OT: Hurricanes Lounge XLVI: Really, It's All About Beer and Bojangles

[Blueline Bomber]

I mean, that guy could also just be like “hey I know I’m a sketchy dude but here’s 15 pieces of evidence that prove I wasn’t even in the same state as this incident”.

Attempting to pin it on a rando would be an insane gambit.

Depends on how much pressure they’re under to wrap up the case. Which, I imagine, would be quite a lot. Don’t want the working class to start targeting the elites, after all.

They could pin it on a rando, claim they have all this evidence against him, and then this rando has “an accident/suicide attempt” before he ever presents his side of the story.

 

[MinJaBen]

Depends on how much pressure they’re under to wrap up the case. Which, I imagine, would be quite a lot. Don’t want the working class to start targeting the elites, after all.

So to keep the working class from targeting elites, the elites are going to frame someone from the working class? And if the working class gets wind of this?

Not very elite thinking if you ask me.

 

[tarheelhockey]

So to keep the working class from targeting elites, the elites are going to frame someone from the working class? And if the working class gets wind of this?

Not very elite thinking if you ask me.

In the current climate, an “accident” involving this particular suspect would not be a smart move on any level. Especially not for an FBI that’s already going to be attacked by its own administration in a few months.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

So to keep the working class from targeting elites, the elites are going to frame someone from the working class? And if the working class gets wind of this?

They'll do...what? We already know police put innocent people in jail. We already know that people who become a threat to the rich and powerful have ways of coincidentally dying (Boeing whistleblowers, Epstein, etc). So if they do it again, and the working class finds out, they'll do the same thing they did about the other situations...nothing.

But if this guy walks free and the NYPD just throws up their hands and say "Well, we can't find the guy"? That opens the door for copycats, even more than may already be emboldened as such.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

In the current climate, an “accident” involving this particular suspect would not be a smart move on any level. Especially not for an FBI that’s already going to be attacked by its own administration in a few months.

Didn't Epstein happen during his first administration?

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Has anyone else been following the stuff that's coming out about the guys that fought Biz? This is like a made for TV movie as the guys are apparently part of an Irish Traveller's community and have been running paving scams across multiple states.

 

[tarheelhockey]

Has anyone else been following the stuff that's coming out about the guys that fought Biz? This is like a made for TV movie as the guys are apparently part of an Irish Traveller's community and have been running paving scams across multiple states.

If I learned anything from Peaky Blinders, it’s that these people should be left alone.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Has anyone else been following the stuff that's coming out about the guys that fought Biz? This is like a made for TV movie as the guys are apparently part of an Irish Traveller's community and have been running paving scams across multiple states.

Yeah, apparently their scams were pretty well known in the area. I have to imagine the rest of that community isn't happy they drew so much press. Probably makes it harder to operate for a while

 

[Blueline Bomber]

The shooter’s official mugshot.

 

[MinJaBen]

The shooter’s official mugshot.

Looks like someone gave him a few pointers before the mug shot.

 

[tarheelhockey]

The best part of this is going back through the expert commentary claiming the escape could only have been committed by a hardened assassin and criminal mastermind. Then they find the guy literally sitting in a McDonalds with a bag of evidence

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Looks like someone gave him a few pointers before the mug shot.

I just love how thirsty everyone is over this guy. “He’s going straight to horny jail”, “He’ll have a long line of conjugal visits”, etc.

The best part of this is going back through the expert commentary claiming the escape could only have been committed by a hardened assassin and criminal mastermind. Then they find the guy literally sitting in a McDonalds with a bag of evidence

It’s looking like he wanted to be caught. 5 days later, he’s out in public with basically the same outfit, carrying around his manifesto about why he did it, and releasing an (apparently pre-planned) video today that starts “if you’re watching this, I’ve been arrested.”

 

[Surrounded By Ahos]

The best part of this is going back through the expert commentary claiming the escape could only have been committed by a hardened assassin and criminal mastermind. Then they find the guy literally sitting in a McDonalds with a bag of evidence

A McDonalds in Altoona. There's nothing there. When I heard he got caught in Pennsylvania I assumed he was in Philly or Reading or Allentown.

Not Altoona. That's nowheresville. It's the NC equilvant of Mt Airy.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

A McDonalds in Altoona. There's nothing there. When I heard he got caught in Pennsylvania I assumed he was in Philly or Reading or Allentown.

Not Altoona. That's nowheresville. It's the NC equilvant of Mt Airy.

Yeah, that’s why I thought they just found a scapegoat at first. The gun he apparently used is commonly used for euthanizing cattle, and Altoona is in rural PA. I wouldn’t be surprised if half the population there has “a gun similar to the one used in the shooting.”

 

[tarheelhockey]

A McDonalds in Altoona. There's nothing there. When I heard he got caught in Pennsylvania I assumed he was in Philly or Reading or Allentown.

Not Altoona. That's nowheresville. It's the NC equilvant of Mt Airy.

Altoona… where Sheetz is headquartered.

What’s the connection to Sheetz? The mystery deepens.

 

[MinJaBen]

Don’t want the working class to start targeting the elites, after all.

Plot twist....it was the elites targeting the elites all along.

Oh, well.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Plot twist....it was the elites targeting the elites all along.

Oh, well.

And the person who turned him in likely can’t afford health insurance. Talk about a clusterf***.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

And the person who turned him in likely can’t afford health insurance. Talk about a clusterf***.

Whether some feel his actions were justified, some people are brought up with morals to do the right thing, regardless of personal implications. Maybe the person who turned him in felt they were doing the right thing based on their upbringing, regardless of their own personal situation?

Or, possibly they didn't care and they wanted the reward money.

 

[bleedgreen]

While some people sympathize with the why, murdering people in cold blood isn’t right. I agree with @Derailed75 earlier in the thread talking about billing. No small part of this is how outrageously hospitals and health care in general overbills for simple procedures and equipment used. Is it reactionary to something else in the machine? Maybe, if we’re going to go around killing each other over it maybe we should investigate that instead of killing the figurehead at the top.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Whether some feel his actions were justified, some people are brought up with morals to do the right thing, regardless of personal implications. Maybe the person who turned him in felt they were doing the right thing based on their upbringing, regardless of their own personal situation?

Or, possibly they didn't care and they wanted the reward money.

Don't get me wrong, if I had the opportunity and I believed I'd get the reward money promised, I'd probably alert the police as well. But based off what I've heard, the "reward money for tips to help catch criminals" rarely comes to pass, and when it does, it's always far, far less than promised. The loophole they always use is they promise "up to X amount of dollars", and if they do end up catching the person, they can offer you very little since any amount is "up to" that amount. And they'd argue they would have eventually caught the person with or without the tip, so the tipster should be happy they got anything.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

I agree with @Derailed75 earlier in the thread talking about billing. No small part of this is how outrageously hospitals and health care in general overbills for simple procedures and equipment used. Is it reactionary to something else in the machine? Maybe, if we’re going to go around killing each other over it maybe we should investigate that instead of killing the figurehead at the top.

I think the problem is that those in charge in our gov't are getting paid gobs of money, directed by the figurehead at the top, through lobbyists and Pacs to ensure it's not investigated.

CEO pay is largely driven by company stock and profits. While some have said it's the CEO's job to make as much profit as possible, that's only partially true, and it's only true at all if it's ethical. If we ignore the ethics part, you get the Sackler family. And after everything was said and done, the Sackler's still walked away with $11B, so what's the incentive to act ethically by any CEO or company in the health care field?

My personal view is that the system doesn't need minor tweaks like investigating over-billing, even if that might help. The systems needs to be completely overhauled, but I highly doubt it happens anytime soon. Murdering people isn't the answer.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Don't get me wrong, if I had the opportunity and I believed I'd get the reward money promised, I'd probably alert the police as well. But based off what I've heard, the "reward money for tips to help catch criminals" rarely comes to pass, and when it does, it's always far, far less than promised. The loophole they always use is they promise "up to X amount of dollars", and if they do end up catching the person, they can offer you very little since any amount is "up to" that amount. And they'd argue they would have eventually caught the person with or without the tip, so the tipster should be happy they got anything.

My post wasn't specifically about the reward. Your post said that the person that turned him in "likely can't afford health insurance" which thus implies that they are shooting their own foot off by turning this guy in, or at least seemed to question why they may have turned him in.

My point was that whether or not the person could, or could not afford health insurance may be irrelevant for two reasons I stated, or a host of other reasons. Murder is wrong and they simply may not have wanted to let a murderer get away, or wanted a reward, or a bunch of other reasons.

 

[bleedgreen]

Sounds like he came from a well off family. He had a lot of back struggles and was dealing with a lot of pain post op. I get it. I just lost a year of my life to back surgery and almost lost my career. The surgeon denied that the new pain I immediately had post op had anything to do with the surgery and while it’s calmed down it’s apparent I’ll be dealing with it for probably life. I’ve had back pain for 30 years so it’s not that earth shattering to have more and generally the surgery helped but if I was a 20 something and I was facing all this I would be struggling mentally with the lack of answers, accountability, and reasons to be hopeful about my future. Dealing with daily pain you aren’t used to can change a person.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

The health insurance comment was more about the irony than anything else.

Also, I don't think it's as black and white as "murder is wrong." There's lots of cases of justifiable homicide. Do any apply here? No. Because even if you argue that this CEO leads a company that causes irreparable harm to many of its clients, killing him doesn't change that fact. I believe I read UHC had a board meeting the day of the shooting, hours after he was killed, that cut the benefits of even more people.

Is the murder understandable? I'd argue probably. As bleed said, he just (apparently) had back surgery that, presumably, UHC wormed their way out of paying for. Pain and anger can cause people to do foolish things, especially if it's a pain that they will be dealing with their entire life

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

The health insurance comment was more about the irony than anything else.

Also, I don't think it's as black and white as "murder is wrong." There's lots of cases of justifiable homicide. Do any apply here? No. Because even if you argue that this CEO leads a company that causes irreparable harm to many of its clients, killing him doesn't change that fact. I believe I read UHC had a board meeting the day of the shooting, hours after he was killed, that cut the benefits of even more people.

That's not correct, it is black and white. Murder, legally defined, is ALWAYS wrong. "Justifiable Homicide" isn't considered "Murder". One is considered lawful and one unlawful.

Murder has a legal definition of unlawfully killing someone with malice aforethought. That can either be premeditated (1st degree) or in the heat of the moment (2nd degree). This was clearly 1st degree (presuming he did it, doesn't have an insanity plea, and is convicted).

Justifiable Homicide is killing of a person with no criminal intent or blame, and is considered a non-criminal act, such as self defense or to stop a violent crime, etc...

It's fair to say killing a human being isn't always wrong, but Murder is always wrong.