Player Discussion How overpaid is Tavares

[hotpaws]

This is the most relevant take re: 2nd line, Tavares, Marner

Marner and Nylander both traditionally play RW though... so unless either play LW (or C) it may not work out

I still think Tavares should be not be a 2C on a good playoff team but who else is there at this point?

Willie can play on the left and we could always use Jarncrock between Mitch and Willie if the 2nd line keeps getting filled in once he's gets back in .

but you're right there really is no good solution to our 2nd line C spot

 

[genk]

I bet Marner would make a fantastic center.

 

[Leafs98]

He's looking good at WC. Not sure what to make of it. Get him for 2 years @4.5 after next season.

 

[Gabriel426]

He's looking good at WC. Not sure what to make of it. Get him for 2 years @4.5 after next season.

He is auditioning for other teams. He would actually be good at Chicago

 

[Leafs98]

He is auditioning for other teams. He would actually be good at Chicago

I like it. Upping his demand a bit for more options.

 

[Confucius]

Trying to determine how much value Tavares providws us?

Tavares makes 11M and has seen his offense die

Is Tavares worth 50%, 40%, 30% of his deal?

He should be around 4.5M so about 60% overpaid

I’d say JT is worth a million a year more than Bertuzzi not a million less.

 

[Stephen]

He's looking good at WC. Not sure what to make of it. Get him for 2 years @4.5 after next season.

I think someone else can offer him that contract. He's a good guy, been here a while and that isn't bad money but we just need something different than a 35 year old JT. If it wasn't working at 31, 32, 33, 34, I don't we need to keep doing the same thing with him in a reduced role.

Save the cap space for something different.

 

[Gilmour1996]

After his contract expires, I would quickly name someone else captain before worrying about signing Tavares.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

He's looking good at WC. Not sure what to make of it. Get him for 2 years @4.5 after next season.

I wouldn't even need to think about not offering him that deal. In fact I'd have to really think about offering him 2x1.5.

He doesn't PK, the PP dies almost every time on his stick, he has no offensive creativity anymore, he gets puck he shoots puck or gives it away, he can't skate, he offers no physicality except getting his own body bruised. He is fed top offensive minutes and can barely come out positive every season. Actually he is -8 combined in the last 5 seasons playing with elite talent. And most importantly he has 24 points in 38 playoff games. Thats a 52 point pace through a lot of his prime years. That disgusting.

 

[Gilmour1996]

I wouldn't even need to think about not offering him that deal. In fact I'd have to really think about offering him 2x1.5.

I might go 1 year max at 2.0-2.5M, provided he's not the captain.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

I might go 1 year max at 2.0-2.5M, provided he's not the captain.

I see lots of people saying numbers like 4-7 million for multiple years and I just cringe at the thought. Like are we watching the same thing?

 

[Gabriel426]

I can see the appeal of having a 25 goals/55pts 3C at 4-5mil. Don’t know how 5-7mil come from.
However, I just don’t think JT can provide those numbers as a 3C who won’t be playing with top end playmakers, no PP1 time unless injuries to others top end guys and declining foot speed.

For 2-3mil or less, I think that’s a good gamble but he needs to either start forechecking like Hyman and stop learning lessons.

 

[WillyC]

Beautiful pass from Captain Tavares to Hagel on the game winner against Finland.

Go Canada

 

[Legion34]

Reminder that he signed below market value and then a pandemic hit and the NHL/world handled it like morons.

A 30 g 65 pt c is probably 6.5 ish in cap.
In today’s 83.5. If the cap was 100 probably a few overpaid. But that’s part of it.

He was a ppg player until this year.

If he is staying I hope it’s 4-5 million

 

[hamzarocks]

Reminder that he signed below market value and then a pandemic hit and the NHL/world handled it like morons.

A 30 g 65 pt c is probably 6.5 ish in cap.
In today’s 83.5. If the cap was 100 probably a few overpaid. But that’s part of it.

He was a ppg player until this year.

If he is staying I hope it’s 4-5 million

2 pts in 7 playoff games

He should never wear the maple leafs sweater after next year

He is the worst piece of the core that gets spoonfed chances and opportunities but he still cant produce

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Reminder that he signed below market value and then a pandemic hit and the NHL/world handled it like morons.

A 30 g 65 pt c is probably 6.5 ish in cap.
In today’s 83.5. If the cap was 100 probably a few overpaid. But that’s part of it.

He was a ppg player until this year.

If he is staying I hope it’s 4-5 million

What point per game players make 11 million? That's not a good deal and it's not market value. And he's not even a ppg player. In 15 seasons he was a ppg player or higher 5 times and 2 of his 6 seasons as a leaf.

To suggest that Tavares signed for "below market value" is hysterical. You're going to say that the Sharks offered 13 million so that was his market value (they never said at what term, btw). You get that? The market value for a near ppg player was 13 million 7 years ago. Yet Matthews is the highest player in the league at 13.5 million as a 60+ goal scorer with a higher cap 7 years later.

Like, enough of this spin, lies, and bullshit. It was a horrible contract in hindsight. We loved it at the time under 2 caveats. 1: We believed that if he was a ppg player surrounded by scrubs then he would be significantly better than that surrounded by the leafs core (like he was JUST in the first season). And 2: We didn't know our rfa's would use the contract as a comparable and force our rookie gm to hand out unprecedented dramatic overpayments to players that had literally ZERO leverage.

 

[Legion34]

What point per game players make 11 million? That's not a good deal and it's not market value. And he's not even a ppg player. In 15 seasons he was a ppg player or higher 5 times and 2 of his 6 seasons as a leaf.

To suggest that Tavares signed for "below market value" is hysterical. You're going to say that the Sharks offered 13 million so that was his market value (they never said at what term, btw). You get that? The market value for a near ppg player was 13 million 7 years ago. Yet Matthews is the highest player in the league at 13.5 million as a 60+ goal scorer with a higher cap 7 years later.

Like, enough of this spin, lies, and bullshit. It was a horrible contract in hindsight. We loved it at the time under 2 caveats. 1: We believed that if he was a ppg player surrounded by scrubs then he would be significantly better than that surrounded by the leafs core (like he was JUST in the first season). And 2: We didn't know our rfa's would use the contract as a comparable and force our rookie gm to hand out unprecedented dramatic overpayments to players that had literally ZERO leverage.

1.) at the time of the signing. JT was a 2 time hart finalist. Allstar. Gave away the art Ross by asking the league to take away his points.
He signed for 13.8% of the cap. Which is right around the expected 14% but he gave up 2 higher contracts. His agent publically stated he turned down 13 x7.

2.)Matthews signed for 15.1%. With less term. Better players sign for more %. It’s not hard. The amount of years between is not relevant. As the cap stayed flat for years

3.) he is overpaid now. That’s expected. It’s worse than expected because of the flat cap when people decided to shut the world down.

 

[JL17]

1.) at the time of the signing. JT was a 2 time hart finalist. Allstar. Gave away the art Ross by asking the league to take away his points.
He signed for 13.8% of the cap. Which is right around the expected 14% but he gave up 2 higher contracts. His agent publically stated he turned down 13 x7.

2.)Matthews signed for 15.1%. With less term. Better players sign for more %. It’s not hard. The amount of years between is not relevant. As the cap stayed flat for years

3.) he is overpaid now. That’s expected. It’s worse than expected because of the flat cap when people decided to shut the world down.

He was overpaid then also. Look at the list of names making less than him that have accomplished a lot more. He should have never been signed for more the 8.5 considering what he had accomplished and what his stats say.

 

[Legion34]

He was overpaid then also. Look at the list of names making less than him that have accomplished a lot more. He should have never been signed for more the 8.5 considering what he had accomplished and what his stats say.

This is silly. He was a 2 time hart finalist. He was an all star. You were expecting him to take 8.5? Stamkos had tax free market. He even said so himself.

There is no reason to suggest this number in a high tax city.

 

[JL17]

This is silly. He was a 2 time hart finalist. He was an all star. You were expecting him to take 8.5? Stamkos had tax free market. He even said so himself.

There is no reason to suggest this number in a high tax city.

Key word finalist not winner. Taylor Hall is a Hart trophy winner. Tavares never won anything in NYI. Wasn’t a PPG. You don’t offer less than PPG 11 million. Tavares isn’t a guy to lead a team. He a supporting player on a Stanley Cup winning team. If you’re paying a guy 11 mil he better kill penalties, put up 95+ points or score 40+ goals every year and be a game breaker if your a forward. Hes none of those things.

 

[All Mod Cons]

He's looking good at WC. Not sure what to make of it. Get him for 2 years @4.5 after next season.

Oh dear God, no.

 

[Confucius]

He's looking good at WC. Not sure what to make of it. Get him for 2 years @4.5 after next season.

Playing better for a different coach, who’d a thunk it. lol!

 

[Legion34]

Key word finalist not winner. Taylor Hall is a Hart trophy winner. Tavares never won anything in NYI. Wasn’t a PPG. You don’t offer less than PPG 11 million. Tavares isn’t a guy to lead a team. He a supporting player on a Stanley Cup winning team. If you’re paying a guy 11 mil he better kill penalties, put up 95+ points or score 40+ goals every year and be a game breaker if your a forward. Hes none of those things.

Ok.

None of this has anything to do with Tavares market value at the time of signing.

 

[myleafs]

2 pts in 7 playoff games

He should never wear the maple leafs sweater after next year

He is the worst piece of the core that gets spoonfed chances and opportunities but he still cant produce

 

[ruaware41]

Leaf fans are a joke and why the organization keeps failing. Leaf fans begged and begged the management to abandon the thing they complained about wanting for decades as soon as they saw a speck of success and started going absolutely bananas over every Ufa that might potentially be available like they were playing gm mode in an NHL video game and wanted the team to go back to what they claimed they wanted to get away from all these years. When people pushed back and criticized saying this was what we wanted the management to stop doing and now we already can't have the maturity to wait it out it was met with yolo type justifications of when a player like this is available you don't skip on him. Well you reap what you sow. Ofc management is going to do what it thinks will help its sales and at that time it was the Tavares jersey sales. This fanbase has no patience and no emotional maturity. We should have stuck with a rebuild rather than the "accelerated rebuild" copium.