Hurricanes after 2006

[Hockey2Hockey]

Did anyone think the Hurricanes were destined to repeat in 07. Or, did you think 06 was a one off? I remember watching them in 06 and not being very impressed. They seemed to get alot of breaks (Koivu eye injury, Sabres having no D left, and Roloson injury).

What say you?

 

[MadLuke]

-A bit of a south east inflated regular season record,

-Hot rookie/unproven goaltending (once they went with Ward),

-Did not face any particularly good team in the playoff.
Sabres could have been great but, like always for them injury did rack up that post season (Talinder and and other big piece D, I would imagine Connolly but I can be mixing up with 2007 injuries issues)

- Couple of important rental like Recchi-Weight that would leave.

Did not thought of them as a particularly likely repeater no, if they keep Gerber in (say he is just a bit less terrible) with Koivu, maybe MTL win that round...

 

[Michael Farkas]

Yeah, that ^ didn't think much of them at the time...

 

[JackSlater]

Did not expect much from them after 2006. Pretty old team and as alluded to already very (very) fortunate with how healthy its opposition was (or was not) in the 2006 playoffs. 2006 was also just a weird year as teams adjusted to how things were called/played compared to 2004.

 

[WarriorofTime]

They were built on a trade deadline and a hot powerplay in the year of the powerplay

2006-07 NHL Preseason Odds | Hockey-Reference.com

Check out the Preseason Odds to win the Stanley Cup, and over-unders for the 2006-07 NHL season on Hockey-Reference.com

www.hockey-reference.com

if sportsoddshistory.com is accurate, they were +1200 in a four-way tie for third most likely to win Cup heading into 2006-07 season.

For comparison, Edmonton and Florida (last year finalist) were two most likely winners this year at +800 and +900 respectively (and sure enough, one of them will win in a SCF rematch).

 

[jigglysquishy]

I'll be honest, at no point in the 05-06 season did I think the Hurricanes had a real shot. It wasn't until two underdogs made the final when it dawned on me that maybe it wasn't the Red Wings' year.

 

[sr edler]

Twas a strange season but Carolina were good all year that season, it's not like they came out of nowhere in the playoffs, they were somewhat of a top team in the RS. Eric Staal just boomed out of the gates during the regular season and looked like the next best thing since sliced bread. Then come playoff time they loaded up with some sneaky veterans (Weight and Recchi) and the rest is history.

 

[vikash1987]

Did not face any particularly good team in the playoff.
Sabres could have been great but, like always for them injury did rack up that post season

I’d challenge that. Carolina’s 2nd round opponent was New Jersey. Entering that series, the Devils were riding a 15-game winning streak: 11 game win streak to close the regular season (an NHL record, if not mistaken) plus a 4-game sweep of the Rangers in Round 1. They were unquestionably a dangerous opponent for Carolina, entering the series—Brodeur, Elias, Gionta, et al. were on top of their game.

The Canes did an amazing job winning that series.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Twas a strange season but Carolina were good all year that season, it's not like they came out of nowhere in the playoffs, they were somewhat of a top team in the RS. Eric Staal just boomed out of the gates during the regular season and looked like the next best thing since sliced bread. Then come playoff time they loaded up with some sneaky veterans (Weight and Recchi) and the rest is history.

And with no prior season, the usual “base” (which is prior year playoffs, then make your typical adjustment for who teams added/subtracted, which players are rising ir falling, etc.) is missing entirely.

 

[Brodeur]

I didn't think they would repeat but I didn't think they'd miss the playoffs either. My knee jerk thought seeing the thread title was the Jack Johnson trade.

Hurricanes D Kaberle out 4-6 months after surgery

The Hurricanes announced Monday that defenseman Frantisek Kaberle underwent shoulder surgery and will be sidelined at least four months.

www.espn.com.sg

Right before training camp, they announced that Frantisek Kaberle had shoulder surgery and would miss most of the regular season. The 2006 Hurricanes were probably the only Stanley Cup winner who didn't feature a perennial All-Star defender. Kaberle led the blueline with 44 points, so that was going to be a big void to fill that late in the offseason.

Canes give up on Johnson, trade him to L.A

The Hurricanes traded defensemen Jack Johnson and Oleg Tverdovsky to the Kings for forward Eric Belanger and defenseman Tim Gleason.

www.espn.com

A few weeks later, they traded Jack Johnson and Oleg Tverdovsky to LA for Tim Gleason and Eric Belanger. Carolina and Johnson had butted heads after he declined their overtures to turn pro after his freshman year. We were going into Year 2 of the salary cap, so a lot of us didn't understand that Tverdovsky was a cap dump rather than former All-Star who was still only 30.

Gleason would eventually be a solid D but at that point he was still a work in progress and definitely a different type of D than Kaberle.

2006 playoff D:
Hedican (22:40) - Ward (21:42)
Kaberle (18:25) - Commodore (19:27)
Wallin (16:39) - Wesley (16:10)
Tverdovsky (5:16)

2006-07 regular season D:
Hedican (19:58) - Commodore (19:54)
Gleason (18:53) - Tanabe (17:48)
Wallin (18:33) - Wesley (15:35)
Hutchinson (12:13) - Babchuk (17:26)

Looking at it now and there was more turnover than I would have guessed. Going from Kaberle/Ward to Gleason/Tanabe would have been a short term downgrade. Hedican and Wesley were getting up there in age. I wouldn't have been able to guess who was the D on PP1 and it looks like Andrew Hutchinson led with 6 PP assists despite only playing in half the games.

 

[Michael Farkas]

My recollection is that prime Tim Gleason was one of the better defensive d-men in the league...

 

[Brodeur]

My recollection is that prime Tim Gleason was one of the better defensive d-men in the league...

He turned into that, but 2006-07 Gleason didn't appear to be a finished product.

 

[MadLuke]

New Jersey.

Fair enough, maybe I was burned a bit by what a team build around the older version of Gionta-Gomez could do in the playoff.... and obviously Elias-Langenbrunner-Brodeur in net, Rafalski-Madden that better support then what I have seen from them.

But they had .920 goaltending that series, most of it from an unproven rookie.

And it can be half mythology / half truth, the feeling that Roloson win the cup was hard to shake.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Not sure if mentioned, but in addition to the other stuff, the 2006-07 Hurricanes were possibly the most injured team in the league, which likely makes all the difference for the 4/5/6 points to at least be one of the lower eastern conference playoff teams.

 

[Buffalowing1988]

-A bit of a south east inflated regular season record,

-Hot rookie/unproven goaltending (once they went with Ward),

-Did not face any particularly good team in the playoff.
Sabres could have been great but, like always for them injury did rack up that post season (Talinder and and other big piece D, I would imagine Connolly but I can be mixing up with 2007 injuries issues)

- Couple of important rental like Recchi-Weight that would leave.

Did not thought of them as a particularly likely repeater no, if they keep Gerber in (say he is just a bit less terrible) with Koivu, maybe MTL win that round...

Agreed on the inflated regular season record and the goaltending dynamic.

Also agree that the Sabres weren't nearly a full team when Carolina beat them in 7. Connolly was their best forward that post-season and he got knocked out the round prior against Ottawa. Tallinder was out, Jay McKee got a f***ing staph infection somehow from his equipment and had to miss that series, I believe Numminem was also out. We had career AHL guys getting 16-20 minutes a night on the blue line.

But excuses are like assholes and I give that Carolina team credit for just being DEEP. They acquired a handful of savvy vet rentals like you mentioned and Stillman and Ray Whitney had great postseason runs and that doesn't even account for Staal and Brindamour. They were loaded.

 

[WarriorofTime]

Very weird team in a lot of ways. They were mostly old as hell, as a franchise were in the Stanley Cup Finals four years earlier, but as a specific team and for the most part, weren't a group that had some history of going through a bunch of trials/tribulations, and had a few really talented high profile young guys mixed in (which is not possible draft wise had the old guys all been through it a bunch of years together... E. Staal 2nd overall pick 2003, Ladd 4th overall pick in 2004... didn't even have J. Johnson 3rd overall pick in 2005 but there was no 2004-05 season to "earn" that tank spot). Ward was young backup goalie, then came in, got hot and won Smythe. Then had a pretty good but not overly exceptional career.

Stillman (1973) - Brind'Amour (1970) - Williams (1981)
Cullen (1976) - Staal (1984) - Recchi (1968)
Ladd (1985) - Weight (1971) - Whitney (1972)
C. Adams (1977) - K. Adams (1974) - Larose (1982)

Hedican (1970) - Commodore (1979)
Kaberle (1973) - Ward (1973)
Wesley (1968) - Wallin (1975)

Ward (1984)
Gerber (1974)

Weight got knocked out in Game 5 of SCF. Cole came in and played Wing on Staal's line (Cole had previously been knocked out late in the regular season and missed entire postseason until that point) while Cullen moved into Weight's spot as 3C for the last couple games.

Their "how they were built" looks like this

2005 UFA - 2000 Trade - 2004 Trade
2005 UFA - 2003 1st Round Pick - 2006 TDL Trade
2004 1st Round Pick - 2006 TDL Trade - 2005 UFA
1996 9th Round Pick - 2002 Trade - 2003 Undrafted Free Agent

2002 Trade - 2005 Trade
2005 UFA - 2001 Trade
1995 Trade - 2000 4th Round Pick

2002 1st Round Pick
2004 Trade

Basically built seemingly overnight (5 out of the top 9 forwards in first year in organization, plus a rookie and a 21 year old, 2 out of top 4 defenseman in first year in organization, Rookie Goalie), came out of nowhere that season, had a great year, maybe a bit lucky with how postseason played itself out, but were a deserving team to win with the team they had and then never seen from again.

Not a pattern that is really replicable for any other team in future. New CBA/New Salary Cap/Lockout squad more or less.

 

[Sigurd]

I’d challenge that. Carolina’s 2nd round opponent was New Jersey. Entering that series, the Devils were riding a 15-game winning streak: 11 game win streak to close the regular season (an NHL record, if not mistaken) plus a 4-game sweep of the Rangers in Round 1. They were unquestionably a dangerous opponent for Carolina, entering the series—Brodeur, Elias, Gionta, et al. were on top of their game.

The Canes did an amazing job winning that series.

In addition to this, Buffalo was a heavyweight from the Eastern conference in 2006. They finished the regular season with 110 points; only 2 less than Carolina. Buffalo finished the regular season with the 4th most points in the NHL. Carolina and Buffalo also played to game 7 in the ECF in 2006.

So, yes. Carolina did in fact face particularly difficult opponents in the playoffs in 2006.

 

[MadLuke]

Buffalo was great, injured Buffalo that a bit different.

Very weird team in a lot of ways.

Wonder if by lock-out first year of the cap, if they had an will rarely see anymore amount of flexibility for a contender going on

 

[WarriorofTime]

Wonder if by lock-out first year of the cap, if they had an will rarely see anymore amount of flexibility for a contender going on

Yeah I think so. Anaheim was also built somewhat randomly but there was a but more to it with Scott Niedermayer's brother being there a big incentive to him, Pronger wanting out of Edmonton, Perry/Getzlaf being huge hits from the '03 Draft, I think a bit retention from their SCF team four years earlier etc.

 

[JackSlater]

Very weird team in a lot of ways. They were mostly old as hell, as a franchise were in the Stanley Cup Finals four years earlier, but as a specific team and for the most part, weren't a group that had some history of going through a bunch of trials/tribulations, and had a few really talented high profile young guys mixed in (which is not possible draft wise had the old guys all been through it a bunch of years together... E. Staal 2nd overall pick 2003, Ladd 4th overall pick in 2004... didn't even have J. Johnson 3rd overall pick in 2005 but there was no 2004-05 season to "earn" that tank spot). Ward was young backup goalie, then came in, got hot and won Smythe. Then had a pretty good but not overly exceptional career.

Stillman (1973) - Brind'Amour (1970) - Williams (1981)
Cullen (1976) - Staal (1984) - Recchi (1968)
Ladd (1985) - Weight (1971) - Whitney (1972)
C. Adams (1977) - K. Adams (1974) - Larose (1982)

Hedican (1970) - Commodore (1979)
Kaberle (1973) - Ward (1973)
Wesley (1968) - Wallin (1975)

Ward (1984)
Gerber (1974)

Weight got knocked out in Game 5 of SCF. Cole came in and played Wing on Staal's line (Cole had previously been knocked out late in the regular season and missed entire postseason until that point) while Cullen moved into Weight's spot as 3C for the last couple games.

Their "how they were built" looks like this

2005 UFA - 2000 Trade - 2004 Trade
2005 UFA - 2003 1st Round Pick - 2006 TDL Trade
2004 1st Round Pick - 2006 TDL Trade - 2005 UFA
1996 9th Round Pick - 2002 Trade - 2003 Undrafted Free Agent

2002 Trade - 2005 Trade
2005 UFA - 2001 Trade
1995 Trade - 2000 4th Round Pick

2002 1st Round Pick
2004 Trade

Basically built seemingly overnight (5 out of the top 9 forwards in first year in organization, plus a rookie and a 21 year old, 2 out of top 4 defenseman in first year in organization, Rookie Goalie), came out of nowhere that season, had a great year, maybe a bit lucky with how postseason played itself out, but were a deserving team to win with the team they had and then never seen from again.

Not a pattern that is really replicable for any other team in future. New CBA/New Salary Cap/Lockout squad more or less.

I agree that it is a weird team in terms of how it came together. If Washington had won this year it would have been kind of similar.

 

[Sigurd]

Buffalo was great, injured Buffalo that a bit different.

It still took Carolina 7 games to beat them. I'm not sure why you keep downplaying how good Buffalo was in 2005-2006.

Also, off the top of my head, Erik Cole with Carolina was still injured from his neck injury he sustained in the regular season from Brooks Orpik. Cole was a very good player still at that time for Carolina. So, it's not like Carolina didn't have any notable injuries themselves.

Wonder if by lock-out first year of the cap, if they had an will rarely see anymore amount of flexibility for a contender going on

 

[HisIceness]

As a fan, I didn't think they'd repeat but I also thought they'd at least properly defend the Cup by making the playoffs. Was extremely disappointed they didn't. Looking back on it, I wish they'd have kept Gerber around, he won 37 of the 52 wins in 2005-06. John Graham was just not a good backup although he had a cool helmet. Also not having Ray Whitney and Matt Cullen didn't help.

I've never understood the "didn't play great teams" argument. NJ was no slouch, Buffalo was almost a copy of the Hurricanes, and Edmonton knocked off PT winner Detroit in round 1. The "take advantage of injuries" narrative is also weak. Every team has injuries playoff time. If we're going that route, Carolina didn't have Erik Cole from early March until game 6 in Edmonton, Cole was at one point in the year leading the team in points. Doug Weight had a shoulder injury during the Finals. Aaron Ward IIRC played through a concussion.

 

[Ishdul]

I don't think they were going to repeat but them not making the playoffs was a pretty big surprise. They were coming off a great regular season and Eric Staal looked like a dominant centreman and Cam Ward a star goalie for the foreseeable future. Their offseason losses didn't seem that big at the time and they had won their division by 20 points the year before. The perception was that they would still be a top end team.

 

[Nerowoy nora tolad]

I've never understood the "didn't play great teams" argument. NJ was no slouch, Buffalo was almost a copy of the Hurricanes, and Edmonton knocked off PT winner Detroit in round 1. The "take advantage of injuries" narrative is also weak. Every team has injuries playoff time. If we're going that route, Carolina didn't have Erik Cole from early March until game 6 in Edmonton, Cole was at one point in the year leading the team in points. Doug Weight had a shoulder injury during the Finals. Aaron Ward IIRC played through a concussion.

The Erik Cole comparison is apples to oranges in terms of impact. Cole was a 60 point LW power forward at best, missing from a team that already had Brindamour, Whitney, and Ladd on left wing. The sabres were injured to the point of playing AHL regulars on defence for a conference finals game 7, and the Oilers lost their starting goaltender who was considered a strong candidate for the Smythe before he was injured.

If the 06 hurricanes aren't the clearcut answer to "Cup Champ with the greatest proportion of why they won being injured opponents" please tell me who is?

 

[MadLuke]

It still took Carolina 7 games to beat them. I'm not sure why you keep downplaying how good Buffalo was in 2005-2006.

There is a gap between good and particularly good, they faced good teams, Devils were a good team, the 2006 and the 2007 Sabres could have been particularly good when healthy, but they were not, making them just a regular good playoff teams. (and we can enter circular reasoning here a bit, Canes were great they did beat the Sabres, why the Sabres were good?, it took 7 games for Carolina to win the series)

This is not the general feeling that a Colorado would re-win it with that core many times after they beat the particularly good Red Wings in 1996.

Since 1970, the back to back champ

- 1975 Parent/Clarke/Barber/Leach flyers
- 77-78-79 4 cups in a row maybe best team of all time Habs Dynasties
- 81-82-83 Dynasties Islanders
- 1985 Gretzky Oilers
- 1988 Gretzky Oilers
- 1992 Mario pens
- 1998 Red Wings
- 2017 Crosby-Malkin Pens
- 2021 Kucherov-Point-Hedman-Vasileskiy Tampa Bays

If you are not the 2002 Red Wings, you pretty much always easily take the league against any single team even the previous cup winner.

If we make the question more precise: did you think the Canes had more than 25% chance to be in that rare group because they were both a way better than average Stanley cups winners and particularly well-placed age/keeping free agents wise to be next summer in talk to be put in next hockey Dynasties list that will try to go for 3 in a row, saying no to that should not be seen as putting a champ down.

With Whitney-Weight-Reechi and a Cam Ward playing like he was playing they were loaded enough to get around not having a big name number 1 D on a legit cup winner, which is already a lot.

The second half 90s Red Wings, 80s Oilers or 10s BlackHawks, 20s Tampa they were not.

How much would you have bet that summer that a team defense group led by Bret Hedican and a rookie goaltender will repeat ?

It is just really hard to be in that this team will go repeat it category.
The panthers were a great champ, kept their core, this summer they were a +900 betting line to repeat, i.e. a ~10% chance of winning..... it is really hard to win 4 round of hockey, it is extremely hard and rare to do it 2 years in a row.

The Ducks did not felt like a team that would likely repeat either... but an argument could be made they had a higher chance to do it. The Red Wings were the kind of team that felt likely to repeat in comparison.