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How Much Better Than Nylander Is Marner?

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Salary-wise, how superior is he?

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ToneDog said:
This is definitely not the same Nylander that we saw after he signed. Refreshing to see the kid take it up to the next level and doing so well.
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Or before he signed for that matter. There were times in the first few games here I thought I was watching a power forward. He still needs to work on his shot accuracy to reach the highest levels IMO.
 
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kb said:
Only one is showing that currently. Or is this a Liljegren type "I see things the way I want to see things" assessment again?
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last I checked Marner has scored 80+ points multiple times. Nylander has yet to do so? So who’s really messing up assessments. Say what you want about his playoff performances they have been underwhelming. But Marner is an elite winger. Nylander also is an elite winger who is finally finding his game. It’s nice as an organization to have two elite wing players.

not everyone starts hot. MacKinnon isnt in top 50 scoring currently to start the year either. Doesn’t negate his ability
 
Canadian Finn said:
poor mitchy had too much pressure?

rich kid. gets spoiled. silver spoon his entire life...

but that's too much pressure?
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He wssn't a rich kid. And having an overbearing parent is a real issue.

They went completely bankrupt paying for Mitch to make it and it was an insane amount of pressure.

Is it a first world problem? Yes.

But it doesn't take away from the fact his parents treated him like a meal ticket. Not unlike child actors who have an incredibly difficult time.
 
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francis246 said:
last I checked Marner has scored 80+ points multiple times. Nylander has yet to do so? So who’s really messing up assessments. Say what you want about his playoff performances they have been underwhelming. But Marner is an elite winger. Nylander also is an elite winger who is finally finding his game. It’s nice as an organization to have two elite wing players.

not everyone starts hot. MacKinnon isnt in top 50 scoring currently to start the year either. Doesn’t negate his ability
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Marner has scored 80+ points once.

He has paced for 80+ points the past two years but injuries and Covid negated that so we will never know.
 
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francis246 said:
last I checked Marner has scored 80+ points multiple times. Nylander has yet to do so? So who’s really messing up assessments. Say what you want about his playoff performances they have been underwhelming. But Marner is an elite winger. Nylander also is an elite winger who is finally finding his game. It’s nice as an organization to have two elite wing players.

not everyone starts hot. MacKinnon isnt in top 50 scoring currently to start the year either. Doesn’t negate his ability
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I'm curious the amount of 80+points scorers who play under 17 minutes a game. I think if Nylander had Marner's deployment over the past two seasons he probably has atleast one 80 point season under his belt. Through 3 games he's averaging 19:21 minutes per game. I think if Keefe keeps his minutes around there and JT hasn't fallen off a cliff then he should be very close to a PPG. Once Matthews comes back I can see Keefe going back to his old ways giving the Matthews line 21+minutes and giving the JT line about 16.
 
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Jojalu said:
Marner has scored 80+ points once.

He has paced for 80+ points the past two years but injuries and Covid negated that so we will never know.
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fair but we know both are special, Idk why it really has to be one is better than the other. We can appreciate how lucky we are to have both who are super talented. I don’t know how we get Willy more minutes but we def need to
 
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Willchel Marlynder said:
I'm curious the amount of 80+points scorers who play under 17 minutes a game. I think if Nylander had Marner's deployment over the past two seasons he probably has atleast one 80 point season under his belt. Through 3 games he's averaging 19:21 minutes per game. I think if Keefe keeps his minutes around there and JT hasn't fallen off a cliff then he should be very close to a PPG. Once Matthews comes back I can see Keefe going back to his old ways giving the Matthews line 21+minutes and giving the JT line about 16.
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I think 19 minutes for Marner and 18 for Nylander should suffice. We need Nylander up from 16 minutes a night. I’d even toss the 3 out there together every now and then just because
 
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Willchel Marlynder said:
I'm curious the amount of 80+points scorers who play under 17 minutes a game. I think if Nylander had Marner's deployment over the past two seasons he probably has atleast one 80 point season under his belt. Through 3 games he's averaging 19:21 minutes per game.
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Nylander takes HIMSELF off early. It's him.
It's not Keefe.
 
Willchel Marlynder said:
I'm curious the amount of 80+points scorers who play under 17 minutes a game. I think if Nylander had Marner's deployment over the past two seasons he probably has atleast one 80 point season under his belt. Through 3 games he's averaging 19:21 minutes per game. I think if Keefe keeps his minutes around there and JT hasn't fallen off a cliff then he should be very close to a PPG. Once Matthews comes back I can see Keefe going back to his old ways giving the Matthews line 21+minutes and giving the JT line about 16.
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Easy to do the math.
It works out to 62 points and 64 points for each respective year, annualized to 82 games
 
Notsince67 said:
Easy to do the math.
It works out to 62 points and 64 points for each respective year, annualized to 82 games
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That won't tell the whole story either.

Mitch is putting in those PK minutes too, the most fatiguing minutes to play in hockey.

I'm not convinced Nylander's production will skyrocket given that same usage. Playing with Matthews would certainly help it too, but it's not going to propel him into that next level of production.
 
IPS said:
That won't tell the whole story either.

Mitch is putting in those PK minutes too, the most fatiguing minutes to play in hockey.

I'm not convinced Nylander's production will skyrocket given that same usage. Playing with Matthews would certainly help it too, but it's not going to propel him into that next level of production.
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Willy could improve his production as he has already but point a game players arent too common. I'm not sure what everyones problem is though. Its a boatload of points
 
NHL contracts are a point based thing now for many many years .. every year they get further afar from raw skills .. raw skills Willy is better player and always has been .. point wise (creativity) Mitch gets more points and more AAV .. it is rather elementary
 
HamiltonNHL said:
Nylander takes HIMSELF off early. It's him.
It's not Keefe.
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Agreed, last season Nylander went off early every now and then, but JT ice time was around 18 minutes and Nylander was under 17. Nylander isn't taking himself off for a minute on average. He just wasn't getting as much ice time. He's up to 19 minutes now which is around where he should be.


Notsince67 said:
Easy to do the math.
It works out to 62 points and 64 points for each respective year, annualized to 82 games
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No that's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about playing with Matthews for 20+ minutes a night. He was on pace for 71points playing a chunk of the season with Matthews two years ago so your Math is a bit off.
 
francis246 said:
last I checked Marner has scored 80+ points multiple times. Nylander has yet to do so? So who’s really messing up assessments. Say what you want about his playoff performances they have been underwhelming. But Marner is an elite winger. Nylander also is an elite winger who is finally finding his game. It’s nice as an organization to have two elite wing players.

not everyone starts hot. MacKinnon isnt in top 50 scoring currently to start the year either. Doesn’t negate his ability
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Dude, pretty hard for Mack to get a point when he is not even playing due to COVID
 
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Jojalu said:
Marner has scored 80+ points once.

He has paced for 80+ points the past two years but injuries and Covid negated that so we will never know.
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I think anyone arguing in good faith should be willing to concede that Marner is very likely going to be a perennial 90+ point player considering in the last 3 seasons he's either had or been on pace for 93+ points. That's also despite having less pp points than most of the other elite point producers because of his usage like in the Tavares year or the Leafs having a surprisingly mediocre pp last year and I expect that to change in the future.

Nylander has a better shot, but Marner's vision and creativity are clearly on a different level and I think he is pretty clearly the better offensive player.
 
Honest M said:
Nylander is clearly better, he can put a line on his back and be a threat and produce. Marner is spoon fed, getting pp time and the best available c and a ridiculous contract.

I guess Marner have a high market value on the leafs cause of home grown talent and a big group of Fans, but that doesn't translate to effectivity on the ice.
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Based on what? We've seen what happens when they both play with JT, even if you account for Marners extra toi during his JT season compared to nylander last season, nylander doesnt come close to Marners production at even strength. Must just be a coincidence that Matthew's was on pace for 65 playing with marner last year and JT had 47 playing with Marner.
 
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I've been a huge Willy hater.

Still don't like the way his contract played out and how he came back from holding out completely out of shape.

That being said.... credit where due. He seems to be consistently putting in the work to improve his game every off season. Dude got strong and it's starting to shows in his game.

Marner doesn't seem to be improving his game. That's the major difference.

I've been gaining respect for Willy. He's really starting to harness the strength he's built and you have to credit him for it. Have nothing bad to say about him currently.
 
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Matthews are being better year by year . Tavares worse. Nylander better. Marner been Marner.

I dont know if the gap between Tavares regression and Matthews and Nylanders progress would be enough to elevate Nylanders numbers to around 90. But 80 40G 40A should be possible. Marner would probably not get 90+ with Tavares. If Marner got 30G 60A , i still take Nylanders 10 extra goals.

Who cares playoff is the challange to beat.
 
I don't know how much better salary-wise, but I do know that if it's late in a close playoff game I'd rather have Willy on the ice than Mitch.

Marner seems to fold under pressure (I still have nightmares of that long distance over-the-glass penalty he took last year on the PK) while Nylander seems unfazed by any situation the team is in. I think just mentally tougher.
 
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