I have reserved judgement, saying my piece in the offseason. I crawl from under my rock to explain the issues.

[Wiseguys]

When you have star players like Matthew's Marner and Nylander and the team seems like their struggling with them. Chances are expectations of a cup championship are going to be very slim moving forward. These type of players don't come around to form a team very often. A combination of wasted draft picks, player development, poor trades,and salary cap issues have created the current conditions, and that all falls on upper management, GM and President. God I miss the championship teams of the sixtie's, when watching a game was in black and white.

 

[myleafs]

There is really no reason to think Matthews can't win a cup in Toronto.

A lot can change over the next 5 years.

I would guess this will be the last year the 4 of them will be together unless they make it to the SCF.

The Leafs will need to bridge Knies or lock him up for a decent price, have Minten and Cowen to be able to contribute on ELC's, hit on their 1rst this year and wait for Tavares to come off the books.

Then 3 or 4 years from now, if the GM can slowly build the backend, they should have the cap to make a deep run.

Ill take that bet

 

[The Best Leafs Everr]

I like this thread topic (I agree with you), but we need to workshop through this problem.

There's no discussion if we declare that "it's over".

All the players you mention had expiring contracts and had a good chance of walking.

But a GM still has ways to clean up a team: demotions, waivers, trades, fire a coach, etc.

What practical advice would you give BT?

Pack your bags and go to Mars where no one can find you would be my one and only advice.

 

[myleafs]

Fingers are just crossed this is a team built for the playoffs and that they'll wake up at the right time I guess.

Weirder things have happened. I don't think this teams as strong of a team as last season, but hopefully Bertuzzi finds that next gear in the playoffs we've been craving for years.

Some sort of deal with Calgary around Bert would be what I would be looking at and at this stage Im ready to put Domi on waivers...With Bert the gameplan,style etc just doesnt seem to fit with the leafs or I would like to see Bert with Tavares and Knies as I think their styles would mesh better. The lines keep changing but its just the outer edges. M&M and Tavares Nylander have been cemented into their spots. If you lose 4 in a row and have 2 lines who have done dick all all season why not try something a little more drastic than moving marginal left wingers around on the top 2 lines?

 

[PROUD PAPA]

Meh, they just need another team meeting to talk things out.

Trouble is the team meetings are about rising inflation and how they should be getting paid more.

 

[rumman]

Lets face it the supporting cast has been flipped over several times, you’d have to be a idiot not to know where the real problem lies, as sad as that is it’s time to put things in focus……….

 

[Gary Nylund]

Fingers are just crossed this is a team built for the playoffs and that they'll wake up at the right time I guess.

Weirder things have happened. I don't think this teams as strong of a team as last season, but hopefully Bertuzzi finds that next gear in the playoffs we've been craving for years.

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Its just the Muskoka 5 all over again.

Not even close.

Muskoka 5 played with a ton of pride and grit. They actually made it to a couple conference finals to boot.

The legacy of this group will be one series win. They are a total joke compared to those early 2000s leafs

 

[All Mod Cons]

Ryan O'Reilly's been pretty good in Nashville, but Schenn got hurt right away so while we needed the 2022-23 versions of those guys I'm not sure how long they will be at that level either.

Also the team had some transition game issues down the stretch, in the Tampa series and were pretty bad in the Florida series, so we are misremembering how good the team was with those guys.

I hate to say it, but we miss the clean puckhandling of a Kerfoot, and the straightline rushing speed of an Engvall and Mikheyev. Not saying I miss those guys, but those ingredients are sorely absent.

I absolutely miss Mikheyev and Engvall and Hyman (among a few others).

 

[BrannigansLaw]

Not enough laughing emojis honestly. Imagine actually believing that lol

 

[thewave]

Its just the Muskoka 5 all over again.

Yes essentially that is exactly what they did here.

 

[Gilmour1996]

It's over, unless drastic changes are made from the top down. Ownership, President, GM, coach and most of the players need to GTFO. Keep AM, Rielly as C, Tavares without the C, possibly Nylander, our youth under 25, a scout or two and Brandon Pridham. Play hardball with Marner (no PP/no PK, 3rd line, criticize every mistake) until he accepts a trade.​

 

[thewave]

Fingers are just crossed this is a team built for the playoffs and that they'll wake up at the right time I guess.

Weirder things have happened. I don't think this teams as strong of a team as last season, but hopefully Bertuzzi finds that next gear in the playoffs we've been craving for years.

We don't have a playoff ready D core. I am not even talking contender, just playoffs. I think some AHL D cores could go toe to toe with us.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

Ill take that bet

I’m with you. I’d say 90% we have the core 4 through next season as well. We just can’t move any of them except Willy and he’s probably the second to last one you want to move. Stand pat, hope for a miracle this year and next, then make big moves for the 2025-2026 season.

 

[Evilhomer]

I’m with you. I’d say 90% we have the core 4 through next season as well. We just can’t move any of them except Willy and he’s probably the second to last one you want to move. Stand pat, hope for a miracle this year and next, then make big moves for the 2025-2026 season.

90%? I don't know how anyone can say it's less than 100%. The Leafs will resign Nylander, and that will guarantee all 4 of them back. The salary relief will come when Tavares resigns in a couple of years for a smaller annual number.

 

[1specter]

Lets face it the supporting cast has been flipped over several times, you’d have to be a idiot not to know where the real problem lies, as sad as that is it’s time to put things in focus……….

Yup. Also if you look at the starting lineup the last two seasons, many of those bottom six and depth guys we had aren't even in the NHL anymore or are deadweight. Trying to pin this strictly as a Treliving problem while whitewashing Dubas' moves that led us here is disingenuous.

 

[Rare Jewel]

I have said this about the Edmonton Oilers over the years and their lack of sustained success, but it's also true of the Leafs.

We are basically an NBA starting 5 with a revolving door of bench warmers.

I don't know if that's because the Big 4 and Rielly simply take up all the oxygen in the room... (I don't that's what it is, and they have been the only group that has come out and been productive...) or if we have basically developed a culture of mercenaries looking to 'bet on themselves' and ride the coattails to another UFA pay day... but in the process, everyone just looks like a misfit Nick Ritchie.

The thing is that NBA team can still win or get very close to it even with that group. The actual playing dynamics are way different, and success is dependent on a larger group in Hockey.

 

[BallardEra]

 

[BrannigansLaw]

View attachment 763536

Completely accurate.

I bet they’ll run it back again next year as well even if they miss the playoffs.

This organization has no balls to make the changes that should have been made after the Montreal embarrassment.

 

[PromisedLand]

Until Tavares and his 11 AAV is off the cap; and Marner/Nylander accept reasonable deals any talk of "CUP" is wishful thinking unless there is a miracle

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

Yup. M&M are the de facto leaders of the team, and neither one of them has leadership skills.

When Mitch had to negotiate the Alternate Captaincy letter on his last deal...that pretty much showed us the leader he was.

 

[usernamezrhardtodo]

I absolutely miss Mikheyev and Engvall and Hyman (among a few others).

I know a lot of people hated Engvall...but he is the type of softish player that you can have on your team if its not full of those types. He is doing fine on the Island with Lou because he is one of a few soft guys not one of the many like he was here. Same with Kerfoot. You can have a sprinkling of those guys...but not too many.

 

[notdoneyet]

Our problem is and has been for the last 5/6 years is defense. It’s the same every year. We have no toughness or size to clear the front of the net or block out the opposing forwards.
Look at Las Vegas defense. Built for playoff hockey. All big all strong and you have to fight to get to the net for a rebound.
Our defense let’s the opponent go hard to the new without having to pay a price

 

[Niagara Bill]

Domi...so far is a joke
Bert, so far is a disappointment
Reaves maybe be a DJ, but so far that is all.
Klingberg is laughable

But the real issue is, WE have only 1 defenceman, plus Lily....that's it, nada...
Have you ever heard of a coach telling the world his d was the most tired he had ever seen. Wow!

 

[centipede2233]

Our problem is and has been for the last 5/6 years is defense. It’s the same every year. We have no toughness or size to clear the front of the net or block out the opposing forwards.
Look at Las Vegas defense. Built for playoff hockey. All big all strong and you have to fight to get to the net for a rebound.
Our defense let’s the opponent go hard to the new without having to pay a price

This is very true. Same with that blues team and capitals team and Avalanche team. You need big strong defenders who offer good defence or good checking or both. How many leafs defencemen can you say has one of those 2 traits, maybe giordano Who not any fault of his own is old and is doing his best but can’t do it full time. look what Rutherford did in Vancouver, brought in Soucy and Cole. both Big strong defenders. We bring in klingberg…