How will Erik Karlsson be remembered? | Page 7 | HFBoards - NHL Message Board and Forum for National Hockey League

How will Erik Karlsson be remembered?

Karlsson has erratic career numbers.
He has positives but here are the negatives.
-Missed many games.
-Few powerplay goals.
-Does not kill penalties.
-Very few shorthanded points.
-Massive -103 on the plus minus.
-Goals per game is under .20 at .19.
-Very few playoff points.
So if he’s able to put up another 400 points he’s remembered like Phil Housley? Pretty similar sounding.

I abhore the Hockey Reference adjusted stats. But if you want to use them

Karlsson
96-92-86-82-78-73-63

Housley
79-76-75-68-68-64-62

Karlsson has the four highest seasons

If you order them
Karlsson 96
Karlsson 92

Karlsson 86
Karlsson 82

Housley 79
Karlsson 78
Housley 76
Housley 75
Karlsson 73

Housley 68
Housley 68
Housley 64
Karlsson 63
Housley 62
Housley had a 97 point season, no? The guy is in the HHOF and top five all time scorers for D. He was a point producing machine.
 
So if he’s able to put up another 400 points he’s remembered like Phil Housley? Pretty similar sounding.


Housley had a 97 point season, no? The guy is in the HHOF and top five all time scorers for D. He was a point producing machine.
I'm posting the Hockey Reference adjusted numbers (because Frisco likes them)

Housley scored 97 in 1992-93, but that's basically the highest scoring year in in the NHL since the forward pass.

Good for 23rd in the league in scoring.

Compare the top tens in scoring each year

RankPlayerPoints
1Phil Housley97
2Paul Coffey87
3Larry Murphy85
4Steve Duchesne82
5Ray Bourque82
6Gary Suter81
7Kevin Hatcher79
8Jeff Brown78
9Chris Chelios73
10Al Iafrate66

So Housley outscored #5 by 1.18 and #10 by 1.47

Karlsson this year
RankPlayerPoints
1Erik Karlsson101
2Quinn Hughes76
3Josh Morrissey76
4Dougie Hamilton74
5Rasmus Dahlin73
6Miro Heiskanen73
7Brandon Montour73
8Adam Fox72
9Cale Makar66
10Mikhal Segachev64

Karlsson outscored #5 by 1.38 and #10 by 1.58
 
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Karlsson has erratic career numbers.
He has positives but here are the negatives.
-Missed many games.
-Few powerplay goals.
-Does not kill penalties.
-Very few shorthanded points.
-Massive -103 on the plus minus.
-Goals per game is under .20 at .19.
-Very few playoff points.
Since PPO started to normalize in 2011, Karlsson has the 13th most power play goals among d-men in that time. But he's 1st in power play points overall. And 2nd in even strength goals in that time span. So, even if we don't watch him at all for some reason, we clearly know that he's capable of scoring power play goals.

But, maybe, because he was on an absolute dog **** team for years, maybe his services were better used getting those guys much easier power play goals than taking the shot himself because it's unlikely that, say, Zach Smith (famed 100 assist NHLer that he is) can make the setup passes necessary to generate goals even when his team has more guys on the rink.

This is a great example of EK's strength, actually. Balanced attackers > single-source attackers.

Shorthanded points? Despite trying to double dip with "does not kill penalties", Karlsson is actually just 10 off of 2nd place in this category among d-men since 2011. That's Ryan McDonagh's 17. Yup, 17 shorthanded points across 900 games gets you 2nd place in that category. Who cares? If you want shorthanded points, EK would get you shorthanded points. But I caution, they aren't worth any more on the scoreboard...

Below 0.2 goals per game at 0.19? Ok. I'm not sure that 0.2 is the standard. But among players with 250 games since 2010:
1. Shea Weber 0.22
2. Brent Burns 0.21 (who has spent time at forward)
3. Dustin Byfuglien 0.20 (who has spent time at forward)
4. Erik Karlsson 0.19

I'll live with that.

Ya know, it's the craziest thing...attacking Erik Karlsson for his offense...just not something I thought I'd read in my entire life...
 
Karlsson has erratic career numbers.
He has positives but here are the negatives.
-Missed many games.
-Few powerplay goals.
-Does not kill penalties.
-Very few shorthanded points.
-Massive -103 on the plus minus.
-Goals per game is under .20 at .19.
-Very few playoff points.
2017 , if Ottawa scores in double OT. Instead of Kunitz, he likely gets the Conn Smythe trophy that year, he even had a few votes. Sounds like you didn’t watch those playoff. Not to mention he was playing on a broken ankle.

Since PPO started to normalize in 2011, Karlsson has the 13th most power play goals among d-men in that time. But he's 1st in power play points overall. And 2nd in even strength goals in that time span. So, even if we don't watch him at all for some reason, we clearly know that he's capable of scoring power play goals.

But, maybe, because he was on an absolute dog **** team for years, maybe his services were better used getting those guys much easier power play goals than taking the shot himself because it's unlikely that, say, Zach Smith (famed 100 assist NHLer that he is) can make the setup passes necessary to generate goals even when his team has more guys on the rink.

This is a great example of EK's strength, actually. Balanced attackers > single-source attackers.

Shorthanded points? Despite trying to double dip with "does not kill penalties", Karlsson is actually just 10 off of 2nd place in this category among d-men since 2011. That's Ryan McDonagh's 17. Yup, 17 shorthanded points across 900 games gets you 2nd place in that category. Who cares? If you want shorthanded points, EK would get you shorthanded points. But I caution, they aren't worth any more on the scoreboard...

Below 0.2 goals per game at 0.19? Ok. I'm not sure that 0.2 is the standard. But among players with 250 games since 2010:
1. Shea Weber 0.22
2. Brent Burns 0.21 (who has spent time at forward)
3. Dustin Byfuglien 0.20 (who has spent time at forward)
4. Erik Karlsson 0.19

I'll live with that.

Ya know, it's the craziest thing...attacking Erik Karlsson for his offense...just not something I thought I'd read in my entire life...
Nice , you used some real numbers, as opposed to the poster you quote. Who obviously doesn’t watch him, or just poor at evaluating.
 
.2 gpg vs .19gpg…

Over Karlsson’s 920 game career he’s scored 178 goals while his .19 gpg has left him with an average of 15.86 goals per 82 games.

Now if he was truly elite offensively and managed to hit .2 gpg he would have managed a career goal total of 184, an amazing 6 more goals scored over 920 games.
 
I'm posting the Hockey Reference adjusted numbers (because Frisco likes them)

Housley scored 97 in 1992-93, but that's basically the highest scoring year in in the NHL since the forward pass.

Good for 23rd in the league in scoring.

Compare the top tens in scoring each year

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Rank[/TD]
[TD]Player[/TD]
[TD]Points[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Phil Housley[/TD]
[TD]97[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Paul Coffey[/TD]
[TD]87[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Larry Murphy[/TD]
[TD]85[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Steve Duchesne[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Ray Bourque[/TD]
[TD]82[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Gary Suter[/TD]
[TD]81[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]Kevin Hatcher[/TD]
[TD]79[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]Jeff Brown[/TD]
[TD]78[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]Chris Chelios[/TD]
[TD]73[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Al Iafrate[/TD]
[TD]66[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

So Housley outscored #5 by 1.18 and #10 by 1.47

Karlsson this year
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Rank[/TD]
[TD]Player[/TD]
[TD]Points[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]1[/TD]
[TD]Erik Karlsson[/TD]
[TD]101[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2[/TD]
[TD]Quinn Hughes[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]3[/TD]
[TD]Josh Morrissey[/TD]
[TD]76[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]4[/TD]
[TD]Dougie Hamilton[/TD]
[TD]74[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]5[/TD]
[TD]Rasmus Dahlin[/TD]
[TD]73[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]6[/TD]
[TD]Miro Heiskanen[/TD]
[TD]73[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]7[/TD]
[TD]Brandon Montour[/TD]
[TD]73[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]8[/TD]
[TD]Adam Fox[/TD]
[TD]72[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]9[/TD]
[TD]Cale Makar[/TD]
[TD]66[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]10[/TD]
[TD]Mikhal Segachev[/TD]
[TD]64[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

Karlsson outscored #5 by 1.38 and #10 by 1.58
Fans can spin the numbers however they prefer, but I’m thinking the actual numbers are what matters. EK produces similarly to Housley. He’s also a minus player most years, which is also similar to Housley. And imo he will be in the HHOF same as Housley. Two great players.
 
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I’m thinking the actual numbers are what matters.
peak Maruk > Joe Sakic/Ovechkin/Crosby/Gordie Howe, McDavid 2023 or Nicholls 1989, almost exact same ppg but Nicholls score more goals

I get putting more weight on actual numbers and being suspicious of any adjustment process, but when comparing what was arguably the biggest year to boost top players scoring that was 92-93 to a very low scoring era that was Karlsson peak or some of the 06 tight defensive, no curved stick, one need to be open minded.

Significantly inferior Karlsson putting over 100 now that scoring is high again being a bit of a proof in the pudding, there was 34% more goals scored per game in 92-93 than 15-16, 2 more games played and teams had in average 5.28 power plays by games vs 3.11, distributing scoring toward first PP units player a lot.
 
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Crosby’s goalscoring will be remembered very similarly to Blaine Stoughton’s. Both in peak and on a per game. Too bad Stoughton couldn’t hang around the league longer.
 
Crosby’s goalscoring will be remembered very similarly to Blaine Stoughton’s. Both in peak and on a per game. Too bad Stoughton couldn’t hang around the league longer.

Blaine Stoughton I remember as ”The Whalers’ 50 goal scorer whose name I always forget when doing Sporcle quizzes”: I’m sure I will remember Crosby the goal scorer and otherwise :)
 
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