Confirmed with Link: Hurricanes extend PNC Arena lease for 20 years, Govt allocates $300m to arena renovation, Gale Force at least $800m to land development of the complex

[Svechhammer]

I mean I SOMEWHAT get the first point. But the arena has sufficient area to put those in WITHOUT having to cut down on restroom space. Outright removing a good amount of men's room space is going to go over with the fanbase like a lead balloon considering that the vast majority of use the arena gets is events where the ratio of men to women is close to 70/30 (Canes and Wolfpack BB). The #1 complaint to begin with is about the lack of restroom availability overall with that sort of demographic split so guarantee you're going to start seeing guys hijacking the family restroom space if needed. And it WILL be needed.

Personally I'm a fan of them adding a sensory room on each floor though, when I get migraines they can get so bad that I can't even manage stairs since I occasionally get vertigo as part of it.

You know I'm reading this again, and maybe I misinterpreted the proposal a bit here. From what I can see, they might be talking about flipping which restrooms are men's and women's on the 3rd level so that they can expand the women's restrooms into empty space that is currently adjacent to the men's restrooms. So if that's the case, maybe they aren't talking about removing any from the men.

But

They also still do not say anything about improving the restroom situation for men, only increasing the number of stalls for women. I sure as hell hope they do have plans for completely overhauling getting into and out of the restrooms for both genders, because the current bathroom situation at PNC is awful.

 

[HisIceness]

Last game I attended was season opener (a Saturday night) 2017 vs Minnesota, a sell-out. The restroom situation was, okay I guess? The line moved at a good pace at both intermissions, but I noticed the women's restrooms had no lines. Plenty of females at this game too.

 

[chaz4hockey]

Stepping back on re-looking at the details, it's apparent that improvement to the fan experience is a smaller part of the spend (ie markedly expanding food choices, improving seats/changing seat backs, expanded bathrooms, etc.).

Rather changing the stadium facade, getting better delivery locations for shows and setting the stage for the major development projects to come (expanding walkways downstairs is a big plus though).

It's a measure of today's highly inflationary times that $300M doesn't really get you much. If they had done this project 5 years ago there would be much more delivered.

 

[Svechhammer]

Stepping back on re-looking at the details, it's apparent that improvement to the fan experience is a smaller part of the spend (ie markedly expanding food choices, improving seats/changing seat backs, expanded bathrooms, etc.).

Rather changing the stadium facade, getting better delivery locations for shows and setting the stage for the major development projects to come (expanding walkways downstairs is a big plus though).

It's a measure of today's highly inflationary times that $300M doesn't really get you much. If they had done this project 5 years ago there would be much more delivered.

To be fair, the entertainment district around the arena could play a large part into not needing the major internal improvements you'd normally expect.

If they can widen the concourse, streamline the restroom process, and give us a few more options to see the bowl from the concourse, then I think it'll be a win for the fans. They're already baking in a beer garden by the entrance and looks to be tripling the size of the team store, so those should already play nicely, if you build up the entertainment area around the arena, you might be able to reduce the number of food concessions inside the arena and still make things better for the fans.

 

[HisIceness]

I think we should tear it down and start again. Wider concourses, more bathrooms, more leg room, more food options, bigger team store, open-air fan zone in the upper end zone.

 

[chaz4hockey]

I think we should tear it down and start again. Wider concourses, more bathrooms, more leg room, more food options, bigger team store, open-air fan zone in the upper end zone.

Agree with your thoughts but price tags start with a B and I doubt NC/Dundon have the stomach for that. A recent article on stadium costs:

Plans abounding for new sports stadiums across the U.S.

A new wave of sports facility construction is underway.

spectrumlocalnews.com

 

[CandyCanes]

Agree with your thoughts but price tags start with a B and I doubt NC/Dundon have the stomach for that. A recent article of stadium costs:

Plans abounding for new sports stadiums across the U.S.

A new wave of sports facility construction is underway.

spectrumlocalnews.com

That number starting with a B is going to be the biggest hurdle for MLB Raleigh

 

[tarheelhockey]

Tear it down, keep digging down to make an in-ground arena. Build a casino on top of it.

Should pay for itself in a few years.

 

[LakeLivin]

I think we should tear it down and start again. Wider concourses, more bathrooms, more leg room, more food options, bigger team store, open-air fan zone in the upper end zone.

Need to wait until the UNC Hockey Club completes their arena so the Canes can play there while the new one is being built. Screw Greensboro, go the 'Yotes route!

 

[HisIceness]

Need to wait until the UNC Hockey Club completes their arena so the Canes can play there while the new one is being built. Screw Greensboro, go the 'Yotes route!

Hell I say play at Dorton. Visiting teams think PNC locker rooms suck? They'll love them once they play at Dorton haha

 

[Svechhammer]

First renderings of the Entertainment district

 

[the halleJOKEL]

and the associated article: Raleigh Sports & Entertainment District Unveils First Look At Mixed-Use Development | Carolina Hurricanes

 

[Svechhammer]

Raleigh Sports & Entertainment District Unveils First Look At Mixed-Use Development | Carolina Hurricanes

Phase One to include expanded plaza and promenade with tailgating suites

www.nhl.com

The new tailgating experience will be directly adjacent to a 4,300-seat music venue operated by Live Nation and part of a larger five-acre tailgating space, including the plaza between Carter-Finley Stadium and PNC Arena, which will also receive improvements. Enhanced tailgating and pre- and post-game entertainment options range from well-appointed luxury suites to roomy balconies and community spaces, new food and beverage offerings, a promenade and stage for live entertainment, and elevated amenities like convenient restrooms and additional quick and easy parking. Construction of the first phase also includes two parking garages that line either side of the tailgating experience, which is projected to be completed in time for the 2027 Wolfpack football season.

Its interesting. Looks like the parking decks will have space on the edges bordering that plaza that will allow for covered tailgating, and won't necessarily be lined with bars. That could be a very interesting concept, and something that could work well if they pull it off, or something that doesn't work at all. Also a little skeptical on the below tailgating suites. Not sure how that will translate for hockey, but I'm game if the price is right

 

[SweetStormRising]

My parking spot still exists!!! sorry west lot people

 

[cptjeff]

The parking decks will definitely be welcome for those that don't tailgate, if anything they should make them a lot larger. Walking to some of those further flung lots gets ridiculous. Bring more parking closer.

 

[chaz4hockey]

The parking decks will definitely be welcome for those that don't tailgate, if anything they should make them a lot larger. Walking to some of those further flung lots gets ridiculous. Bring more parking closer.

Parking decks = a very miserable experience entering and exiting of Lenovo arena.

I expect this topic will get a lot of future coverage on social media as the project finalizes (HF, X, Reddit, etc.).

btw: I wonder which stadium exterior view they went with?

and the associated article: Raleigh Sports & Entertainment District Unveils First Look At Mixed-Use Development | Carolina Hurricanes

"Pacific Elm Properties and Gale Force Sports and Entertainment announced plans today for the Raleigh Sports & Entertainment District, the new $1B mixed-use development surrounding the arena that serves as home to the Carolina Hurricanes and NC State basketball. "

State football should be included too since it is impacted as well.

 

[Svechhammer]

Parking decks = a very miserable experience entering and exiting of Lenovo arena.

I expect this topic will get a lot of future coverage on social media as the project finalizes (HF, X, Reddit, etc.).

Maybe

If they streamline your ability to GTFO of the arena complex and allow people to freeflow onto 40/Wade it could work really well, but if they don't it'll be a major clusterf***. I do know they are completely overhauling the traffic patterns, so I have hope it can work

 

[DaveG]

Maybe

If they streamline your ability to GTFO of the arena complex and allow people to freeflow onto 40/Wade it could work really well, but if they don't it'll be a major clusterf***. I do know they are completely overhauling the traffic patterns, so I have hope it can work

This is the huge if here. Traffic getting onto 40/Wade if you're not one of the first people out of the arena right now is an absolute disaster as currently situated. Parking decks will make it significantly worse if they don't fix that, but if they can fix it that's a huge upgrade. I don't think it'll make much of a difference for incoming traffic, that's always a clusterf***, especially if you're trying to get in via Edwards Mill and they push you to Blue Ridge needlessly.

 

[chaz4hockey]

This is the huge if here. Traffic getting onto 40/Wade if you're not one of the first people out of the arena right now is an absolute disaster as currently situated. Parking decks will make it significantly worse if they don't fix that, but if they can fix it that's a huge upgrade. I don't think it'll make much of a difference for incoming traffic, that's always a clusterf***, especially if you're trying to get in via Edwards Mill and they push you to Blue Ridge needlessly.

Anyone who has ventured into Chapel Hill for a UNC FB game and parked in one of their decks probably understands the inherent challenges of garage entry and exit during an event.

Of course, UNC's stadium is in the Town and a bit away from I40 but what a PIA it is to park there.

btw: don't forget today, parking is only taken up by employees and fans attending the game. When the entertainment district is built (along with hotels and apartments) there will be thousands more flocking to the area on game day. I'm betting it's going to be a cluster blank.

 

[Svechhammer]

This is the huge if here. Traffic getting onto 40/Wade if you're not one of the first people out of the arena right now is an absolute disaster as currently situated. Parking decks will make it significantly worse if they don't fix that, but if they can fix it that's a huge upgrade. I don't think it'll make much of a difference for incoming traffic, that's always a clusterf***, especially if you're trying to get in via Edwards Mill and they push you to Blue Ridge needlessly.

They have to fix the Edwards Mill and 40/Wade intersection. Right now, if you're trying to come down EM, you get absolutely stuck at that light because traffic off the highway completely fills the space and getting into the arena can be so lengthy that you'll miss an entire light cycle and it just continues endlessly. The Stadium Series game turned that stretch from 40 to Duraleigh into a parking lot, with people stuck in it for upwards of 3 to 4 hours. If anything, they need to have a direct inflow from 40 into the arena complex, bypassing Edwards Mill, that alone would ease some major bottlenecking.

From the concepts, it does look like the parking garage is in the exact spot to send everyone straight onto 40. Expand that exit a bit and it should help a lot, especially if it means having significantly fewer vehicles trying to go around the arena and exit onto Edwards Mill.

 

[Svechhammer]

Back to the renovations themselves. Its worth noting that with the District concept, it does look like they are settling for the 'S/M' concept of the arena renovation that was presented earlier, rather than the L

 

[chaz4hockey]

Back to the renovations themselves. Its worth noting that with the District concept, it does look like they are settling for the 'S/M' concept of the arena renovation that was presented earlier, rather than the L

L is better but the S/M made sense fiscally given the "limited" amount of $ available.

 

[Svechhammer]

L is better but the S/M made sense fiscally given the "limited" amount of $ available.

I also think the S/M concept leaves room for them to add a rooftop bar or lounge over the main entrance overlooking the plaza right after the district is fully complete. With the L concept, it was all going to just be vaulted wasted space, so whats the point in backing yourself into a corner like that?

 

[chaz4hockey]

I also think the S/M concept leaves room for them to add a rooftop bar or lounge over the main entrance overlooking the plaza right after the district is fully complete. With the L concept, it was all going to just be vaulted wasted space, so whats the point in backing yourself into a corner like that?

true but if you have that entertainment district just a few steps away, I'd suggest the bar/lounge might not be needed.

 

[Svechhammer]

true but if you have that entertainment district just a few steps away, I'd suggest the bar/lounge might not be needed.

Possibly. But then again, it could just be another restaurant or bar that is open all year round. Or you could use the space for anything, maybe even expanding the Canes offices into the area and whatnot.

Also, I did just stumble across this proposal from last year. https://wwwcache.wralsportsfan.com/...g_Presentation_2023.02.14-DMID1-5xx8f80sl.pdf

Quite a lot of what is covered in that presentation actually made it through to the main renderings that were shared this year. Couple things worth noting, because I wouldn't be shocked if they still end up happening.... The 2023 presentation called for 2 View bars in the 300 level and 2 more added to the main bowl, next to the Buffalo Brothers area, opening the main concourse to the bowl. That would completely change the feel of the main bowl, and I think for the better.

Also, the 2024 proposal called for the infill of a bunch of stairwells, and I have struggled to understand how that could help with the crowding in the concourse. The 2023 presentation actually demonstrated how it would: