Post-Game Talk: I think this team might have some flaws

[Cmox]

Big Em is our only reporter.

Here's the video.

Is she pregnant @will1066 ?

 

[Machinehead]

My biggest question is where is our structure?

Why do we always look lost?

Carolina just lost half their back end, and didnt miss a beat.

Why do our teams always have no structure and players always look lost. Is it bad coaching, poor listening, players not wanting to change? All of the above? I dont get it.

I truly dont get it. We never play at a higher level than we should. We play like sand and rocks are stuck in our gears.

We have alot of talent. We get the bare minimum out of it night in and night out. Where other teams get the most out of less.

It's a number of things.

1) The core players on your team form a culture. I never bought the narrative that these professional ass athletes just don't care, but we filled our roster with a lot of very limited, offensive freelancers who don't play a great brand of hockey. They can work as your 3rd or 4th option, not as the nucleus of the team. When the guy playing 22 minutes plays like that, it becomes contagious. Playstyle is contagious. Most guys buy into what the nucleus is doing.

2) If you can't move the puck from point A to point B, you can't do anything. This organization is absolutely in love with defensemen who can't handle the puck and almost all of the offensive players mentioned in the point above are terrible at passing. I'm not saying everyone needs to be Kucherov or get a bunch of assists. It's the subtle ability to move the puck through the neutral zone. Chytil has it. Every other forward sucks wind at it besides Panarin.

3) NHL coahces are pretty samey, and I'm not expecting anything revolutionary, but it's been a long, long time since they had any semblance of accountability. Laviolette is trying this year by significantly cutting into Zibanejad's minutes, I'll give credit where it's due, but the ship has sailed. The next core of players needs a couple of years of "no, you play this way or you don't play." I've alluded to it before: David Quinn giving Panarin and Zibanejad 23 minutes even if they shot the pope set a really bad tone.

 

[McRanger92]

I kind of agree with you, but I see another side of it.

I do like the young pieces we've compiled and getting rid of the vets will get a lot of stink off the team, and allow us to put together a new identity.

At the same time, watching this team without Panarin last night, holy f*** they have NOOOOO talent. Handing the keys to Cuylle and Chytil isn't going to be it. They need significant pieces coming in. Guys that will keep Cuylle and Chytil as role players. Probably a 1C and at least two top 4 defensemen.

Where is that coming from?

Before we worry about talent, they need to worry about playing as cohesive unit. They arent this bad of a team obviously. I didnt want to fire laviolette really, but it might be necessary because the man is lost and gong down with the veterans. They need more of a physical element and to start playing with speed. Again, it's only December, they have time...but not too much.

They need to keep making trades. Its cliche but its true. Not everyone on the team is pulling on the same rope. Drury needs to make his "Kevin Klein" trade, to hopefully start righting the ship. then closer to the deadline, he needs to make his "Marian Gaborik" trade. I dont want to hear that it's "hard to make trades" at this time of year. You dont even need to "win" them, hejust needs to start adding players with elements the team is lacking. Like speed and physicality.

 

[Ruggs225]

2) If you can't move the puck from point A to point B, you can't do anything. This organization is absolutely in love with defensemen who can't handle the puck and almost all of the offensive players mentioned in the point above are terrible at passing. I'm not saying everyone needs to be Kucherov or get a bunch of assists. It's the subtle ability to move the puck through the neutral zone. Chytil has it. Every other forward sucks wind at it besides Panarin.

I think there is more to that. Our players are never in a good position to receive the puck. When i watch it almost seems like each player has no clue where his teammates will be. That definitely affects the ability to make clean passes, quickly and decisively.

How many times do we see pass whipped around the boards and a dman not there to keep it in the zone.

Watching other teams, players pass to open ice where they know a player will be and can skate into it. They support one another. There is structure u can see.

Our players are so out of synch it exacerbated the lack of quality puckhandlers, which is an issue, but i dont think as bad as it looks.

And again my question is why? Why do our players not know whwre to be. Or how to support each other. This isnt a skill thing. This is fundamentals.

And im not asking you for an answer. But it is the question that needs to be addressed by the team. And hasnt been through the last three coaches.

Is it players not listening? Is it coaches having bad strategy or pack of adapting? Why are we so out of synch, and teuthfully have been since Quinn. It looks like each player just does their own thing.

This isnt a skill thing, its a team thing.

 

[Boris Zubov]

This isnt a skill thing, its a team thing.

It's both...the team has zero structure, which in itself is asinine after they begged to be coached up after the last coach was too laissez faire with them. Then the new coach comes in with a 1-3-1 scheme that yields immediate positive results, only to completely abandon it with zero explanation a year later.

However, it's apparent, especially when you see them without Panarin, that they are not an overly talented group. Combined with the fact they're refusing to exert any energy, the results are pretty ugly.

 

[jerseyjinx94]

We have seen that same effort on a back check from Panarin, Laf, Vinnie etc. Happens numerous times every game. They are all lazy and dont give a f***.

Zibanejad is your #1 C, supposed to be a 2way guy, makes 8.5M.

Don’t see that from Trocheck often.

See it from Laf and Panarin but again, they’re scoring wingers. It annoys me but not as much as when Mika does it bc of what he’s supposed to be for this team.

 

[TheDirtyH]

It's both...the team has zero structure, which in itself is asinine after they begged to be coached up after the last coach was too laissez faire with them. Then the new coach comes in with a 1-3-1 scheme that yields immediate positive results, only to completely abandon it with zero explanation a year later.

However, it's apparent, especially when you see them without Panarin, that they are not an overly talented group. Combined with the fact they're refusing to exert any energy, the results are pretty ugly.

I don't think the Rangers had more structure, they just had a better roster, and they rode all the usual things new heights. They were a mediocre 5v5 team with one working line (that happened to have a top 5 player in the world on it, shockingly), dominant special teams, and great goaltending.

I think the Laviolette bump was really overexaggerated last year. The main difference between the 2022-23 group and the 23-24 group, to my eyes, was a) swapping Nemeth with Gustafsson and b) Panarin having another MVP tier bounceback after being the object of a ton of scrutiny and criticism (baldnarin really changed the game). Not to mention the difference between Halak's 0-4 start and Quick's first go-round with the team. Some huge improvements around the edges and a career season from your best player = 7 points in the standings.

 

[will1066]

Smith should go on IR for whiplash from the Wilsby fake.

 

[Boris Zubov]

I don't think the Rangers had more structure, they just had a better roster, and they rode all the usual things new heights. They were a mediocre 5v5 team with one working line (that happened to have a top 5 player in the world on it, shockingly), dominant special teams, and great goaltending.

I think the Laviolette bump was really overexaggerated last year. The main difference between the 2022-23 group and the 23-24 group, to my eyes, was a) swapping Nemeth with Gustafsson and b) Panarin having another MVP tier bounceback after being the object of a ton of scrutiny and criticism (baldnarin really changed the game). Not to mention the difference between Halak's 0-4 start and Quick's first go-round with the team. Some huge improvements around the edges and a career season from your best player = 7 points in the standings.

Regardless if it was entirely on Lavi or not, as a team they seem committed to a strong defensive game with the forwards working hard in their own end. Panarin's overall improvement from the year before was definitely a huge factor.

However, Nemeth was gone after the '22 playoffs. IMO, we screwed up by not keeping Mikkola instead of Lindgren after the '23 first round exit.

 

[TheDirtyH]

Regardless if it was entirely on Lavi or not, as a team they seem committed to a strong defensive game with the forwards working hard in their own end. Panarin's overall improvement from the year before was definitely a huge factor.

However, Nemeth was gone after the '22 playoffs. IMO, we screwed up by not keeping Mikkola instead of Lindgren after the '23 first round exit.

You're right on Nemeth lol, I can't even remember who 3LD was the next year, but point is Gus was a HUGE improvement in that spot, even as a PP2 guy.

I still think they were pretty dysfunctional and loose defensively, as much as they've always been.

They ranked 28th in Rush xGA last season according to Valliquette. 22nd in 22-23, 15th in 21-22.

 

[Boris Zubov]

You're right on Nemeth lol, I can't even remember who 3LD was the next year, but point is Gus was a HUGE improvement in that spot, even as a PP2 guy.

I still think they were pretty dysfunctional and loose defensively, as much as they've always been.

They ranked 28th in Rush xGA last season according to Valliquette. 22nd in 22-23, 15th in 21-22.

They certainly got looser as the season went on...it started when Fox went out of the lineup. Then Igor had his mid season lull.

Trouba was awful even before he broke his ankle & the wheels began falling off Lindgren once Fox got hurt. The writing was really on the wall for them long before this season started.

 

[Ruggs225]

They certainly got looser as the season went on...it started when Fox went out of the lineup. Then Igor had his mid season lull.

Trouba was awful even before he broke his ankle & the wheels began falling off Lindgren once Fox got hurt. The writing was really on the wall for them long before this season started.

The team actually looked really good when lindgren and trouba were out.

But as soon as he was healthy enough to skate he was reinserted.

 

[RempireStateBuilding]

My biggest question is where is our structure?

Why do we always look lost?

Carolina just lost half their back end, and didnt miss a beat.

Why do our teams always have no structure and players always look lost. Is it bad coaching, poor listening, players not wanting to change? All of the above? I dont get it.

I truly dont get it. We never play at a higher level than we should. We play like sand and rocks are stuck in our gears.

We have alot of talent. We get the bare minimum out of it night in and night out. Where other teams get the most out of less.

System, culture, coaching. This team feels like one where management has told the players, "You guys are professionals and we trust you. Whatever decision you make, stands. We're hands-off here." The last like, 3 coaching staffs have apparently been that - "Player's coaches." Just let the players police and manage themselves. "He's not an Xs and Os coach, he's a player's coach." Maybe it's time to get an Xs and Os coach for once. But these "player's coaches" are who management keeps hiring. It's like that scene in Mean Girls or whatever movie. "I'm not a regular mom, I'm a *cool* mom" except here it's "I'm not a regular coach, i'm a *cool* coach."

The system is whatever the player's decide. That's why it always looks so disjointed and as if they don't have a cohesive plan - Because they don't. Because it's 10 different bits of plans mushed together instead of one proper coach instilling a proper system. It's why teams like Carolina don't miss a beat and always look like an actual team. They have one guy directing the team on what they're supposed to do. NYR let their players freelance and wonder where things could possibly be going wrong.

Catching other games over the years, one thing always stuck out to me when comparing NYR to other teams: Puck management. This team has NO puck management and usually very little puck awareness. Other top teams are crisp and definitive when handling the puck - shooting, passing, carrying. This team is ALWAYS so f***ing lackadaisical when it comes to puck control. Soft, weak handles. Sloppy, inaccurate passing. Little confidence to carry the puck. Little puck support. Little awareness of where the puck is, and where they are in relation to the puck/play.

 

[Mr Mxmzptlk]

Watching other teams, players pass to open ice where they know a player will be and can skate into it. They support one another. There is structure u can see.

This has been a problem for the Rangers for decades. As I've mentioned before, the problem is organizational. These are things that should be taught at the AHL and lower levels until they become second nature. However, the Rangers are not a TEAM. They are a collection of individuals thrown together willy-nilly and are expected to be successful. They rarely draft or sign players to fill specific needs. Look at our hated enemies the Pens and Bruins....I recall both teams at one point lost more than half of their d-men....yet they both were able to bring up AHLers who stepped in seamlessly because they were taught in the minors what was expected of them if they were ever called up. I can't think of one instance where this happened on the Rangers.

They really need to decide what type of game and/or system they want to play and incorporate it thru the entire organization.

 

[zlev]

Carolina lost two defensemen and replaced them with better ones, funny how that seems to work really well

 

[will1066]

System, culture, coaching. This team feels like one where management has told the players, "You guys are professionals and we trust you. Whatever decision you make, stands. We're hands-off here." The last like, 3 coaching staffs have apparently been that - "Player's coaches." Just let the players police and manage themselves. "He's not an Xs and Os coach, he's a player's coach." Maybe it's time to get an Xs and Os coach for once. But these "player's coaches" are who management keeps hiring. It's like that scene in Mean Girls or whatever movie. "I'm not a regular mom, I'm a *cool* mom" except here it's "I'm not a regular coach, i'm a *cool* coach."

The system is whatever the player's decide. That's why it always looks so disjointed and as if they don't have a cohesive plan - Because they don't. Because it's 10 different bits of plans mushed together instead of one proper coach instilling a proper system. It's why teams like Carolina don't miss a beat and always look like an actual team. They have one guy directing the team on what they're supposed to do. NYR let their players freelance and wonder where things could possibly be going wrong.

Catching other games over the years, one thing always stuck out to me when comparing NYR to other teams: Puck management. This team has NO puck management and usually very little puck awareness. Other top teams are crisp and definitive when handling the puck - shooting, passing, carrying. This team is ALWAYS so f***ing lackadaisical when it comes to puck control. Soft, weak handles. Sloppy, inaccurate passing. Little confidence to carry the puck. Little puck support. Little awareness of where the puck is, and where they are in relation to the puck/play.

Marvel Heroes of Pond Hockey

 

[McRanger92]

Marvel Heroes of Pond Hockey

Kreider is the Captain America of backhand pass turnovers at the blue line.

 

[will1066]

Kreider is the Captain America of backhand pass turnovers at the blue line.

Panarin is his counterpart, Tony Starks.

 

[Boris Zubov]

The team actually looked really good when lindgren and trouba were out.

But as soon as he was healthy enough to skate he was reinserted.

Agreed, they played some of their best hockey with those two out.

 

[will1066]

Here's the video.

Is she pregnant @will1066 ?

She does look a little off

 

[McRanger92]

It doesnt get talked about as an issue as much regarding players as it did when I was younger, but the Rangers have an insane amount of floaters and gliders. Mika on the backcheck yesterday on the first goal. He turns it over, doesnt hustle back, Ruhwedel is outnumbered and the puck is in the net. Chris Glider is another culprit. Panarin does it, but at least he produces I guess. our defenseman float around the zone. No urgency. Miller, Fox, Lindgren all do it. The coach is stuck looking for answers when a clear one if that guys dont move their feet at all. Why is that hard to see?

 

[TGWL]

This offseason is going to hurt.....the players.

 

[Guyute]

It doesnt get talked about as an issue as much regarding players as it did when I was younger, but the Rangers have an insane amount of floaters and gliders. Mika on the backcheck yesterday on the first goal. He turns it over, doesnt hustle back, Ruhwedel is outnumbered and the puck is in the net. Chris Glider is another culprit. Panarin does it, but at least he produces I guess. our defenseman float around the zone. No urgency. Miller, Fox, Lindgren all do it. The coach is stuck looking for answers when a clear one if that guys dont move their feet at all. Why is that hard to see?

Ruhwedel, not Mika, turned over the puck on the first goal last night. That doesn't excuse a cooked Stamkos beating Mika down the rink after the turnover.

 

[will1066]

I'm willing to give Vaakanainen a little bit of a honeymoon period. First goal last night was dumb puck luck. On the first goal, he actually got his stick in there to break up the pass but the puck went right back to a Pred.