OT: Hunting/Fishing

[Cypruss]

I saw an article somewhere yesterday saying that residents and cottage owners in the Northern Whiteshell aren't getting any status updates from the province whatsoever about being able to return (despite Falcon being completely open a few kms away)

These sorts of things like communicating and providing services to the population have taken a back seat to real priorities like virtue signalling land acknowledgements and tampon machines in men’s bathrooms.

 

[Buffdog]

These sorts of things like communicating and providing services to the population have taken a back seat to real priorities like virtue signalling land acknowledgements and tampon machines in men’s bathrooms.

I just look at it more like the government lacks efficiency and modernity

 

[John Agar]

The way natural resources are managed in the states makes our system look terrible

Down there, all revenue from outdoor related licenses, etc stays within the department and funds enforcement and biology (in most states). There's also something called the Pittman-Robertson act that puts an 11% tax on fishing, hunting and outdoor related goods that goes directly to states who manage their wildlife properly. That's how they manage their populations so well (I'd be more than willing to pay that as a consumer if it meant better fishing and hunting opportunities)

Here, any revenue goes into the general fund and pays for roads and Healthcare and the DNR had to beg for funds and officers

My Brother and I went down to Iowa to the Driftless region on the Northeast side of Iowa; centered on Decorah last week.

They have an amazing natural resource in Spring Creeks that well up out of the limestone formations that rise above the valleys; their State government has obviously identified this for 20 plus years. Trout stocking for these rivers/creeks starting the 1st week in May through the whole summer is weekly into most of the rivers. The DNR biologists & Officers are accessible at the hatchery, involved in ongoing research towards establishing natural populations of trout in these streams and this has been going on for the last 20 years.

The State is buying up land in the valleys when possible and forming partnerships with farmers to service and help protect the land that agree to provide access, mostly funded in the way you @Buffdog said. The areas made available in Parks/Wilderness preserves are well maintained, marked, advertised and on purpose made extremely accessible (major bushwhacking is not necessary).

Adjacent numerous camping sites are well maintained and the free market has the pay for full service well supported.

Towns such as Decorah and Waukon right in the middle of this area are Agricultural based, but with amazing services of all types for sportsman to indulge in year round, be it Sporting goods, high quality restaurants and excellent lodging choices - both world class towns in small town America.

Further my brother and I engaged everyday people as we make a point of using services in the small towns as we went Roadhouses, service stations, parks, the bars (surprise). We were treated extremely well by Americans and they showed lots of interest in us. Our media is making stuff up and our so called leaders are playing games - we were treated like kings. So much for the narrative.

A special shout out goes to Rick down in the Waterloo Creek valley for his excellent, quick and hospitable nature, ensuring my brother's Mercedes Van's alternator was repaired - even loaned us a spare car at no charge so we could continue fishing while he waited for the part.
Salt of the Earth people like Rick made our trip extra amazing.

Oh and we have never seen so many trout in our lives; truly amazing.

So @Buffdog... you understated the reality in many U.S. jurisdictions. Canada is 3rd world.

 

[sipowicz]

Sad days with the fires and closed off areas. I am supposed to be at Black lake from Thursday - Sunday this coming weekend - and obviously cancelled. Apparently, Black Lake campground is GONE.

The positive, since the two site reservations were in my name, I received two different direct calls from DNR (an actual human being) updating the concerns, and then cancelling the reservation - and keeping me in the loop.

What I am more concerned about - taking my son for a 4 day trip to Q Lake lodge at the end of June. Camping, boat rental and a guide as well - a pretty big deposit expense. Haven't hear boo from them at all about the status, etc. The northern Nopiming fire is pretty close to Bisset now - so assuming won't be able to get that trip in either. Whether I see a penny back from my deposit feels pretty questionable. Just a simple touching base email to people who have reserved and deposited would go a long way.....maybe will come at some point.

Feel terrible for all the people who lost their places. Feel terrible for the people who look forward to a few camping and fishing trips a year, to have it all go up in (literal) smoke.

Beautiful part of the province, canoed, hiked and fished many of the lakes in Nopiming, its too bad forest management is so piss poor in this province and elsewhere in Canada. What did they think would happen in Jasper with hundreds of thousands of dried out dead trees after the pine bark beetle when through, totally inevitable!

Years ago they did controlled burns, had fire breaks etc. but then they started listening to the left wing enviormental fringe who were book smart but plain dumb and decided nature should just take care of itself, fires be damned!

 

[Mud Turtle]

Beautiful part of the province, canoed, hiked and fished many of the lakes in Nopiming, its too bad forest management is so piss poor in this province and elsewhere in Canada. What did they think would happen in Jasper with hundreds of thousands of dried out dead trees after the pine bark beetle when through, totally inevitable!

Years ago they did controlled burns, had fire breaks etc. but then they started listening to the left wing enviormental fringe who were book smart but plain dumb and decided nature should just take care of itself, fires be damned!

It’s strange, because they love to intervene in almost every other aspect of peoples lives. Except forestry apparently.

 

[Buffdog]

Beautiful part of the province, canoed, hiked and fished many of the lakes in Nopiming, its too bad forest management is so piss poor in this province and elsewhere in Canada. What did they think would happen in Jasper with hundreds of thousands of dried out dead trees after the pine bark beetle when through, totally inevitable!

Years ago they did controlled burns, had fire breaks etc. but then they started listening to the left wing enviormental fringe who were book smart but plain dumb and decided nature should just take care of itself, fires be damned!

I've hunted in Idaho and Montana and they go in in the winter and cut down the dead standing trees and haul out as much dead fall as they can... and then they leave it on the fire roads for people to pick up and use for firewood. It won't stop fires, but it limits the fuel they have to burn

The first time I drove into Banff after those trips, I couldn't believe how much dead standing timber they just leave there. I was thinking that the whole forest is a giant tinderbox and it's one lightening strike away from disaster

 

[kanadalainen]

as we make a point of using services in the small towns as we went Roadhouses, service stations, parks, the bars.

Hang on, you went to a bar? LIke, with drinks and stuff?

(Great story by the way )

 

[buggs]

Beautiful part of the province, canoed, hiked and fished many of the lakes in Nopiming, its too bad forest management is so piss poor in this province and elsewhere in Canada. What did they think would happen in Jasper with hundreds of thousands of dried out dead trees after the pine bark beetle when through, totally inevitable!

Years ago they did controlled burns, had fire breaks etc. but then they started listening to the left wing enviormental fringe who were book smart but plain dumb and decided nature should just take care of itself, fires be damned!

I did some of my graduate work in Nopiming (mostly Sandilands). Did lots of insect collecting in Agassiz as well.

During grad school we used to have debates about lightning strikes and the correct course of action. I fear those on the side of "put it out as quickly as possible to save the trees" are the ones that ended up working provincially and federally with forestry.

I was fortunate to have an uncle with a cabin on the south side of Falcon lake when I was growing up, so got to go out there every year a couple of times to fish and waterski. It was gorgeous. But like much of the Whiteshell and further north, the whole region has had the trees preserved for the cottage owners. I don't disagree with them about the beauty of the trees and how depressing it would be without them, but those same trees that were there when I was a kid are still standing all over the region. The normal life span for the tree species we have in eastern Manitoba isn't 60+ years in most cases - these are not old growth forest types of trees. At all.

I have friends with cabins in the affected areas now (Kenora, Lac du Bonnet, Nopiming) and I absolutely feel for them. But these fires have been overdue (and necessary for healthy regeneration) for a very long time. I don't want anyone's property burned or certainly don't want anyone hurt but the government hasn't been doing anything for a very long time. Can't imagine those governing for likes on social media are going to do much of anything now either sadly.

Geez, the U.S. isn't even very good at forest management but they're a hell of a lot better than we are.

 

[Buffdog]

I did some of my graduate work in Nopiming (mostly Sandilands). Did lots of insect collecting in Agassiz as well.

During grad school we used to have debates about lightning strikes and the correct course of action. I fear those on the side of "put it out as quickly as possible to save the trees" are the ones that ended up working provincially and federally with forestry.

I was fortunate to have an uncle with a cabin on the south side of Falcon lake when I was growing up, so got to go out there every year a couple of times to fish and waterski. It was gorgeous. But like much of the Whiteshell and further north, the whole region has had the trees preserved for the cottage owners. I don't disagree with them about the beauty of the trees and how depressing it would be without them, but those same trees that were there when I was a kid are still standing all over the region. The normal life span for the tree species we have in eastern Manitoba isn't 60+ years in most cases - these are not old growth forest types of trees. At all.

I have friends with cabins in the affected areas now (Kenora, Lac du Bonnet, Nopiming) and I absolutely feel for them. But these fires have been overdue (and necessary for healthy regeneration) for a very long time. I don't want anyone's property burned or certainly don't want anyone hurt but the government hasn't been doing anything for a very long time. Can't imagine those governing for likes on social media are going to do much of anything now either sadly.

Geez, the U.S. isn't even very good at forest management but they're a hell of a lot better than we are.

The #1 goal of wildfire management in the states is preservation of structures

If anyone is interested, Tim Sheehy (newly elected senator from Montana) was recently on the Meateater podcast with Steve Rinella... he has a company that specializes in wildfire suppression and has flown water bombers in the past. It's very relevant to this convo and worth listening to

 

[Hank Chinaski]

The #1 goal of wildfire management in the states is preservation of structures

If anyone is interested, Tim Sheehy (newly elected senator from Montana) was recently on the Meateater podcast with Steve Rinella... he has a company that specializes in wildfire suppression and has flown water bombers in the past. It's very relevant to this convo and worth listening to

Didn’t really know where to put this, but please pray or send whatever positive energy you can into the universe for the folks in Flin Flon, Creighton & area. Whole area put on mandatory evacuation notice this afternoon due to uncontrolled wildfires.

I’m in The Pas, and right now the town looks like a scene from one of those “end of days” flicks. Entire population in the Flin Flon area - probably around 10K - had to evacuate south through Hwy 10. Hwy 106 to the west through Sask is closed because of fire.

Really bad situation, and unfortunately zero rain in the long term forecast.

 

[Gm0ney]

I did some of my graduate work in Nopiming (mostly Sandilands). Did lots of insect collecting in Agassiz as well.

During grad school we used to have debates about lightning strikes and the correct course of action. I fear those on the side of "put it out as quickly as possible to save the trees" are the ones that ended up working provincially and federally with forestry.

I was fortunate to have an uncle with a cabin on the south side of Falcon lake when I was growing up, so got to go out there every year a couple of times to fish and waterski. It was gorgeous. But like much of the Whiteshell and further north, the whole region has had the trees preserved for the cottage owners. I don't disagree with them about the beauty of the trees and how depressing it would be without them, but those same trees that were there when I was a kid are still standing all over the region. The normal life span for the tree species we have in eastern Manitoba isn't 60+ years in most cases - these are not old growth forest types of trees. At all.

I have friends with cabins in the affected areas now (Kenora, Lac du Bonnet, Nopiming) and I absolutely feel for them. But these fires have been overdue (and necessary for healthy regeneration) for a very long time. I don't want anyone's property burned or certainly don't want anyone hurt but the government hasn't been doing anything for a very long time. Can't imagine those governing for likes on social media are going to do much of anything now either sadly.

Geez, the U.S. isn't even very good at forest management but they're a hell of a lot better than we are.

We could do more management in the populated areas of provincial and national parks, but it's a lot of forest to cover and there's no road infrastructure for a lot of it. It's a tall order...

 

[10Ducky10]

The last picture was from the east side of the lake this is three days later from the west side of the lake.

 

[buggs]

We could do more management in the populated areas of provincial and national parks, but it's a lot of forest to cover and there's no road infrastructure for a lot of it. It's a tall order...

No disagreement from me. Many of the regions that are burning are unmanageable. I'd contend for many of the areas that do burn, it's necessary from a regeneration standpoint and this has happened in numerous locations in the province recently. There are large swaths of forest that have burned in Sandilands provincial forest for example. The entire forest is covered by grid roads but in that situation given the relative lack of population it's arguably a better process to let things occur as nature intends. Those fires are managed to an extent but the area isn't. It is, to me, a reasonable process.

But it's those populated areas that they aren't doing anything in that are the problem. There should be management plans for any highly populated areas with accessibility and cottagers/home owners should be regularly informed of obligations and risk associated with no management of those areas. I'm not even contending that the government should be wholly responsible for all of the tree management/removal. I'd suggest that, at least in part, should be put upon homeowners/land owners/cottage owners/etc. Not everyone is going to know when their trees are at risk, but a program similar in some respects to the DED program in the city would work. Obviously the land area is far too large to have crews looking at everything, but the province could have a hotline of sorts whereby an owner could say "hey, I've got some concerns in my area, can you send someone around to take a look?" Then a crew could go out and assess the specific are and spend some further effort locally while they're out there.

It's impossible to manage it all but it's not impossible to do something.

From the forestry people I know the Jasper disaster was largely avoidable. There was a lot of information passed on to the federal government (stewards of the land in the park, the province didn't have the authority) following the pine beetle infestations that this was a disaster waiting to happen. Certainly you couldn't manage the entire forest or even the entire park. But you could have managed a considerable area around the town of Jasper and created substantive fire breaks at the limit of what you could manage. Nothing was done. There were many options that could have been taken, but they chose "none of the above".

Hoping we get some rainfall soon in all the affected areas.