I think enough time has gone by, anyone besides me wanna see

[tmlms13]

The Leafs were 9-10-4 when Babcock was fired. And 27 - 15 - 5 under Keefe.

It wasn't a bad decision.

 

[HarryLime]

We don't deserve him back. We cancelled him. The stuff he did with Franzen was bad but the media made him out to be a psychopath. I'm happy to see the team struggle so bad.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Or…
- remember that babcock uses awful tactics such as getting a rookie to rank players from most effort to least effort and then exposing said list to players who show least amount of effort

- berating players to the point of mental degradation

- not making proper adjustments during playoff series

- having a shoddy record before getting canned

Babcock wanted to win.

He was at his wits end.

He should have just gone through the motions like the players.

 

[rocketman588]

We don't deserve him back. We cancelled him. The stuff he did with Franzen was bad but the media made him out to be a psychopath. I'm happy to see the team struggle so bad.

We don't deserve him back. We cancelled him. The stuff he did with Franzen was bad but the media made him out to be a psychopath. I'm happy to see the team struggle so bad.

Dubas did stuff to build the roster the exact opposite of how Babs wanted it cut his back up goalie then led a media campaign to save his own job.

I'm excited to see what terrible things keef has done in a week.

Hilarious that he gave his boy an extension as well

 

[colchar]

Clearly there are philosophical differences between coach Babcock and current analytics regime in the Maple Leafs front office.

The important difference is this I think.

What Babcock tried to do, was old school, mold the young team into men, into champions. Coach Babcock tried to find the right mix, and push everyone in the right direction.

"Play the right way."

"Be a good pro."

What coach Babcock was going to do, was he was going to do slowly. Remember when before the kids emerged? Babcock said, "There is going to be pain."

In other words, what Babcock wanted to do, was build a program, build a winning program, which takes some time.

What Dubas and the analytics people want to do, it is kind of different.

The analytics is not really building a hockey program, it is just finding the right numbers to fit into the lineup. If certain metrics are met, then it is great.

That is the big difference. Babcock needed the time. Analytics does not seem it needs that time.

According to some analytical sources, this Maple Leafs team is at a peak of performance. Say what?!

Seems like according to analytics, there is not much more room for improvement or upside. The analytics, therefore the team, those are at a peak.

With Babcock, everyday you had to improve on something. The player was always pushed to improve. The kids got tired of listening to that, and out went the coach, to be replaced by a "yes" man.

To me, with Babcock, there was always a sense of trying to build something, trying to improve, even though people disagreed with his methods.

Now with Dubas analytics, we no longer need to push to see improvement, because we have reached a good spot with the analytic numbers. To a lot of us, seems like we have reached a ceiling and now going sideways.

I hate analytics and the fact that Spreadsheet Dumbass is running this team but your memory of Babcock is a bit off. Yeah he was trying to build something, but he was also pulling stupid shit like he did with Spezza.

 

[colchar]

I can tell you haven't watched All or Nothing.

Care to enlighten those of us that haven't?

 

[colchar]

worried about PO results with a season that's 4 games on.

This group has been together a lot longer than four games. Its deficiencies have been evident for a lot longer than four games.

 

[Polaris1010]

I hate analytics and the fact that Spreadsheet Dumbass is running this team but your memory of Babcock is a bit off. Yeah he was trying to build something, but he was also pulling stupid shit like he did with Spezza.

What Babcock did with Spezza was on the petty side, but it was part of the power struggle going on too. To me it did not matter. Babcock was the coach. He plays who he wants, in order to win.

It's not about style, it's about results.

That is what they say in the NFL. At that level, only the results count.

Is professional hockey any different in the NHL? I hope not.

I got nothing against Spezza, but who the heck is he? I remember him playing for Ottawa all those years.

The organization should not be into glorifying the players.

It is what Lou said, the organization should be committed to winning.

After the lost at home to the Sharks who travelled playing back to back nights, then to lay an egg against the Penguins playing an AHL lineup, that speaks volumes.

We as fans will reach our own conclusions whether this Leafs organization is committed to winning or is it into glorifying the players regardless of what they accomplished.

Whatever Spezza accomplished, he did it somewhere else. Not sure why he should be afforded such reverence in Toronto.

 

[FiveHoleo]

Clearly there are philosophical differences between coach Babcock and current analytics regime in the Maple Leafs front office.

No, that is not clear at all and is 100% your conjecture. Babcock was let go because nice guy Kyle didn't like how Babcock treated Mitch Marner, and because the entitled players decided to quit trying until he was fired. Kyle Dubas decided that a hall of fame coach with a stellar record of success who led the team to the top of the league standings on a regular basis was not quite as important as looking like the good guy. He succumbed to the twitter mob's outrage about Mitch's delicate feelings being hurt and threw the baby out with the bathwater, thus ensuring that all future coaches will be suitably neutered when dealing with the players. He then installed a yes man to fill out the starting lineup, because you can't really call what Keefe does being a coach. He's more like Kyle Dubas' butler or something like that, but he's not a coach. The so called analytics regime in the Maple Leafs front office is a collection of monkeys with calculators throwing poop at each other. True story.

 

[Polaris1010]

No, that is not clear at all and is 100% your conjecture. Babcock was let go because nice guy Kyle didn't like how Babcock treated Mitch Marner, and because the entitled players decided to quit trying until he was fired. Kyle Dubas decided that a hall of fame coach with a stellar record of success who led the team to the top of the league standings on a regular basis was not quite as important as looking like the good guy. He succumbed to the twitter mob's outrage about Mitch's delicate feelings being hurt and threw the baby out with the bathwater, thus ensuring that all future coaches will be suitably neutered when dealing with the players. He then installed a yes man to fill out the starting lineup, because you can't really call what Keefe does being a coach. He's more like Kyle Dubas' butler or something like that, but he's not a coach. The so called analytics regime in the Maple Leafs front office is a collection of monkeys with calculators throwing poop at each other. True story.

Actually sir, I agree 1000% will what you are saying, exactly to a tee.

I was just trying to use polite words, to be diplomatic.

I didn't want to get banned again.

LOL.

 

[killer1980]

The trouble is, in this day and age, when every lying, cheating POS has to be listened to and has to be believed, a guy like Babcock stands no chance. I by no means like what this world has come to but the reality is it takes a special person to get this generation do what they're told. If I were GM, I would find players that fit the coach not vice versa. Keefe has no chance. These pretty boys have no respect for anyone but themselves. They'll chase out Keefe just like they did Babcock. Funny, the 2 coaches operate at opposite ends of the spectrim but since Dubas allows the players to run the team, the future remains bleak.

 

[colchar]

What Babcock did with Spezza was on the petty side, but it was part of the power struggle going on too. To me it did not matter. Babcock was the coach. He plays who he wants, in order to win.

The opening faceoff on opening night wouldn't make a difference to the team's fortunes, but it would make a difference to the player.

It's not about style, it's about results.

Again, the opening faceoff on opening night wouldn't make a difference.

That is what they say in the NFL.

I couldn't care less what they say in the National Felons League. I despise the NFL.

The organization should not be into glorifying the players.

But the organization should have some class and treat players well.

to lay an egg against the Penguins playing an AHL lineup, that speaks volumes.

That AHL lineup hasn't lost yet this season.

We as fans will reach our own conclusions whether this Leafs organization is committed to winning or is it into glorifying the players regardless of what they accomplished.

Whatever Spezza accomplished, he did it somewhere else. Not sure why he should be afforded such reverence in Toronto.

It is about respect, not sure why you are so against that or against doing something nice for someone.

You mention the NFL then speak out against glorifying players...you do realize they glorify players in the NFL all the time right? I don't even watch the league and even I know that.

 

[colchar]

No, that is not clear at all and is 100% your conjecture. Babcock was let go because nice guy Kyle didn't like how Babcock treated Mitch Marner, and because the entitled players decided to quit trying until he was fired. Kyle Dubas decided that a hall of fame coach with a stellar record of success who led the team to the top of the league standings on a regular basis was not quite as important as looking like the good guy. He succumbed to the twitter mob's outrage about Mitch's delicate feelings being hurt and threw the baby out with the bathwater, thus ensuring that all future coaches will be suitably neutered when dealing with the players. He then installed a yes man to fill out the starting lineup, because you can't really call what Keefe does being a coach. He's more like Kyle Dubas' butler or something like that, but he's not a coach. The so called analytics regime in the Maple Leafs front office is a collection of monkeys with calculators throwing poop at each other. True story.

Spreadsheet Dumbass didn't throw the baby out with the bathwater, Marner's still here.................

 

[Dreakmur]

The opening faceoff on opening night wouldn't make a difference to the team's fortunes, but it would make a difference to the player.

I took that mostly as Babcock telling Spezza that he wasn't playing the way he wanted him to play. Spezza said he was willing to play any role, but didn't do that to begin with. Pretty sure I remember Babcock talking about that during the pre-season.

 

[Polaris1010]

You mention the NFL then speak out against glorifying players...you do realize they glorify players in the NFL all the time right? I don't even watch the league and even I know that.

That's the NBA, that league is full of personal drama.

The NFL is totally brutal.

You're a hero one day, and then you're a bum the next day.

Get cut and there goes your contract worth millions.

They should have a similar system in the NHL. Get cut, and lose your contract.

 

[colchar]

I took that mostly as Babcock telling Spezza that he wasn't playing the way he wanted him to play. Spezza said he was willing to play any role, but didn't do that to begin with. Pretty sure I remember Babcock talking about that during the pre-season.

Doesn't matter, there was no excuse for it.

 

[colchar]

That's the NBA, that league is full of personal drama.

The NFL is totally brutal.

You're a hero one day, and then you're a bum the next day.

Get cut and there goes your contract worth millions.

They should have a similar system in the NHL. Get cut, and lose your contract.

They still glorify the players in the NFL.

 

[Menzinger]

I took that mostly as Babcock telling Spezza that he wasn't playing the way he wanted him to play. Spezza said he was willing to play any role, but didn't do that to begin with. Pretty sure I remember Babcock talking about that during the pre-season.

Babcock was making passive aggressive comments about Spezza before camp even started that offseason

Spezza like Holl, Leivo, Martin was just one of those guys Babcock had no interest in playing.

Edit: it caused immediate controversy in the Toronto media too, seems like it was Babs playing mind games with management at the expense of a well respected vet 'It's a joke': Reaction to Mike Babcock scratching Jason Spezza for Toronto Maple Leafs opener - TSN.ca

 

[Polaris1010]

They still glorify the players in the NFL.

I never seen that happen, and I watch a lot of football.

When Brady, the greatest of all time, started playing for his new team, there was no ceremony, before the game, at kickoff, during the game, or after the game.

The NFL, just suit up and play.

Spezza? What did the Leafs owe him?

 

[Dreakmur]

Doesn't matter, there was no excuse for it.

It matters. It's called accountability.

I could be wrong about why he did it... but, if he did it for the reason I think, it's 100% justified. It may even be the reason Spezza played so well after that.

 

[Dreakmur]

Spezza like Holl, Leivo, Martin was just one of those guys Babcock had no interest in playing.

Unlike Spezza, those other guys all suck.

 

[Antropovsky]

S

The Leafs were 9-10-4 when Babcock was fired. And 27 - 15 - 5 under Keefe.

It wasn't a bad decision.

Your forgetting that Babs was dealing with injuries, no backup and the most back to back games to start the season in a league. His record was bad given the circumstances. Oh and guess what the new guy (Keefe) is starting to question the same things Babcock was trying so hard to build in Toronto. Except Dubas kept trading away his guys for skill.

I think babs is prob an ass&$*÷ but hes a very well prepared coach. If every player on the team was as prepared and cared about winning as much as him, we would have at least one cup by now.

I dont care he's gone, but the right decision after him would've been someone like Trotz or Hitchcock.... not a guy with zero NHL experience.

 

[Antropovsky]

What the hell was shanahan thinking? Fire the gm with the most nhl experience, a coach with a cup and olympic championships and............ hire a rookie GM, let the rookie gm hire a rookie coach. The rookie gm gets rid of all the veteran leaders and hands the A's to a couple of guys who are a few years from being rookies and the captaincy to a player who just might be afraid of his own shadow.

Shanahan must have been giggling inside whenever he heard the phrase shanaplan.

 

[JayfromNB1219]

good grief really glad HF posters are never in a position for Leaf decision making

Babcock did not get the results OP is after

worried about PO results with a season that's 4 games on. Stop watching the Leafs now, tune in starting April.. or not who cares.

Don Cherry/Babcock/Burke? gtfo troll

heck of a lot closer than dubas has been...cause ohh feelings

 

[JayfromNB1219]

Babcock was abysmal.

What is this nonsense, revisionist history?

Babcock was done in by his stubbornness to never mix up certain lines, his biases towards players and his dislike of others, and his inability to change tactics. All three of those aspects make you a garbage coach.

Every stop he has made has had those same critiques. He had success in Detroit but was also blessed with depth and wealth.

I'm not saying the current Leafs coaching staff is good - but Babcock was terrible.

no huge babs fan but no just no dude Babs accomplished more with less than Keefe has had