Hypothetical - does McDavid win the Conn Smythe even if Oilers lose the cup? Assuming he has an above average finals

[Elvs]

The Smythe is definately gonna be his now. He stepped up big time tonight. This is by far the best I've seen him in a big game. For all of the points what he have accumilated, winning in the playoffs is all about getting timely goals. His 3-0 goal in this game was of greater importance than all of his previous final points combined. He had one of his best games ever when it truly mattered. Meanwhile the Panthers look nervous. They have to consider starting Stolarz next.

 

[bobholly39]

The Smythe is definately gonna be his now. He stepped up big time tonight. This is by far the best I've seen him in a big game. For all of the points what he have accumilated, winning in the playoffs is all about getting timely goals. His 3-0 goal in this game was of greater importance than all of his previous final points combined. He had one of his best games ever when it truly mattered. Meanwhile the Panthers look nervous. They have to consider starting Stolarz next.

Definitely a huge game. Everytime he got the puck he was generating something, he also had some really big defensive plays, especially in the 3rd, and then of course scored that huge empty netter to seal the deal.

 

[Peltz]

Give it to McDavid

 

[syz]

Thing to keep in mind as well is that if the SCF goes to 7 games the votes happen during the 2nd intermission, so nobody voting actually knows who's going to win (unless it's a blowout at that point.) When Giguere won in 03 the game was 2-0 after 2 so the Ducks still had a chance when they were voting.

That said even if the Oilers lose in 6 at this point I still think McDavid wins.

 

[Buck Naked]

Thing to keep in mind as well is that if the SCF goes to 7 games the votes happen during the 2nd intermission, so nobody voting actually knows who's going to win (unless it's a blowout at that point.)

Still a major factor when considering that people talk about "if Bob has a 50 save shutout". There's no way to know that at the time of voting. And I doubt that the journalists will vote for a goalie on a team up 2-0 while being dominated statistically by McDavid & Co with a period to go.

Bob's chances should be zero from here on out.

 

[Letsdothis]

Thing to keep in mind as well is that if the SCF goes to 7 games the votes happen during the 2nd intermission, so nobody voting actually knows who's going to win (unless it's a blowout at that point.) When Giguere won in 03 the game was 2-0 after 2 so the Ducks still had a chance when they were voting.

They vote for two scenarios (either team winning) in that case.

 

[WalterLundy]

Gretzky in 84-85: 47 points in 18 games --> Next closest: Coffey with 37 points in 18 games
(10 point lead over second place)

Lemieux in 90-91: 44 points in 23 games --> Next closest: Recchi with 34 points in 24 games
(10 point lead over second place)

Gretzky in 87-88: 43 points in 19 games --> Next closest: Messier with 34 points in 19 games
(9 point lead over second place)

McDavid in 23-24: 42 points in 23 games --> Next closest: Bouchard with 32 points in 23 games
(10 point lead over second place)

So yeah, McDavid's current run is right there with peak Gretzky and Lemieux .

And if you compare to closest non teammate (not just second place as the same team can skew it) it breaks this tie so to speak. McDavid has a 20 point gap on Tkachuk. Next closest is Gretzky twice with 18 point gaps on Savard and Linesman in 85 and 88 respectively. Could very well be the best run we have ever seen

 

[BagHead]

Well, I changed my vote to yes.

 

[KCC]

Bob has been awful the last few games and Mcdavid has as many points as barkov and tkachuk combined these playoffs. How is it not him so far?

It's people like this that are so certain of being right, that I make money gambling.

Dumb opinion, spread as fact.

I love it.

McDavid deserves the Smythe. Breaking assist record, may in fact break the Cup finals points record. Win or lose. Trophies his. For his sake, hope Skinner holds up. That's the only question mark in my "dumb" opinion

Yup. He needs 2 more solid games. If he pulls a recent Bob in either one it’s over.

 

[ricky0034]

if he doesn't at this point then nobody should take the award seriously ever again

 

[abo9]

Funny how this thread went from comparing the Oilers to the Leafs (which was always laughable) to "McDavid clutchest player ever" in the span of 2 games.

Win or lose, McDavid is pulling his weight and more. I really hope he wins, stuff like calling "Cup or bust" at the start of the year (ala Ovechkin with the "We won't suck this year", just makes for such fun storylines.
McDavid is the most dominant player in decades, in both the playoffs and regular season.

And, I'll say it, it's not even close.

Bob has been awful the last few games and Mcdavid has as many points as barkov and tkachuk combined these playoffs. How is it not him so far?


Yup. He needs 2 more solid games. If he pulls a recent Bob in either one it’s over.

McDavid is having the best playoffs of the Cap era (idk enough about hockey history for previous years).

If he doesn't win the CS, the league need to update the description of the award to "The playoff MVP on the winning team's roster".

 

[paragon]

At this point I think he should win.

 

[kevsh]

If he doesn't win the CS, the league need to update the description of the award to "The playoff MVP on the winning team's roster".

I don't disagree entirely, I just don't get how someone is rewarded for being valuable in a loss?

The same philosophy that is used for the Hart which dictates that players on non-playoff teams have no chance of winning.

So either update the criteria for both awards, which I have advocated for previously, to something like "best performance of the season/playoffs" and then McDavid almost certainly bags the CS, or leave it as is, in which case it's "the most valuable player on the team that won".

 

[NJDevs26]

If he doesn't win it at this point then no player from the losing team should ever get the Smythe again (barring the Oilers actually completing the comeback anyway)

 

[NJDevs26]

I don't disagree entirely, I just don't get how someone is rewarded for being valuable in a loss?

The same philosophy that is used for the Hart which dictates that players on non-playoff teams have no chance of winning.

So either update the criteria for both awards, which I have advocated for previously, to something like "best performance of the season/playoffs" and then McDavid almost certainly bags the CS, or leave it as is, in which case it's "the most valuable player on the team that won".

It 'has been' for four rounds of the playoffs, word for word that's the description Bettman gave just before handing it to Giguere in 2003.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

How many past winners have there been from the losing team?

 

[Buck Naked]

I don't disagree entirely, I just don't get how someone is rewarded for being valuable in a loss?

Because the playoffs consist of more than the last cup clinching game.

 

[Bertuzzzi44]

Don't like a losing team's player getting the Conn Smythe.

It's odd and the player doesn't want to be there either in the middle of the other team's celebration. Give it to the most deserving player on the winning team, after all their MVP performance actually got the job done.

Agree. Should be celebrated by the winning team, would be really weird for a losing player to come on to the ice in front of the celebrating team, player wouldn’t even come out lol

 

[Cyclones Rock]

How many past winners have there been from the losing team?

History of Conn Smythe Winners in Losing Efforts - The Hockey Writers Hockey History Latest News, Analysis & More

The Conn Smythe Trophy, awarded to the NHL's playoff MVP, has been given to five players whose teams did not win the Stanley Cup.

thehockeywriters.com

According to this 5 times. 4 goalies and one forward-Reggie Leach of the Flyers in 1976.

 

[HabsQC]

Yes I think he wins it now like many of you. Question is now : Will he win it sadly or happily ? In other words, will it be while winning the cup or losing the cup

 

[Cup or Bust]

The questions was an above average finals. If the question was if McDavid has a legendary Cup final and absolutely dominates at a Gretzky and Lemieux level and the Oilers lose does he win the Conn Smythe, I guess my vote is now yes.

 

[Video Nasty]

Looks like another argument is falling by the wayside. “His PPG will decline in the third and fourth rounds.”

This postseason:

Rounds 1 and 2: 21 points in 12 games (1.75 PPG)
Rounds 3 and 4: 22 points in 11 games (2.00 PPG)

Worth noting that he has as many goals and points in the Finals as the next three players on the roster combined.

He has factored in on 64.7% of the Oilers goals in the SCF.

 

[Tobias Kahun]

Looks like another argument is falling by the wayside. “His PPG will decline in the third and fourth rounds.”

This postseason:

Rounds 1 and 2: 21 points in 12 games (1.75 PPG)
Rounds 3 and 4: 22 points in 11 games (2.00 PPG)

Worth noting that he has as many goals and points in the Finals as the next three players on the roster combined.

Still waiting for him to play a good team.

 

[GoldenSeal]

A goalie isn't winning the Conn Smythe this year. Like I said a week ago, it's going to be McDavid. There's no way it won't be, no matter who hoists the Cup. McDavid's playoff stats are setting records and are a huge reason the Oilers are in it. Bob's stats, while his performance in the Finals up to Game 3 was legendary, his playoff stats this year are very mortal, no matter how much he means to the team. Oilers were doomed when McDavid wasn't showing up, but when he started to, they started to bury the Cats. That speaks volumes.

 

[BraveCanadian]

Boy the narrative sure changed in 2 games, didn’t it?