Player Discussion How overpaid is Tavares

[Drytoast]

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Edit: not worth it, I'm an idiot for wasting my time arguing with certain posters in this thread. Keep hating on Tavares for *checks notes* producing exactly how he was projected to produce.

If Tavares was expected to be almost a ppg player on this team than that’s insane

He was a ppg player on the islanders where he played with bums. The expectations could’ve been ppg when the Ross was won with 100 points, not when it was won by 120-150 points.

Tavares’s first year he got outproduced by his own linemate. Second year on he wasn’t even ppg whilst playing with a 70+ point player

The expectation from the 11m dollar man was to be a top 15-20 player. He did that his first year (barely), then never even got close

 

[Goose]

If Tavares was expected to be almost a ppg player on this team than that’s insane

He was a ppg player on the islanders where he played with bums. The expectations could’ve been ppg when the Ross was won with 100 points, not when it was won by 120-150 points.

Tavares’s first year he got outproduced by his own linemate. Second year on he wasn’t even ppg whilst playing with a 70+ point player

The expectation from the 11m dollar man was to be a top 15-20 player. He did that his first year (barely), then never even got close

He's basically been PPG his whole career with a few variations. What are people like you talking about with these absurd semantics over a point or two? His second year you're talking about where HE WASN'T POINT PER GAME OMG WHAT A LOOOOOOOOSER he scored 60 points in 63 games lol. The pettiness of your guys' arguments is beyond absurd, like 3 points matters.

Also, please provide evidence of them saying they wanted a Top 15 player because of the price tag.

UFAs like him are overpaid, it's how it works. You don't compare him at 11m to a guy who re-ups as an RFA at 11m.

When the Leafs got him he had 621 points in 669 games, or .93 PPG. With Toronto, he has 405 in 425. for .95 PPG.

The. Leafs. Got. Exactly. What. They. Paid. For.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

He's basically been PPG his whole career with a few variations. What are people like you talking about with these absurd semantics over a point or two? His second year you're talking about where HE WASN'T POINT PER GAME OMG WHAT A LOOOOOOOOSER he scored 60 points in 63 games lol. The pettiness of your guys' arguments is beyond absurd, like 3 points matters.

Also, please provide evidence of them saying they wanted a Top 15 player because of the price tag.

UFAs like him are overpaid, it's how it works. You don't compare him at 11m to a guy who re-ups as an RFA at 11m.

When the Leafs got him he had 621 points in 669 games, or .93 PPG. With Toronto, he has 405 in 425. for .95 PPG.

The. Leafs. Got. Exactly. What. They. Paid. For.

I’m not talking semantics, I’m talking 10-15 points under where he should be. I brought up being a ppg as a reference, not the standard he should be held with. Tavares year in year out should’ve been a 95 point player considering the usage, price tag, and “talent” he has.

UFA’s aren’t always overpaid. Look at panarin, he’s better than Marner and he is a UFA, he didn’t re-up as an RFA. His worst year is 92 points, better than Tavares’s career HIGH. So no 11m dollar UFA’s aren’t always overpaid.

As for your second last paragraph, you don’t seem to understand the situation he went from to the situation he went to. He went from playing with 70 point Bailey and looking at his career stats Tavares drove his totals to 70, to 94 point Marner…his points went up by 4. 4 total point playing with one of the most elite young playmakers in the league. He went from a team that had 23% powerplay, to a 25% powerplay so a modest improvement. He went from having no support, to having a plethora of support.

Tavares went to an all around better situation and got worse. The expectation is to get better when you go to a better team, but I guess Tavares can stay the same, which considering the situation is worse.

You aren’t making the point you think you are.

 

[Goose]

I’m not talking semantics, I’m talking 10-15 points under where he should be. I brought up being a ppg as a reference, not the standard he should be held with. Tavares year in year out should’ve been a 95 point player considering the usage, price tag, and “talent” he has.

UFA’s aren’t always overpaid. Look at panarin, he’s better than Marner and he is a UFA, he didn’t re-up as an RFA. His worst year is 92 points, better than Tavares’s career HIGH. So no 11m dollar UFA’s aren’t always overpaid.

As for your second last paragraph, you don’t seem to understand the situation he went from to the situation he went to. He went from playing with 70 point Bailey and looking at his career stats Tavares drove his totals to 70, to 94 point Marner…his points went up by 4. 4 total point playing with one of the most elite young playmakers in the league. He went from a team that had 23% powerplay, to a 25% powerplay so a modest improvement. He went from having no support, to having a plethora of support.

Tavares went to an all around better situation and got worse. The expectation is to get better when you go to a better team, but I guess Tavares can stay the same, which considering the situation is worse.

You aren’t making the point you think you are.

Okay I’ve learned my lesson once again trying to discuss with people like you who arbitrarily make up what his production “should be” that represents a significant increase as he ages out of his prime on a more offensively-balanced team that doesn’t need him to produce as much.

 

[Aashir Mallik]

Okay I’ve learned my lesson once again trying to discuss with people like you who arbitrarily make up what his production “should be” that represents a significant increase as he ages out of his prime on a more offensively-balanced team that doesn’t need him to produce as much.

So I guess 32 year old panarin on NYR is just non-existent

His career prior to NYR:
322 GP 116G 204A 320P
81 point player

After joining the NYR:
337GP 138G 297A 435P
106 point player

I didn't make anything up, panarin is a 106 point player, but tavares is a center so I dropped his points but if you'd like then I'll make that is the bar for UFA signings making over 11. Tavares is an albatross contract in that case. Would this be a better statement then?

those years from NYR are panarins 28-32 years. When did tavares come here??? 28 year old, he is 1 year older and producing under 75% of panarin

moreover your last statement makes no sense, we don't need him to produce as much?? And you talk about not needing him to produce as much, but LOOK where that has got us, 5 straight first round exits (though montreal was weird) and one second round exit. As for regular season?, 1 "fake" division title and 0 president trophies.

Are we even talking about the same team? More offensively balanced, from 18-19 onwards we've been oozing depth scoring away because we paid these guys so much and tavares's play has continued to drop more and more with each year.

Bring up just point per game and ignoring everything doesn't make the point you think you are. It just ignores all context

 

[WillyC]

just a reminder,… John Tavares was a Hart Trophy finalist.. twice in the 3 years before he came to Toronto.

that doesn’t happen often as an UFA… so yeah, it was gonna be $11-13 million.

 

[hotpaws]

just a reminder,… John Tavares was a Hart Trophy finalist.. twice in the 3 years before he came to Toronto.

that doesn’t happen often as an UFA… so yeah, it was gonna be $11-13 million.

did the Hart Trophy winners get 14-16m ?

 

[tmlms13]

Everyone knew that this contract was going to be bad at the end, so this isn't exactly a revelation however 2 things happened that they didn't expect

1. In Years 1 - 4 there would have been several round wins so no one would give a crap
2. The cap would be in the mid 90's, covid stumped any increase in HRR

 

[Arzak]

So I guess 32 year old panarin on NYR is just non-existent

His career prior to NYR:
322 GP 116G 204A 320P
81 point player

After joining the NYR:
337GP 138G 297A 435P
106 point player

I didn't make anything up, panarin is a 106 point player, but tavares is a center so I dropped his points but if you'd like then I'll make that is the bar for UFA signings making over 11. Tavares is an albatross contract in that case. Would this be a better statement then?

those years from NYR are panarins 28-32 years. When did tavares come here??? 28 year old, he is 1 year older and producing under 75% of panarin

moreover your last statement makes no sense, we don't need him to produce as much?? And you talk about not needing him to produce as much, but LOOK where that has got us, 5 straight first round exits (though montreal was weird) and one second round exit. As for regular season?, 1 "fake" division title and 0 president trophies.

Are we even talking about the same team? More offensively balanced, from 18-19 onwards we've been oozing depth scoring away because we paid these guys so much and tavares's play has continued to drop more and more with each year.

Bring up just point per game and ignoring everything doesn't make the point you think you are. It just ignores all context

IMO he has a point about usage. Tavares is playing 2C here and since we have more than 1 star, there is no need for JT to stay on PP for 2 min.

I can see that argument, not sure if it equals to load of points, but if you're a coach ( ok not a Keefe) and you need your team to score, it has to be Matthews you send out there for offensive face-off.

 

[notDatsyuk]

just a reminder,… John Tavares was a Hart Trophy finalist.. twice in the 3 years before he came to Toronto.

that doesn’t happen often as an UFA… so yeah, it was gonna be $11-13 million.

Which is fine - but we should not have been the team to give it to him.

 

[Anthrax442]

Maybe he is not overpaid?

 

[WillyC]

8 points in his last 3 games… the Tavares whiners, who practically think JT doesn’t even belong in the NHL anymore.

A little perspective for them.

 

[RunItBackAgain]

8 points in his last 3 games… the Tavares whiners, who practically think JT doesn’t even belong in the NHL anymore.

A little perspective for them.

He clearly needed a wake up call. Glad he decided to stop hitting snooze and get off his ass finally. Let’s see if he can do it when it matters though cause we’ve seen him have small bursts like this and then fade into oblivion many times.

 

[crump]

Guy gets maligned for the money he signed for as a UFA. You can argue that money could have gone to a top 2 defensemen. Not his fault.

His play has only dropped a bit, he might have lost step, but at this age and point in his contract he’s still playing at top 6 level.

Who's goal finally got this group to a second round of playoffs for the first time in 19 years? Not Joe Thornton, not Patrick Marleau, not Jason Spezza, none of the dead weight that were brought in on at trade deadlines.

He’s looking like he's ramping up to playoff form again. I feel better with him in the lineup than without him.

 

[WillyC]

Besides the OT goal that finally moved us past the first round… it’s the year before, down by one, last minute of the second period and JT scores 2 goals to put us up going into the third with Tampa on the brink of elimination.

Then those 2 penalties happened.

 

[Martin Skoula]

So I guess 32 year old panarin on NYR is just non-existent

His career prior to NYR:
322 GP 116G 204A 320P
81 point player

After joining the NYR:
337GP 138G 297A 435P
106 point player

I didn't make anything up, panarin is a 106 point player, but tavares is a center so I dropped his points but if you'd like then I'll make that is the bar for UFA signings making over 11. Tavares is an albatross contract in that case. Would this be a better statement then?

those years from NYR are panarins 28-32 years. When did tavares come here??? 28 year old, he is 1 year older and producing under 75% of panarin

moreover your last statement makes no sense, we don't need him to produce as much?? And you talk about not needing him to produce as much, but LOOK where that has got us, 5 straight first round exits (though montreal was weird) and one second round exit. As for regular season?, 1 "fake" division title and 0 president trophies.

Are we even talking about the same team? More offensively balanced, from 18-19 onwards we've been oozing depth scoring away because we paid these guys so much and tavares's play has continued to drop more and more with each year.

Bring up just point per game and ignoring everything doesn't make the point you think you are. It just ignores all context

Panarin is the transition puck carrier on his line at ES on the PP, Tavares has had an elite transition player on his RW his entire time here and is a netfront guy on the PP. You could have Tavares carry the puck instead of Marner/Nylander and pick up 10-15 more secondary assists a year but you’re just taking them from the RW and making the team worse.

Don’t get me wrong Panarin is a better offensive threat overall but some % of the point gap is a systems thing.

If you want your big name UFA to put up numbers that match the contract you better have them pencilled in as the guy that touches the puck the most often on the team by a big margin, otherwise you’re going to be disappointed 99% of the time regardless of how good the player actually is.

 

[Schennanigans]

What’s funny is if he had a monster playoffs people would quickly forget about him being overpaid.

 

[hamzarocks]

just a reminder,… John Tavares was a Hart Trophy finalist.. twice in the 3 years before he came to Toronto.

that doesn’t happen often as an UFA… so yeah, it was gonna be $11-13 million.

He was 2 time finalist in 13 and 15, he came to toronto in 18

His 16-18 years were straight disapointing. Sign for his demise, to bad we had Dubas who got tricked into believing he was an elite player.

 

[Arzak]

View attachment 838899

Ovi with 24 in 66 is considered basically retired.

 

[BertCorbeau]

He was 2 time finalist in 13 and 15, he came to toronto in 18

His 16-18 years were straight disapointing. Sign for his demise, to bad we had Dubas who got tricked into believing he was an elite player.

In 17/18 he had 37 goals and 84 points.. second most productive year of his career.

 

[hamzarocks]

In 17/18 he had 37 goals and 84 points.. second most productive year of his career.

That was 1 good year and 2 poor ones before that.

People here said we didnt expect a top 15 player in the league.

That means we either expected he was declining hard and still over paid or people ae now lying about their initial expectations for him when he came here.

Hes been a top 20 player only in his first season of the deal, after that hes fallen to 30-50th range which is very disapointing play/production

 

[WillyC]

10 points in his last 4 games… that pass to McMann tonight must be infuriating to the Tavares whiners.

 

[WillyC]

One more thing for the usual suspects… did you all notice how JT was played against McDavid and Drai’s line all night?

That awesome pass to Bobby McMann though… that’s the hard pill.

 

[Erndog]

JT has been really good lately no doubt.

He had that awful ~12 game stretch or so but honestly, other than that, he's been largely the same for the other ~55 games he has played. Certainly not much of a material decline.

It was really that 1 month that's overshadowed lot of what he's done here.