How will Erik Karlsson be remembered? | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

How will Erik Karlsson be remembered?

Matsun

Registered User
Aug 15, 2010
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To me and many others Erik Karlsson is the most gifted offensive d-man since Leetch and maybe even back to Coffey, but will he be remembered that way in history? EKs peak is sandwiched by higher scoring eras and he himself inspired more defenders to play offense so his stats don't stand out at all anymore. His best ppg in a season is only the 8th best since the lockout (tied with Lidstrom) and he was never close to the numbers that Josi and Makar produces this season. Josi has 42 points in his last 27 games! When covid interrupted the season a player like John Carlson had 75 points in 69 games. I don't mean to disrespect John Carlson but come on? that's a higher PPG than EK ever had in a season. Even during EKs peak Brent Burns matched his points production. Hedman this season is on pace to match EKs peak point total as well. It would be one thing if it were only younger players like Makar, but EK's point totals are going to be overshadowed by his direct competitors and Josi and John Carlson were even in the same draft class as him. Those who followed EK know about his injuries and the changing scoring environment, but will people really remember that with hindsight? With EK still in the league and being dominated and his peak point totals looking less and less impressive will people underrate him in the future? I think it's interesting because after the 16-17 playoffs I thought EK was going to challenge Coffey as peoples clear cut 2nd best offensive d-man ever, but now I think he might end up underrated. What do you think?
 
He is not nearly as relevant right now as he was until 2017. When he will be retired people will put it in perspective again though and consider him one of the best defensemen of his generation along with Hedman, Doughty and Josi. The injury problems have robbed him of the chance of being more than that though. So he will be a hall of famer but not be considered one of the absolute greats like Orr, Borque, Coffey, Lidström, Potvin etc.
 
Last edited:
would have been remembered with more sympathy and a greater legend if he had been so injured after his playoff run that he had to retire instead of limping on as a mediocre player.

but, like the guy above me said, it will come out in the wash when people look back.

personally, i wish he had had one more healthy year to get another Norris, to really solidify what we all saw into the history books. (probably should have had another Norris previously, too)
 
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Honestly, I always thought Mike Green had the better offensive season in that timeframe. Hell, I'll even venture to say he'd have been the better offensive D if he doesn't get injured.

2009: 31-42-73 in 68 games, age 23
2010: 19-57-76 in 75 games, age 24

Then misses ~130 games over the next 3 seasons from injuries and is never the same player.
 
he’ll always look great in highlights so i think that will help his legacy in the long run, once post-peak karlsson fades from ppl’s minds

i mean look what one bonkers end to end rush from his third year in the league has done and continues to do for niedermayer’s place among the greats.
Eh but Niedermayer's trophy case only exists late in his career. It's a weird thing - late peaks (often) end up elevating the entire career in hindsight, while being a middling player late in the career has the effect of dropping the consideration.

For instance - I'd probably put money that if you had a Niedermayer v. Chelios poll on the polls section, Nieds would win. Because our memories of Chelios are a 48 year old who could barely skate and was well past his best by date.

Edit: Was curious so I actually posted that poll.
 
Eh but Niedermayer's trophy case only exists late in his career. It's a weird thing - late peaks (often) end up elevating the entire career in hindsight, while being a middling player late in the career has the effect of dropping the consideration.

For instance - I'd probably put money that if you had a Niedermayer v. Chelios poll on the polls section, Nieds would win. Because our memories of Chelios are a 48 year old who could barely skate and was well past his best by date.

Edit: Was curious so I actually posted that poll.
Chelios is a lot better than Niedermayer. The latter was a MUCH better skater. I'll give him that.
 
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Here are the 20 highest PPG seasons for D-men during Karlssons career (min 40 games):
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Player[/TD]
[TD]Season[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]+/-[/TD]
[TD]PPG[/TD]
[TD]EVP[/TD]
[TD]PPP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Roman Josi[/TD]

[TD]
20212022​
[/TD]

[TD]NSH[/TD]

[TD]
59​
[/TD]

[TD]
17​
[/TD]

[TD]
55​
[/TD]

[TD]
72​
[/TD]

[TD]
20​
[/TD]

[TD]
1,22​
[/TD]

[TD]
44​
[/TD]

[TD]
28​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cale Makar[/TD]

[TD]
20212022​
[/TD]

[TD]COL[/TD]

[TD]
57​
[/TD]

[TD]
21​
[/TD]

[TD]
45​
[/TD]

[TD]
66​
[/TD]

[TD]
37​
[/TD]

[TD]
1,16​
[/TD]

[TD]
42​
[/TD]

[TD]
24​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]John Carlson[/TD]

[TD]
20192020​
[/TD]

[TD]WSH[/TD]

[TD]
69​
[/TD]

[TD]
15​
[/TD]

[TD]
60​
[/TD]

[TD]
75​
[/TD]

[TD]
12​
[/TD]

[TD]
1,09​
[/TD]

[TD]
49​
[/TD]

[TD]
26​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Adam Fox[/TD]

[TD]
20212022​
[/TD]

[TD]NYR[/TD]

[TD]
58​
[/TD]

[TD]
9​
[/TD]

[TD]
52​
[/TD]

[TD]
61​
[/TD]

[TD]
8​
[/TD]

[TD]
1,05​
[/TD]

[TD]
32​
[/TD]

[TD]
27​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mike Green[/TD]

[TD]
20092010​
[/TD]

[TD]WSH[/TD]

[TD]
75​
[/TD]

[TD]
19​
[/TD]

[TD]
57​
[/TD]

[TD]
76​
[/TD]

[TD]
39​
[/TD]

[TD]
1,01​
[/TD]

[TD]
40​
[/TD]

[TD]
35​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brent Burns[/TD]

[TD]
20182019​
[/TD]

[TD]SJS[/TD]

[TD]
82​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]

[TD]
67​
[/TD]

[TD]
83​
[/TD]

[TD]
13​
[/TD]

[TD]
1,01​
[/TD]

[TD]
50​
[/TD]

[TD]
28​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Erik Karlsson[/TD]

[TD]
20152016​
[/TD]

[TD]OTT[/TD]

[TD]
82​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]

[TD]
66​
[/TD]

[TD]
82​
[/TD]

[TD]
-2​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
56​
[/TD]

[TD]
26​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Victor Hedman[/TD]

[TD]
20212022​
[/TD]

[TD]TBL[/TD]

[TD]
60​
[/TD]

[TD]
17​
[/TD]

[TD]
43​
[/TD]

[TD]
60​
[/TD]

[TD]
13​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
36​
[/TD]

[TD]
24​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cale Makar[/TD]

[TD]
20202021​
[/TD]

[TD]COL[/TD]

[TD]
44​
[/TD]

[TD]
8​
[/TD]

[TD]
36​
[/TD]

[TD]
44​
[/TD]

[TD]
17​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
22​
[/TD]

[TD]
22​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Erik Karlsson[/TD]

[TD]
20112012​
[/TD]

[TD]OTT[/TD]

[TD]
81​
[/TD]

[TD]
19​
[/TD]

[TD]
59​
[/TD]

[TD]
78​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,96​
[/TD]

[TD]
50​
[/TD]

[TD]
28​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Aaron Ekblad[/TD]

[TD]
20212022​
[/TD]

[TD]FLA[/TD]

[TD]
60​
[/TD]

[TD]
15​
[/TD]

[TD]
42​
[/TD]

[TD]
57​
[/TD]

[TD]
38​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,95​
[/TD]

[TD]
34​
[/TD]

[TD]
20​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mark Giordano[/TD]

[TD]
20182019​
[/TD]

[TD]CGY[/TD]

[TD]
78​
[/TD]

[TD]
17​
[/TD]

[TD]
57​
[/TD]

[TD]
74​
[/TD]

[TD]
39​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,95​
[/TD]

[TD]
47​
[/TD]

[TD]
21​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kris Letang[/TD]

[TD]
20152016​
[/TD]

[TD]PIT[/TD]

[TD]
71​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]

[TD]
51​
[/TD]

[TD]
67​
[/TD]

[TD]
9​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,94​
[/TD]

[TD]
37​
[/TD]

[TD]
27​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Roman Josi[/TD]

[TD]
20192020​
[/TD]

[TD]NSH[/TD]

[TD]
69​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]

[TD]
49​
[/TD]

[TD]
65​
[/TD]

[TD]
22​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,94​
[/TD]

[TD]
42​
[/TD]

[TD]
23​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tony DeAngelo[/TD]

[TD]
20212022​
[/TD]

[TD]CAR[/TD]

[TD]
43​
[/TD]

[TD]
9​
[/TD]

[TD]
31​
[/TD]

[TD]
40​
[/TD]

[TD]
19​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,93​
[/TD]

[TD]
24​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brent Burns[/TD]

[TD]
20162017​
[/TD]

[TD]SJS[/TD]

[TD]
82​
[/TD]

[TD]
29​
[/TD]

[TD]
47​
[/TD]

[TD]
76​
[/TD]

[TD]
19​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,93​
[/TD]

[TD]
50​
[/TD]

[TD]
25​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Erik Karlsson[/TD]

[TD]
20162017​
[/TD]

[TD]OTT[/TD]

[TD]
77​
[/TD]

[TD]
17​
[/TD]

[TD]
54​
[/TD]

[TD]
71​
[/TD]

[TD]
10​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,92​
[/TD]

[TD]
42​
[/TD]

[TD]
27​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brent Burns[/TD]

[TD]
20152016​
[/TD]

[TD]SJS[/TD]

[TD]
82​
[/TD]

[TD]
27​
[/TD]

[TD]
48​
[/TD]

[TD]
75​
[/TD]

[TD]
-5​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,91​
[/TD]

[TD]
43​
[/TD]

[TD]
30​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Victor Hedman[/TD]

[TD]
20162017​
[/TD]

[TD]TBL[/TD]

[TD]
79​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]

[TD]
56​
[/TD]

[TD]
72​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,91​
[/TD]

[TD]
39​
[/TD]

[TD]
33​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]P.K. Subban[/TD]

[TD]
20122013​
[/TD]

[TD]MTL[/TD]

[TD]
42​
[/TD]

[TD]
11​
[/TD]

[TD]
27​
[/TD]

[TD]
38​
[/TD]

[TD]
12​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,9​
[/TD]

[TD]
12​
[/TD]

[TD]
26​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
i can’t argue with this, but to TMK’s point how many ppl even know how great of a skater young chelios was anymore?
That answer depends on the person's age. For me, I only caught the latter part of his prime. I'm sure he was likely a better skater in Montreal than during his final Norris years in Chicago.
 
Here are the 20 highest PPG seasons for D-men during Karlssons career (min 40 games):
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Player[/TD]
[TD]Season[/TD]
[TD]Team[/TD]
[TD]GP[/TD]
[TD]G[/TD]
[TD]A[/TD]
[TD]P[/TD]
[TD]+/-[/TD]
[TD]PPG[/TD]
[TD]EVP[/TD]
[TD]PPP[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Roman Josi[/TD]

[TD]
20212022​
[/TD]

[TD]NSH[/TD]

[TD]
59​
[/TD]

[TD]
17​
[/TD]

[TD]
55​
[/TD]

[TD]
72​
[/TD]

[TD]
20​
[/TD]

[TD]
1,22​
[/TD]

[TD]
44​
[/TD]

[TD]
28​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cale Makar[/TD]

[TD]
20212022​
[/TD]

[TD]COL[/TD]

[TD]
57​
[/TD]

[TD]
21​
[/TD]

[TD]
45​
[/TD]

[TD]
66​
[/TD]

[TD]
37​
[/TD]

[TD]
1,16​
[/TD]

[TD]
42​
[/TD]

[TD]
24​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]John Carlson[/TD]

[TD]
20192020​
[/TD]

[TD]WSH[/TD]

[TD]
69​
[/TD]

[TD]
15​
[/TD]

[TD]
60​
[/TD]

[TD]
75​
[/TD]

[TD]
12​
[/TD]

[TD]
1,09​
[/TD]

[TD]
49​
[/TD]

[TD]
26​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Adam Fox[/TD]

[TD]
20212022​
[/TD]

[TD]NYR[/TD]

[TD]
58​
[/TD]

[TD]
9​
[/TD]

[TD]
52​
[/TD]

[TD]
61​
[/TD]

[TD]
8​
[/TD]

[TD]
1,05​
[/TD]

[TD]
32​
[/TD]

[TD]
27​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mike Green[/TD]

[TD]
20092010​
[/TD]

[TD]WSH[/TD]

[TD]
75​
[/TD]

[TD]
19​
[/TD]

[TD]
57​
[/TD]

[TD]
76​
[/TD]

[TD]
39​
[/TD]

[TD]
1,01​
[/TD]

[TD]
40​
[/TD]

[TD]
35​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brent Burns[/TD]

[TD]
20182019​
[/TD]

[TD]SJS[/TD]

[TD]
82​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]

[TD]
67​
[/TD]

[TD]
83​
[/TD]

[TD]
13​
[/TD]

[TD]
1,01​
[/TD]

[TD]
50​
[/TD]

[TD]
28​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Erik Karlsson[/TD]

[TD]
20152016​
[/TD]

[TD]OTT[/TD]

[TD]
82​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]

[TD]
66​
[/TD]

[TD]
82​
[/TD]

[TD]
-2​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
56​
[/TD]

[TD]
26​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Victor Hedman[/TD]

[TD]
20212022​
[/TD]

[TD]TBL[/TD]

[TD]
60​
[/TD]

[TD]
17​
[/TD]

[TD]
43​
[/TD]

[TD]
60​
[/TD]

[TD]
13​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
36​
[/TD]

[TD]
24​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Cale Makar[/TD]

[TD]
20202021​
[/TD]

[TD]COL[/TD]

[TD]
44​
[/TD]

[TD]
8​
[/TD]

[TD]
36​
[/TD]

[TD]
44​
[/TD]

[TD]
17​
[/TD]

[TD]
1​
[/TD]

[TD]
22​
[/TD]

[TD]
22​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Erik Karlsson[/TD]

[TD]
20112012​
[/TD]

[TD]OTT[/TD]

[TD]
81​
[/TD]

[TD]
19​
[/TD]

[TD]
59​
[/TD]

[TD]
78​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,96​
[/TD]

[TD]
50​
[/TD]

[TD]
28​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Aaron Ekblad[/TD]

[TD]
20212022​
[/TD]

[TD]FLA[/TD]

[TD]
60​
[/TD]

[TD]
15​
[/TD]

[TD]
42​
[/TD]

[TD]
57​
[/TD]

[TD]
38​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,95​
[/TD]

[TD]
34​
[/TD]

[TD]
20​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mark Giordano[/TD]

[TD]
20182019​
[/TD]

[TD]CGY[/TD]

[TD]
78​
[/TD]

[TD]
17​
[/TD]

[TD]
57​
[/TD]

[TD]
74​
[/TD]

[TD]
39​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,95​
[/TD]

[TD]
47​
[/TD]

[TD]
21​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kris Letang[/TD]

[TD]
20152016​
[/TD]

[TD]PIT[/TD]

[TD]
71​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]

[TD]
51​
[/TD]

[TD]
67​
[/TD]

[TD]
9​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,94​
[/TD]

[TD]
37​
[/TD]

[TD]
27​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Roman Josi[/TD]

[TD]
20192020​
[/TD]

[TD]NSH[/TD]

[TD]
69​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]

[TD]
49​
[/TD]

[TD]
65​
[/TD]

[TD]
22​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,94​
[/TD]

[TD]
42​
[/TD]

[TD]
23​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tony DeAngelo[/TD]

[TD]
20212022​
[/TD]

[TD]CAR[/TD]

[TD]
43​
[/TD]

[TD]
9​
[/TD]

[TD]
31​
[/TD]

[TD]
40​
[/TD]

[TD]
19​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,93​
[/TD]

[TD]
24​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brent Burns[/TD]

[TD]
20162017​
[/TD]

[TD]SJS[/TD]

[TD]
82​
[/TD]

[TD]
29​
[/TD]

[TD]
47​
[/TD]

[TD]
76​
[/TD]

[TD]
19​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,93​
[/TD]

[TD]
50​
[/TD]

[TD]
25​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Erik Karlsson[/TD]

[TD]
20162017​
[/TD]

[TD]OTT[/TD]

[TD]
77​
[/TD]

[TD]
17​
[/TD]

[TD]
54​
[/TD]

[TD]
71​
[/TD]

[TD]
10​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,92​
[/TD]

[TD]
42​
[/TD]

[TD]
27​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brent Burns[/TD]

[TD]
20152016​
[/TD]

[TD]SJS[/TD]

[TD]
82​
[/TD]

[TD]
27​
[/TD]

[TD]
48​
[/TD]

[TD]
75​
[/TD]

[TD]
-5​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,91​
[/TD]

[TD]
43​
[/TD]

[TD]
30​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Victor Hedman[/TD]

[TD]
20162017​
[/TD]

[TD]TBL[/TD]

[TD]
79​
[/TD]

[TD]
16​
[/TD]

[TD]
56​
[/TD]

[TD]
72​
[/TD]

[TD]
3​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,91​
[/TD]

[TD]
39​
[/TD]

[TD]
33​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]P.K. Subban[/TD]

[TD]
20122013​
[/TD]

[TD]MTL[/TD]

[TD]
42​
[/TD]

[TD]
11​
[/TD]

[TD]
27​
[/TD]

[TD]
38​
[/TD]

[TD]
12​
[/TD]

[TD]
0,9​
[/TD]

[TD]
12​
[/TD]

[TD]
26​
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Not a surprise that other than Mike Green, everyone ahead of Karlsson did it/is doing it in a scoring environment of 6.0+ GPG (as well the first four seasons other than his own behind him). The four times he passed 70 points, league wide scoring around 5.5 GPG.

Put him at his peak in today’s environment and he is very likely flirting with 100 points and probably scoring 85-95 four times.
 
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Not a surprise that other than Mike Green, everyone ahead of Karlsson did it/is doing it in a scoring environment of 6.0+ GPG (as well the first four seasons other than his own behind him). The four times he passed 70 points, league wide scoring around 5.5 GPG.

Put him at his peak in today’s environment and he is very likely flirting with 100 points and probably scoring 85-95 four times.
I agree, I think he both peaked at the worst possible time and declined at the worst possible time.
 
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I think you bring valid points, future young people that look at points total could miss how special Karlsson was, because he peaked in a time with less goals scored than the late90/early 2000s dpe.

Top 30 season "adjusted" post lock-out

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]fullName[/TD]
[TD]season[/TD]
[TD]numGames[/TD]
[TD]Tgames[/TD]
[TD]TPoints[/TD]
[TD]proRatedCanadianAvgTo82[/TD]
[TD]AdjustedSeasonPoints[/TD]
[TD]ppg[/TD]
[TD]ppgAdjusted[/TD]
[TD]playerSeasonRank[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Erik Karlsson[/TD]
[TD]20152016[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]65.2[/TD]
[TD]121.35[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1.48[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]John Carlson[/TD]
[TD]20192020[/TD]
[TD]70[/TD]
[TD]69[/TD]
[TD]75[/TD]
[TD]74.2[/TD]
[TD]114.25[/TD]
[TD]1.09[/TD]
[TD]1.41[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brent Burns[/TD]
[TD]20162017[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[TD]64.7[/TD]
[TD]113.34[/TD]
[TD]0.93[/TD]
[TD]1.38[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brent Burns[/TD]
[TD]20152016[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]75[/TD]
[TD]65.2[/TD]
[TD]110.99[/TD]
[TD]0.91[/TD]
[TD]1.35[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Victor Hedman[/TD]
[TD]20162017[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]79[/TD]
[TD]72[/TD]
[TD]64.7[/TD]
[TD]107.37[/TD]
[TD]0.91[/TD]
[TD]1.36[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Erik Karlsson[/TD]
[TD]20162017[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]77[/TD]
[TD]71[/TD]
[TD]64.7[/TD]
[TD]105.88[/TD]
[TD]0.92[/TD]
[TD]1.38[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Erik Karlsson[/TD]
[TD]20112012[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]81[/TD]
[TD]78[/TD]
[TD]71.1[/TD]
[TD]105.85[/TD]
[TD]0.96[/TD]
[TD]1.31[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Erik Karlsson[/TD]
[TD]20132014[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[TD]70.7[/TD]
[TD]100.99[/TD]
[TD]0.9[/TD]
[TD]1.23[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mike Green[/TD]
[TD]20092010[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]75[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[TD]73.4[/TD]
[TD]99.91[/TD]
[TD]1.01[/TD]
[TD]1.33[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kris Letang[/TD]
[TD]20152016[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]71[/TD]
[TD]67[/TD]
[TD]65.2[/TD]
[TD]99.15[/TD]
[TD]0.94[/TD]
[TD]1.4[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Roman Josi[/TD]
[TD]20192020[/TD]
[TD]70[/TD]
[TD]69[/TD]
[TD]65[/TD]
[TD]74.2[/TD]
[TD]99.01[/TD]
[TD]0.94[/TD]
[TD]1.22[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brent Burns[/TD]
[TD]20182019[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]83[/TD]
[TD]81.2[/TD]
[TD]98.63[/TD]
[TD]1.01[/TD]
[TD]1.2[/TD]
[TD]3[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Erik Karlsson[/TD]
[TD]20142015[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]66[/TD]
[TD]66.5[/TD]
[TD]95.76[/TD]
[TD]0.8[/TD]
[TD]1.17[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Nicklas Lidstrom[/TD]
[TD]20052006[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]80[/TD]
[TD]80[/TD]
[TD]81.8[/TD]
[TD]94.36[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]1.18[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Lubomir Visnovsky[/TD]
[TD]20102011[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]81[/TD]
[TD]68[/TD]
[TD]71.4[/TD]
[TD]91.89[/TD]
[TD]0.84[/TD]
[TD]1.13[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mike Green[/TD]
[TD]20082009[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]68[/TD]
[TD]73[/TD]
[TD]76.9[/TD]
[TD]91.59[/TD]
[TD]1.07[/TD]
[TD]1.35[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Duncan Keith[/TD]
[TD]20092010[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]69[/TD]
[TD]73.4[/TD]
[TD]90.7[/TD]
[TD]0.84[/TD]
[TD]1.11[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Roman Josi[/TD]
[TD]20152016[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]81[/TD]
[TD]61[/TD]
[TD]65.2[/TD]
[TD]90.27[/TD]
[TD]0.75[/TD]
[TD]1.11[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Nicklas Lidstrom[/TD]
[TD]20072008[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[TD]70[/TD]
[TD]75.9[/TD]
[TD]88.99[/TD]
[TD]0.92[/TD]
[TD]1.17[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Tyson Barrie[/TD]
[TD]20202021[/TD]
[TD]56[/TD]
[TD]56[/TD]
[TD]48[/TD]
[TD]76.8[/TD]
[TD]88.3[/TD]
[TD]0.86[/TD]
[TD]1.08[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Mark Giordano[/TD]
[TD]20182019[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]78[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[TD]81.2[/TD]
[TD]87.93[/TD]
[TD]0.95[/TD]
[TD]1.13[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]John Carlson[/TD]
[TD]20172018[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]68[/TD]
[TD]74.9[/TD]
[TD]87.6[/TD]
[TD]0.83[/TD]
[TD]1.07[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brent Burns[/TD]
[TD]20142015[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]60[/TD]
[TD]66.5[/TD]
[TD]87.06[/TD]
[TD]0.73[/TD]
[TD]1.06[/TD]
[TD]4[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]P.K. Subban[/TD]
[TD]20142015[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]60[/TD]
[TD]66.5[/TD]
[TD]87.06[/TD]
[TD]0.73[/TD]
[TD]1.06[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Adam Fox[/TD]
[TD]20202021[/TD]
[TD]56[/TD]
[TD]55[/TD]
[TD]47[/TD]
[TD]76.8[/TD]
[TD]86.46[/TD]
[TD]0.85[/TD]
[TD]1.07[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brent Burns[/TD]
[TD]20172018[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]67[/TD]
[TD]74.9[/TD]
[TD]86.31[/TD]
[TD]0.82[/TD]
[TD]1.05[/TD]
[TD]5[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]John Klingberg[/TD]
[TD]20172018[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]67[/TD]
[TD]74.9[/TD]
[TD]86.31[/TD]
[TD]0.82[/TD]
[TD]1.05[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]John Klingberg[/TD]
[TD]20152016[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[TD]58[/TD]
[TD]65.2[/TD]
[TD]85.83[/TD]
[TD]0.76[/TD]
[TD]1.13[/TD]
[TD]2[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Morgan Rielly[/TD]
[TD]20182019[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[TD]72[/TD]
[TD]81.2[/TD]
[TD]85.56[/TD]
[TD]0.88[/TD]
[TD]1.04[/TD]
[TD]1[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

And he did that with the Senators, not the Capitals/Tampa/Sharks/Penguins/Wings offensive powerhouse, that factor can be overplayed and he enjoyed some benefit to being the team most single focus has well, but it made it look more impressive when you watched it.

Burns is close, but Karlsson I think is not controversially the best offensive DMan of the post lockout era, with impressive new challenger that are well started to really challenge that (the Makar and so on)

Best 7 seasons combined:
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]fullName[/TD]
[TD]primaryPosition_code[/TD]
[TD]BestSeasonsPoints[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Erik Karlsson[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]671[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Brent Burns[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]630[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Victor Hedman[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]564[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]John Carlson[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]559[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Kris Letang[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]544[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Roman Josi[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]538[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Keith Yandle[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]511[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]P.K. Subban[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]505[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Dustin Byfuglien[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]502[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Duncan Keith[/TD]
[TD]D[/TD]
[TD]502[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
 
Last edited:
We’ll see what happens with time, but judging from some recent polls lately on the main boards, it seems his prime is already getting a rosier treatment than I thought it would. Seems like a lot of his defensive question marks have now mostly been ignored more than they have been exaggerated as we often saw while he was with Ottawa. And his 2017 playoff run seems to be well regarded enough that his playoff reputation is sound as well.
 
Eh but Niedermayer's trophy case only exists late in his career. It's a weird thing - late peaks (often) end up elevating the entire career in hindsight, while being a middling player late in the career has the effect of dropping the consideration.

For instance - I'd probably put money that if you had a Niedermayer v. Chelios poll on the polls section, Nieds would win. Because our memories of Chelios are a 48 year old who could barely skate and was well past his best by date.

Edit: Was curious so I actually posted that poll.

I hope that you didn't bet any money there.
 
Another one of the great what ifs. Was well on his way to being arguably the best player in the world. Such a shame.
 
He's still on pace for a 62 point season, missing significant time to injury. But maybe he still has some stories left in him?
 
I will remember him being robbed a great career. He was still developing when Cooke injured him. Just coming from some months in Jokerit where coach taught him to play defense and a more sound game, he tore NHL up and was clearly best player. And that with a least two more years of development to accumulate into a fully skilled and strong player.
 
Honestly, I always thought Mike Green had the better offensive season in that timeframe. Hell, I'll even venture to say he'd have been the better offensive D if he doesn't get injured.

2009: 31-42-73 in 68 games, age 23
2010: 19-57-76 in 75 games, age 24

Then misses ~130 games over the next 3 seasons from injuries and is never the same player.
yeah Mike green would have definitely replicated those numbers in Ottawa LOL
 
I'm curious to see how he is remembered if he doesn't do anything significant again. People take a rosy view of his prime now, but if he sticks around for anther 8 years (or whatever) as a nothing special top pairing defenceman or a second pairing guy, memories will change. I think that he was robbed of a few Norris trophies and the two that he has won't stand out as memories fade.
 

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