How would another Stanley Cup Final loss impact McDavid's legacy? | Page 10 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

How would another Stanley Cup Final loss impact McDavid's legacy?

Dude... McDavid is 68 points away from Jagr in the playoffs, with 135 games less. Has 120pts in his last 67 games. He'll will most likely pass Jagr in playoff points before he's 32. Jagr never won a Smythe despite playing 225 playoff games. They each have 5 Ross, but McDavid's career is far from over. McDavid has 3 Hart to Jagr's one, while also being one of the only two unanimous Hart winners with Gretzky. One more Lindsay than Jagr with 4. He already beats Jagr in terms of trophies and if he passes Jagr in season points, he'll do it in far less games and won't need extended longevity to accomplish it. If McDavid's career spans as long as Jagr, we're probably looking at somewhere between 2000 and 2400 points. McDavid's legacy is already bigger than Jagr's and only needs to match him up in points, either in the reg or playoffs, to clearly pass him.

I'd also add that McDavid will hold top 3 positions in other sub categories for both season and playoffs, like 5v5 and ES points, assists, primary assists. #2 alltime for single playoff primary assists. Already has a major record in single playoff assists, which Jagr and other alumnies do not have.
The question was simple: where do you rank Jagr? We s as ready know where you rank McDavid.
 
The implied logic here is so strange. Surely it is more impressive to make the finals and lose than to lose in an earlier round. Not that team results should be attributed to a player in the first place.
This stems from Lebron vs Jordan debates , you'd think Micheal Jordan only played 6 years in the NBA. Apparently losing in the first round is better than Making the finals every year even in defeat lol. Nonsense
 
This stems from Lebron vs Jordan debates , you'd think Micheal Jordan only played 6 years in the NBA. Apparently losing in the first round is better than Making the finals every year even in defeat lol. Nonsense
I despise basketball debates for this reason. They make hockey and baseball debates look wholly logical in comparison.
 
I understand the main concept that you are presenting here.

But you are comparing Dionne/Perreault with Risebrough/Jarvis. Hall-of-Famers with 3rd-liners. Apples-to-oranges.

This thread is about McDavid's legacy. The thread title states "legacy".

This normally translates to "All time standing".

So, instead of comparing apples-to-oranges, compare apples-to-apples.

Compare McDavid to Crosby, for example.

Similar to how Marcel Dionne and Gilbert Perreault will never be held in as high regard as Guy Lafleur, I don't think McDavid will ever be held in as high regard as Crosby if McDavid can't ever win the Stanley Cup.

He doesn't have to win it this year. If he loses it this year again, people won't necessarily hold it against him as long as he can win it some year.

But if he finishes with 0 Stanley Cups? Then yes, his legacy suffers when comparing him against other all-time greats.

And I think that is fair, since all the legends and all-time greats before him were also judged by whether they won the Stanley Cup or not.

Crosby, Ovechkin, Lemieux, Gretzky, etc. They were all judged differently before they won the Stanley Cup. They all needed that Stanley Cup win to cement their legacy. Why make different rules for McDavid?
It’s a good thing he isn’t retiring next year.
 
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The question was simple: where do you rank Jagr? We s as ready know where you rank McDavid.

I don't like doing rankings. There are so many factors that have changed. One thing's for sure, having seen Gretzky and Lemieux in their apogee, along with all the other guys in their time and since then, McDavid is clearly the best player since 66 & 99, imo.
 
I don’t see any rational argument for Yzerman even being in the conversation alongside Crosby, let alone being ahead of him
Yzerman had three phenomenal seasons that were in McDavid territory but git overshadowed because Lemieux was in Grerzky territory, Bernie Nicholls was a one hit wonder (although to be fair he was a good scorer, but the 70 was a random fluke) and then Hull started his goal scoring fest.
 
Honestly, I always felt Crosby- while a fantastic player- was a bit of a letdown. He just never seemed to stand out head ans shoulders at any particular point in his career.
McDavid’s career is how I expected Crosby to be when he was drafted. Now Crosby is a bit less skillful than McDavid, but I still expected him to dominate, due to his hockey IQ and him playing in a weaker top end talent era. Apart from the cups his career was kinda a disappointment from a top 5 player perspective.
 
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Yzerman had three phenomenal seasons that were in McDavid territory but git overshadowed because Lemieux was in Grerzky territory, Bernie Nicholls was a one hit wonder (although to be fair he was a good scorer, but the 70 was a random fluke) and then Hull started his goal scoring fest.
Yzerman never approached McDavid level. When he hit 155 it was in one of the highest scoring seasons ever.
 
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I don't like doing rankings. There are so many factors that have changed. One thing's for sure, having seen Gretzky and Lemieux in their apogee, along with all the other guys in their time and since then, McDavid is clearly the best player since 66 & 99, imo.
Like I’ve posted before, there are only a few players I’d pay to watch live. McDavid is definitely the only one in that group (for me) since Bure. Some guys are great players because of their total package: Crosby, Datsyuk, Lidstrom, Forsberg, etc. Other guys were electric: Perrault, Orr, Mario, Bure. These are the guys I paid to watch. McDavid is electric. He worth the price of a great seat.
99 was a lot more subtle in his greatness. But he was absolutely a must see live.
 
Yzerman had three phenomenal seasons that were in McDavid territory but git overshadowed because Lemieux was in Grerzky territory, Bernie Nicholls was a one hit wonder (although to be fair he was a good scorer, but the 70 was a random fluke) and then Hull started his goal scoring fest.
Yzerman played in a way higher scoring era, his point totals in a vacuum don't matter that much. Crosby was a Hart finalist 7 times, Yzerman 2. Yzerman finished top 3 in scoring 1 year. Crosby has been top 3 in scoring 9 times. Same amount of Cups. Crosby has more individual awards.

Just to put in in perspective, Crosby finished top 3 in scoring 9 times not including his 2011 and 2012 seasons where he was in his physical peak at 23 and 24 years old.
 
This stems from Lebron vs Jordan debates , you'd think Micheal Jordan only played 6 years in the NBA. Apparently losing in the first round is better than Making the finals every year even in defeat lol. Nonsense
Yes I agree, I recognize the NBA discourse involved. I'd say that many, maybe most, basketball fans do hold it against a player for making the finals and losing more than they would for losing in the first round or not making the playoffs. You see it with quarterbacks and the super bowl too.
 
Yzerman never approached McDavid level. When he hit 155 it was in one of the highest scoring seasons ever.
What? 155 points is 155 points. Sticks were crap back then. Skates were dull. The ice was horrid. McDavid can change his blades in a flash and have sharp skates every shift. He has the advantage of stick tech. And great ice.
 
Yzerman played in a way higher scoring era, his point totals in a vacuum don't matter that much

I was referring relative to his peers, not per se.
. Crosby was a Hart finalist 7 times, Yzerman 2. Yzerman finished top 3 in scoring 1 year. Crosby has been top 3 in scoring 9 times. Same amount of Cups. Crosby has more individual awards.
Remember, the overlap with Lemieux and Gretzky, the two greatest players of all time
Just to put in in perspective, Crosby finished top 3 in scoring 9 times not including his 2011 and 2012 seasons where he was in his physical peak at 23 and 24 years old.
All good, which makes him a great player but his numbers were never head and shoulders above the rest like McDavid, Gretzky, Lemieux...
 

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