How would we blow it all up?

[jkutswings]

The Ducks series was a legit win, but the Hawks series was only competitive until Chicago woke up and started playing. Detroit was never getting anywhere near a Cup that year. Again.

The real insult to Datsyuk and Zetterberg was in neither giving them enough supporting talent to contend during the twilight of their careers, nor being able to deal them to a team that could.

But whether I'm right or wrong about the past, the Wings are definitely in need of a rebuild now. Let's hope they see the light.

 

[Frk It]

Oh man I disagree. They weren't favorites but the run in 12-13 was a reflection of the caliber of team we had at that point.

The team was solid that year. Franzen, Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Howard, Kronwall were all very good players and healthy at that point. Nyquist, Cleary Filppula, Brunner, and Smith provided useful depth. Maybe you can say that was the beginning of the end and if you wanted to take a different route, that's fair, but to call it a fluke is an insult to Datysuk et al.

Quincey certainly helped shore up the blue line but it was a shortsighted trade.

The blue line that year (12-13) was still atrocious. Dekeyser only played in 13 games that year, including 2 playoff games.. The defense was Kronwall, Kindl, Smith, Ericsson, White, Lashoff, Colaicovo. But Datsyuk and Z were still ppg guys that point, and their two way game helped mask that.

 

[SirloinUB]

how do you explain the predictions that dont workout on draft picks?

if you pick and choose stats or examples that back up your claim but ignore those that refute it, you look simple

holland deserves as much criticsm as he does praise for draft picks that dont work out or moves on the draft floor that dont work out as he does for those that do

Its not about picking and choosing, its about realistic expectations.

If the expectation is perfection, then yes, the draft misses should count as much as the hits. But the reality is every GM and every scout will get some of these wrong and we have to accept that to a certain extent.

Now ill let you draw the line of what is acceptable number of hits for yourself, but 1 miss shouldn't weigh as heavily as 1 hit when we understand that they will all have their misses.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Its not about picking and choosing, its about realistic expectations.

If the expectation is perfection, then yes, the draft misses should count as much as the hits. But the reality is every GM and every scout will get some of these wrong and we have to accept that to a certain extent.

Now ill let you draw the line of what is acceptable number of hits for yourself, but 1 miss shouldn't weigh as heavily as 1 hit when we understand that they will all have their misses.

i dont expect perfection but i will say 1 "hit" is worth 3 "misses" thats my ratio so you should "hit" on 2 players per draft who become productive NHlers(i will let others defne that term, ie minimum # of games, seasons, points, etc)

 

[obey86]

Remember when Chychrun was the GOAT? Healthy scratch tonight for the worst team in the NHL. Not saying it means he won't be good in the future, dude's only 18, but people were saying Ken Holland passed on an obvious stud and Chychrun would be on the top pair here right now because he put up a few points early.

The point is, let's wait to see what actually happens....either way. It's gonna take a few years.

 

[jkutswings]

True, but I would guess that, on this roster, Chychrun would be having a similar impact to Sproul. Young kid, lots to improve, but has enough upside that you'd rather see him learning on the job than continue to watch the Keystone Cops veterans out there.

 

[Claypool]

True, but I would guess that, on this roster, Chychrun would be having a similar impact to Sproul. Young kid, lots to improve, but has enough upside that you'd rather see him learning on the job than continue to watch the Keystone Cops veterans out there.

Chychrun wouldn't even be in the NHL if Detroit drafted him. He'd be in Sarnia. That's probably where he belongs right now anyway.

 

[Frk It]

Remember when Chychrun was the GOAT? Healthy scratch tonight for the worst team in the NHL. Not saying it means he won't be good in the future, dude's only 18, but people were saying Ken Holland passed on an obvious stud and Chychrun would be on the top pair here right now because he put up a few points early.

The point is, let's wait to see what actually happens....either way. It's gonna take a few years.

No one said he was a goat and no one said he'd be on our top pairing.

 

[Dotter]

No one said he was a goat and no one said he'd be on our top pairing.

Yeah he probably exaggerated. With that said, I never understood the Chychrun hype. I really like Cholo's upside better and I think he'll be a better offensive guy that can smoothly move the puck. I feel like Chychrun will develop into the type of guy that often shows up on the UFA frenzy. I feel like Cholo will be something more special... or, perhaps, could just fizzle out.

I think Wings scouts wanted something that can be very special, not the guy that shows up every year as an UFA.

 

[ap3x]

10 types of contracts to avoid, Ken.

 

[BinCookin]

10 types of contracts to avoid, Ken.

Zetterberg and Abby's deal mentioned

 

[splot]

Eh, I don't really get why people are panicking over Zetterbergs contract. The guy literally broke his back, do you really think it's going to be a problem to put him on LTIR in a year or two? Sure, its horrible for the team that he's no longer one of the best players in the league, but I don't see how that one is going to hurt us long term.

 

[ap3x]

Z's contract may be too long. But personally, I worry more about Abby's, Helm's & Big E's contracts. Nielsen's if he isn't getting back towards previous numbers that he put up.

 

[Dotter]

10 types of contracts to avoid, Ken.

It's a video about trashing SJS for the Brent Burns overpayment. They hate that contract. It seems like GMs don't care about salary cap anymore because of the many loopholes to get out of bad contracts.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

It's a video about trashing SJS for the Brent Burns overpayment. They hate that contract. It seems like GMs don't care about salary cap anymore because of the many loopholes to get out of bad contracts.

so long as its not a performance based league then I think GMs should have ways out of bad contracts

if players arent punished for failing to meet expectations then GMs and teams shouldnt be either

 

[Mijatovic]

I dont know what other teams are looking like. But realistically, we have 5 contracts that you could call bad. Is that above the mean? I feel it is.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Z's contract may be too long. But personally, I worry more about Abby's, Helm's & Big E's contracts. Nielsen's if he isn't getting back towards previous numbers that he put up.

Why worry? GMs are paid to worry about those contracts. Remember when Huet's contract was supposedly a huge anchor for Chicago? Or Clarkson for Toronto? How Datsyuk's caphit would stop us from spending money?

You can almost always get out from under a bad contract. Buyouts, waivers, cap dump trades (LV will be a cap dump team) etc.
Yeah some guys will be overpaid at the end of their contracts. But the potential damage to our team is small.

Z's and Framzen's contracts are special because of recapture penalties which can't be blamed on Holland.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

Gator and Helm's contracts are already awful.

Z and Franzen's were good for the first few years.

The Gator, Helm and Ericsson contracts are the holy trinity of awful.

Expecting Holland to move any of those contract's is a fantasy. They are part of the country club. It's why the Wings need a new GM in order to rebuild properly.

 

[ap3x]

Why worry? GMs are paid to worry about those contracts. Remember when Huet's contract was supposedly a huge anchor for Chicago? Or Clarkson for Toronto? How Datsyuk's caphit would stop us from spending money?

Worrying 'cause those concern my team's future and they don't look good at all.

 

[Mount Suribachi]

Eh, I don't really get why people are panicking over Zetterbergs contract. The guy literally broke his back, do you really think it's going to be a problem to put him on LTIR in a year or two? Sure, its horrible for the team that he's no longer one of the best players in the league, but I don't see how that one is going to hurt us long term.

Because as others have explained on these boards - if LTIR is a toilet where you flush contracts, there's only so much **** you can shove down there before it blocks.