How much would you like to have your team spending on a starting goaltender?

[bert]

Tough to answer in a blanket statement. Id like them to be making next to nothing but ill gladly pay Vasilevskiy 9 million.

 

[Coffee]

5-6 on starter, 1-2 on backup

I think the Leafs and Oilers have it the other way around

 

[Super Cake]

3 million.

But i may be a bit biased considering my team just won a cup with Aiden Hill in net.

Although i have never been a big fan of giving goalies money.

I do believe that if you have a good forwards, defense and a good system in place, then the goalie really does not matter that much.

 

[Mike C]

Tough to answer in a blanket statement. Id like them to be making next to nothing but ill gladly pay Vasilevskiy 9 million.

The value of anything in life is what someone is willing to pay for it.

I've always believed that a goalie and a QB are the most important players on a team. I've also always believed their backups are the 2nd most important

 

[jetsforever]

To keep Hellebuyck I'd probably go up to $10M
For some average starter, around $5-6M

 

[trick9]

ELC. Wouldn't like to spend a high pick to acquire him, either.

But realistically, not over 10% of the cap, even if he's elite. I would hope for around ~6-7%.

 

[BruinsFan37]

To re-sign my existing starter (especially if I was happy with him) -- 7 mil, maybe 8 depending upon the market.

To bring in somebody new as a UFA who hasn't played with the team before -- 5 mil.

Those are maxes of course, hopefully you can pay less and regardless, the goalie tandem shouldn't exceed 9 mil combined. Also if your backup is on ELC and is ready to become the starter when the current starter can't cut it anymore (wash, repeat) that's also the ideal situation.

 

[bobholly39]

I personally never had an issue paying Price 10.5M on the habs. The issues i had were:

- health/injuries. Question marks
- on the back end of contract when older, would his play trail off a lot?

So.....it depends? Impossible to answer without a specific goalie in mind. Some are worth spending a ton of cash on, and some, not so much

 

[PuckG]

Anything except 5mil to Jack Campbell.

 

[NyQuil]

Is that really so? If Prime Hasek gets 3M, you know that he is not happy. That would likely backfire.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/dominik-hasek-joins-senators-1.495892

2 million plus an option year for 3 million.

Put up a 2.09 and a .925 in the offence-heavy 2005-2006 season until his injury.

 

[5minutemajor]

RBs are the best comparison

There’s about 5 really good ones, and everyone else makes due with platoons

I brought the RB in my own OP. But seeing the kicker arguments by JagerDice, I am compelled to buy in that concept more.

 

[5minutemajor]

To keep Hellebuyck I'd probably go up to $10M
For some average starter, around $5-6M

Helle is good. But man, you jets have him way too high. Because you want to promote a high trade value. Not happening.

 

[MikeyMike01]

I brought the RB in my own OP. But seeing the kicker arguments by JagerDice, I am compelled to buy in that concept more.

Kickers are a terrible comparison.

Kickers are among the cheapest players on the team. You don’t see starting goalies making $1-2M after ELCs.

NFL teams dump very good kickers just to save a little money. You won’t see the Rangers dump Shesterkin or the Islanders dump Sorokin just to save $2M in cap space.

Kickers are more like 4th line centers.

 

[jetsforever]

Helle is good. But man, you jets have him way too high. Because you want to promote a high trade value. Not happening.

I'm not promoting anything - pretty sure no opposing GMs are reading this thread
It's because elite goalies are so hard to get (and especially to convince to come to Winnipeg) and we suffered through Pavelec for too long so I'd overpay him to get him to stay and build around that.

 

[5minutemajor]

I'm not promoting anything - pretty sure no opposing GMs are reading this thread
It's because elite goalies are so hard to get (and especially to convince to come to Winnipeg) and we suffered through Pavelec for too long so I'd overpay him to get him to stay and build around that.

I have seen Hellebuyck play plenty. Not really sure what is so elite. Definitely not that much better than a random starter. He has the reputation, but especially in the playoffs (since 2018) I have not been convinced at all. I am not saying he is bad. But worth 10 mil? No way! More like 5-6.

 

[Lou Bloom]

Depends on the goaltender. If I had the next Carey Price ready to sign a long term extension in his early to mid 20s I'd be willing to pay a ton. The truly elite goaltenders that are consistently top 10 year to year are worth locking up in their primes.

The problem with goaltender's value is after the few elite goalies there's too much variance year to year and too many goalies that deal with injuries or who's play falls off quickly out of nowhere.

Ville Husso - finished 7th in Vezina voting in 2021-2022 with a .919 SV% and that was smacked between 2020-2021 where he put up a .893 SV% in a backup role and 2022-2023 where he put up .896 SV% this year.

Jakob Markstrom - 2021 - .904 SV%, 2022 - .922 SV% (2nd in Vezina voting), 2023 - .892 SV%.

Freddie Anderson - 2021 - .895 SV%, 2022 - .922 SV%, 2023 - .903 SV%

You also have goalies like John Gibson and Matt Murray, who's best seasons were before turning 26 and quickly turned into below average or worse goalies.

Unless you have an elite goaltender in the middle of their prime (and even that isn't a guarantee considering what happened to Gibson), then you're probably better off going cheap on goaltender and spending your cap in areas where there's much more cost certainty and way less risk.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Let me describe a position to you.

There is one per team. This position factors into most of the points a team scores every game.

The natural assumption would be ‘wow, that must be a very valuable position, they must be very well paid’.

Nope. Its the NFL kicker.

And they arent paid very well because the gap between the very best on the market and the baseline competence a team needs to succeed is very small.

This is the same for goalies. Only a moronic front office would pay through the nose for a .930+ goalie when they could better leverage that money towards other positions and pay much less for a .915 goalie that is good enough to win.

The gap between elite goalies and ‘good enough’ goalies is smaller than any other position in hockey.

Go through the last 40 goalies to win the cup tell me How many goalies were elite VS good enough?

Let me spoil that for you a"good enough" goalie wins on average about once a decade between 1980-2023 and doesn't really start happening until 97 or 98, then not again until 2010, you might say Cam Ward in 2006 but he won playoff MVP you do that you are more than "good enough"

About 90% of the time you need an elite goalie

 

[Spilot23]

On the Avs : Not more than 5M$ even 4M$ I think. The last couple years we've had Grubauer, Kuemper and now Georgiev. All of them having Vezina numbers going around .920 SV%. Hell we even won a cup with a terrible Kuemper in the playoffs (Kudos to the great save he made on Kuch though in game 6).

I would much rather pay another dman or top 6 forward with that extra 4-5M$ it would cost instead of having an elite goalie making that money. Pay a dman that can also play goalie

 

[Coffee]

I’m well aware that goalies are overvalued within the NHL and hockey culture, Im not sure I needed a video to prove it.

You havent actually presented any arguments to counter my position that the gap between elite and good enough goaltending is insufficient to warrant spending large sums on goaltenders.

There’s a reason few goaltenders are paid over 8mil for more than 5 years and damn near every team that goes beyond those bounds regrets it.

How bout now ?

Also mods, im bumping cause of Swayman and Igor situation

 

[biturbo19]

I mean, as little as possible, while still providing quality starting goaltender performance, ideally. So in this case...i'd rather be spending $3M on a starting goalie than $6 or 10M.

I don't know that i really have a "maximum" though. I'd tend to look at it more as, what are you spending on your goaltending duo, collectively? Where i kind of draw the line at ~$10M combined. And again, ideally you're spending quite a bit less than that.

 

[byrath]

Voted 10M maximum, but really I'd go up to 12M if I've got a vezina contender with no particular injury concerns

 

[Golden_Jet]

10%-12% of cap on both.

 

[JaegerDice]

How bout now ?

Also mods, im bumping cause of Swayman and Igor situation

I still feel the same. I'm happy for fans of the Panthers that Bob played well and they were able to win a cup with that contract. It was a gamble that paid off, and for fans of a team, that's all that matters.

That said, the wild variance in Bob's play throughout that contract (his whole career, really) speaks to why I'm not comfortable giving big money and term to goalies. I think you can win just as well with a guy that gives you .915-920 every year as you can a guy that gives you swings between .900 and .930+, the former guy is probably less expensive.

As far as the $6 million number I was set on, that will obviously have to change if the cap spikes like many seem to predict it will. So whatever the commensurate cap percentage in the new cap reality matches around what 6 million was over the last 10 years or so (on average).

I think both BOS and NYR should be careful with how much they pay their goalies.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I want a goalie like Vasi, who was developed by my organization. I’d have no problem paying him 9+ million bucks. Absolutely 0 qualms about it.

 

[Coffee]

I still feel the same. I'm happy for fans of the Panthers that Bob played well and they were able to win a cup with that contract. It was a gamble that paid off, and for fans of a team, that's all that matters.

That said, the wild variance in Bob's play throughout that contract (his whole career, really) speaks to why I'm not comfortable giving big money and term to goalies. I think you can win just as well with a guy that gives you .915-920 every year as you can a guy that gives you swings between .900 and .930+, the former guy is probably less expensive.

As far as the $6 million number I was set on, that will obviously have to change if the cap spikes like many seem to predict it will. So whatever the commensurate cap percentage in the new cap reality matches around what 6 million was over the last 10 years or so (on average).

I think both BOS and NYR should be careful with how much they pay their goalies.

Goalies are the backbone of the NHL, say it.