Post-Game Talk: Huge comeback win! Jets 4-3

[Ducky10]

Maybe not lazy but careless and selfish? Whether they vocalize it or not I'd bet they do.

Nah, more likely they appreciate how good he is and that he's on their team. Can't know for sure but it seems more likely.

 

[Ducky10]

Except when Wheeler talks about players taking unnecessary risks that cost the team in the context of Buff having just done that. Then we sort of put two and two together...

You're right that we don't really know the dynamics, and I would bet that Buff is going to be a force for the Jets in the playoffs. However, it got pretty frustrating to watch him play like it was a shinny game last season, and a bit at times this season (early on). He's improved. My pure guess is that he's settled down a bit after getting a couple of goals and stringing together some points.

People in glass houses..something, something.

 

[Whileee]

Maybe not lazy but careless and selfish? Whether they vocalize it or not I'd bet they do.

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/byfuglien.1563389/page-7#post-77455129

Wheeler in his post game interview that I heard on 1290 said (paraphrase) we had the game plan drawn up on the chalk board in the dressing room then we proceeded to go out and ignore it? He added we preached puck possession and control and then we went out and turned the puck over in our own slot (the red zone).

 

[Jet]

Nah, more likely they appreciate how good he is and that he's on their team. Can't know for sure but it seems more likely.

So you think it's all just fluffy happy thoughts?

I've been on some pretty cohesive teams before and you get frustrated with your teammates shortcomings, it's natural. When you have a group of elite athletes so driven to win they are going to get pissed when a teammate is doing things that hurt the team.

 

[Whileee]

People in glass houses..something, something.

I don't disagree. Wheeler isn't perfect either in my view.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

Except when Wheeler talks about players taking unnecessary risks that cost the team in the context of Buff having just done that. Then we sort of put two and two together...

You're right that we don't really know the dynamics, and I would bet that Buff is going to be a force for the Jets in the playoffs. However, it got pretty frustrating to watch him play like it was a shinny game last season, and a bit at times this season (early on). He's improved. My pure guess is that he's settled down a bit after getting a couple of goals and stringing together some points.

Yes, I heard Wheeler say that. I love Wheeler and I think he's a great captain but I never heard him call himself out when his casual giveaway on the PP vs Vegas cost us a SH goal and maybe the game? I'm also not a big fan of his feigned "pro athlete who gets annoyed with reporters innocent questions even when we are on a winning streak" schtick. But even with all of that, I would never really associate a mistake of his to my impression that he seems to take himself too seriously.

As for Buff, I don't think its a coincidence that his significantly improved play comes on the back of .920 goaltending. The last time he played in front of decent goaltending, he was #BuffNorris. When every mistake ends up in the back of your net for 4/6 years, the fans get a little restless. And start calling you lazy

 

[Ducky10]

So you think it's all just fluffy happy thoughts?

I've been on some pretty cohesive teams before and you get frustrated with your teammates shortcomings, it's natural. When you have a group of elite athletes so driven to win they are going to get pissed when a teammate is doing things that hurt the team.

I've played on tight knit, winning teams as well. People have different mindsets, but teammates shortcomings are far less an issue when their positives far outweigh them. I'm a look in the mirror guy first, I don't get frustrated at others much.

 

[Ducky10]

I don't disagree. Wheeler isn't perfect either in my view.

He should remind himself of that then, before he calls out others.

 

[10Ducky10]

Somehow I doubt Buff's actual teammates see him as lazy and casual. Just my opinion.

I think they see him and Wheeler as leaders of the team.
Buff is a different guy on and off the ice. He doesn't read or watch hockey media of any type. He doesn't like interviews or stuff like that.
I like what Chevy said about wanting to stay here because the kids gave him energy and he wanted to be here.
Maurice needs to tell him to play more physical. He plays his best when he is wallpapering opponents and they have to be beware of him when he is on the ice. He is an excellent passer and reads the game better than any other player on the team. If he plays at his best, he can dominate a series. I was super passed off at him after the Ducks' series but then it came out he wasn't 100%.

 

[Whileee]

Yes, I heard Wheeler say that. I love Wheeler and I think he's a great captain but I never heard him call himself out when his casual giveaway on the PP vs Vegas cost us a SH goal and maybe the game? I'm also not a big fan of his feigned "pro athlete who gets annoyed with reporters innocent questions even when we are on a winning streak" schtick. But even with all of that, I would never really associate a mistake of his to my impression that he seems to take himself too seriously.

As for Buff, I don't think its a coincidence that his significantly improved play comes on the back of .920 goaltending. The last time he played in front of decent goaltending, he was #BuffNorris. When every mistake ends up in the back of your net for 4/6 years, the fans get a little restless. And start calling you lazy

I think goaltending has something to do with it, but I also think Buff had a role in Hellebuyck's .908.

 

[scelaton]

Some of it is that Myers is just not that good. He's not bad, and he's amazing to have as the 3rd guy after Trouba and Buff... but without those two in front his limitedness gets exposed.

That is the most positive description I have seen you make of Myers.

As it happens, I agree with it and have always characterized him, at his prime as a solid #3. I suspect he is still not physically at 100%, but his offensive acumen vs his defensive lapses are what remind me of Buff (qualitatively). Net-net, Myers has been a huge asset on D this year, in the absence of Trouba and while Buff was rounding into form. The key, as with Buff, is not to judge him by his mistakes in isolation from his offensive contributions.

While we are talking about the two, Buff is held to a higher standard because he is paid as a #1D and is by far the highest AAV on the team. It comes with the territory.

 

[Jet]

I've played on tight knit, winning teams as well. People have different mindsets, but teammates shortcomings are far less an issue when their positives far outweigh them. I'm a look in the mirror guy first, I don't get frustrated at others much.

Again, I don't necessarily think they would verbalize it, but internally? If you see a guy who makes Ill timed pinches that end up costing you a game when you are fighting for a playoff spot, you'd be pissed.

To be clear, I am not really speaking of this year's Buff, who IMHO has been far less risk reward, which bodes well for us in the playoffs.

 

[Blue Shakehead]

I think goaltending has something to do with it, but I also think Buff had a role in Hellebuyck's .908.

That's another can of worms and I don't agree. Hellebuyck was nowhere near the goalie last year he is this year. He was the least consistent player on the team. One start would be .950 and the next start was .800. Hutch was even worse.

Buff was less consistent because he was playing 30 minutes - sometimes with gems like Julien Melchiori - and without the help of Trouba or Myers and we were chasing games about 65% of the year on account of aforementioned terrible goaltending. Of course Ben Chiarot doesn't look any worse when we are chasing the games - he's icing the puck 100% of the time. Buff, on the other hand, is trying to get us back in it - which rarely works, but its the only option.

 

[BoneDocUK]

When you've watched the recent games, do you think that Petan has looked to be as good or effective as Roslovic?

I agree with Ducky10 that Roslo has looked good (and played well) without necessarily being super-productive. Case in point is the Roslo point a few games back, a nice pass across into the crease converted (I think) by Connor. The play begins with a great defensive play by Petan, who first digs it out of the corner and makes the pass, then comes back in front of the net to pick up the puck and rushes it up the ice before feeding Roslo. He then draws his man off and the scoring play happens. On the board, Roslovic gets credit for the play -- as he should -- but the play doesn't happen without Petan's anticipation and strong checking in the D-zone, great speed and vision to get the puck up ice, etc etc.

I think Roslovic has been excellent, dynamic and aggressive and quick on the forecheck. My point is only that Petan is now playing the game he's long been (rightly) criticized for not playing. He may not be racking up the points yet but he's been good defensively and played with speed and aggression. We know he's a great playmaker, passer, etc. I think this is a healthy development, and I think he's pretty clearly passed Dano on this roster. If he can develop into a player who is a net positive for the lines he play on, while being the PP threat we know he can be, maybe he sticks.

 

[Gm0ney]

I understand the case you are trying to make, but I disagree with it. To think somehow that one player is being held to a different standard is not logical. You know the org wants all of their prospects to succeed, whether it's for our use or to parlay into another player, prospect, or pick.

I am going to venture a guess that guys like Roslovic and Connor have impressed the organization more in the following areas:

• Play in the AHL
• Play in the NHL
• Adaptability of play style and role, ability to play with a wide range of other player skills and types
• Attitude
• Work ethic
• Practice
• Professionalism.

Unfortunately we are not intimately aware of these things. Simplistically speaking, I have noticed with my imperfect eye Roslo and Connor doing more with whatever they've been given than Petan and Dano.

Yeah who knows all the reasoning behind it, but I just don't think Petan's been given the same opportunities as others over the course of his NHL career here. He certainly wasn't bad on Tuesday though - and he clearly wasn't given the same opportunity in that particular game as Roslovic was. Not saying he should've been either - just that to say he was meh is ignoring his situation.

 

[BoneDocUK]

He should remind himself of that then, before he calls out others.

I agree. A few times recently I've actually tried to block out my view of Wheeler on the PP. Great player, great line driver, plenty of WTF moments of his own.

 

[BoneDocUK]

I understand the case you are trying to make, but I disagree with it. To think somehow that one player is being held to a different standard is not logical. You know the org wants all of their prospects to succeed, whether it's for our use or to parlay into another player, prospect, or pick.

I am going to venture a guess that guys like Roslovic and Connor have impressed the organization more in the following areas:

• Play in the AHL
• Play in the NHL
• Adaptability of play style and role, ability to play with a wide range of other player skills and types
• ** Being the sort of player that PoMo understands
• Attitude
• Work ethic
• Practice
• Professionalism.

Unfortunately we are not intimately aware of these things. Simplistically speaking, I have noticed with my imperfect eye Roslo and Connor doing more with whatever they've been given than Petan and Dano.

My sense, from watching the games and practices, and talking recently to a guy who works for the Moose, is that the bolded (I added one) represent the main advantages of Roslo and Connor over Petan. I suspect numbers 4-7 may apply to Dano.

 

[pucka lucka]

My sense, from watching the games and practices, and talking recently to a guy who works for the Moose, is that the bolded (I added one) represent the main advantages of Roslo and Connor over Petan. I suspect numbers 4-7 may apply to Dano.

** Being the sort of player that PoMo understands

That says it all. Petan doesn't play in straight lines. Neither does Laine. PoMo has no freakin' idea how to use guys like that properly. PoMo is a method coach.

 

[ocdaddy]

Wheeler turned the puck over twice in OT and maybe he was tired again.

I know they won the game but maybe let the young bucks giv'r a go next time.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/byfuglien.1563389/page-7#post-77455129

I took that as referring to Laine more than anyone else - since he does more than anyone else.

 

[KingBogo]

I very much like the thought process behind this Whileee... it is totally consistent with us securing a C that permits us to run with what most call a 1-2-3a-3b structure. Most would have to agree with the notion that such structure would be the best way to utilize the type of talent accumulated. The question as always of course is whether Maurice himself is aligned with this type of thinking, or not. Recent media reports(value them as you will) suggesting that Maurice has asked Chevy to pick up a forward with more grit, are not very encouraging. This strongly suggests Maurice has again defaulted to what he is most comfortable with - 2 top lines, a checking line, and a prototypical low minute energy line. Oh well... the passage of trade deadline will help clarify management`s thinking.

More often than not, I'm hearing Chevy is looking for a top 6 forward. Not sure we need one, but that would be the opposite direction you are implying.

 

[Aavco Cup]

Some of it is that Myers is just not that good. He's not bad, and he's amazing to have as the 3rd guy after Trouba and Buff... but without those two in front his limitedness gets exposed.

I agree completely about Myers. My comment was about Buff

 

[GNP]

You can see the talent oozing out of Petan. He has that extra something and is starting to put it all together into a finished package that is effective. He’s not nearly all the way there yet but you can see that he’s purposefully changed his game and it’s working.
Message received, maybe just in time.

________________________________________________________

I do agree with the Turtle man here, as I've really noticed Petan has stepped up his play a lot, and is playing with some fire and intensity. I hope the Jets don't give him away in a weak trade, before giving him a real decent chance to play.

I have "zero doubt" in Petan's talent, but it's been his lack of confidence that has held him back. I think his stint with the Moose and playing with bigger men, has really made him a lot more confident in playing with the "big club" now.

I'm not saying for sure he'll be a keeper, but I'd like him to get a fair chance, playing with some skilled guys like Ehlers, or Roslo--and "see what he can do"-- I think he just may surprise a lot of us. Wouldn't surprise me-- he has a "proven record". This is not a physical thing with Petan-- but it's all "confidence" and it's coming back.

Don't give this guy away for "nothing"-- we've spent a lot of waiting time and patience on him.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

I was at this game. It was wonderful. My favorite part was watching a shmuck in an ovi jersey standing up and doing the were the best to all the Jets fans around him after buff took the immaculate slash to save the game.

Also watching JoMo run a savage amount of interference on the chef game tying goal was a thing of beauty.

 

[Dayofthedogs]

Also buff is awesome and I love the fact the biggest bone of contention around here is trying to figure out what's wrong with our 40+ point 19 year old