about it. When was the last time you heard a Ranger on FAN or ESPN 98.7? Rangers PR will not allow a player to go on the Post podcast or Vince's podcast or any podcast really. Why? Vince gets around this by recording an interview with a player after practice and playing it on his podcast. But what's the big deal? If you hear these interviews (Vince has had Jimmy Vesey and Filip Chytil) they are harmless. But they do allow for some personality to come out. You learn things you didn't know before.

The Rangers don't really have accessibility for anything. The last time we saw Drury was because TNT showed him. Did he show himself after the Tarasenko and Kane trades? We saw Sather more than this guy.

Hell, their social media team is like 10 years late on the rest of the league with their handles

 

[hackeyman]

The best goaltender in NHL history would have never won a Cup if he didn't get moved at the end of his career.

Ditto for Ray Bourque.

Very different circumstances though. Hasek and Bourque stood head and shoulders above the second best player on the Sabres and Bruins and they were the substantial reason for any success their teams had at all. Hasek and Bourque were the poster children for players that deserved to win a cup but played on teams with not near enough support to be a contender. Panarin is a far different story and there is a legitimate question as to wether he is a detriment to a team trying to win a Stanley Cup.

 

[CasusBelli]

Yea lets trade Panarin so a bunch of 30 pt players can get more ice time.

Or you could offload him before he has negative value, recognizing that there’s always a talented UFA every offseason, and being wary that our window may have closed for some time with his departure. No need for smugness.

This is like the trader who loses his job because he held on to a losing position too long instead of cutting his losses or recognizing that all investments have expiries — and opportunities always abound.

 

[GoAwayPanarin]

Game management.

They avoid 5-3's unless they absolutely have to call it, i.e. over the glass or a bloody high stick.

Unless the Penguins are going to benefit from it.

Then they won't miss it or will pretend that they saw something.

 

[Machinehead]

Unless the Penguins are going to benefit from it.

Then they won't miss it or will pretend that they saw something.

True