Salary Cap: How much AAV are you willing to give Tyson Barrie on a 7-8 year extension?

[Joey Hoser]

Give me a break. A one year rental, it’s a brutal trade then.

Yeah, you're right. Who gives a shit about trying to win? Long term contracts is all we want.

 

[moon111]

I don't have a problem with Marner not being able to score goals like some Leaf greats such as Daniel Marois or Tyson Barrie having a horrible defensive side to his game...
...but pay them accordingly. Can you play another team's best players in the playoffs and come out ahead? I'm not really down on sacrificing and paying top dollar at the
same time. As for the trade that landed him here, think Kadri was a bit "fool me once your fault, fool me twice, my fault'. He had to go, and this was the best return on investment.

 

[DarkKnight]

Nope.

The difference between Kadri and Kerfoot in the 3 spot for 3 years isnt bigger than 1m dollars, an extra year of Kerfoot, and a year of Barrie at 2.75.

Honestly, if you can talk yourself into one year of Barrie and still think it’s a good trade, you need to ask yourself about your bias coming into any Dubas move.

Hey, I’ve said since the trade we re-sign him, it’s a good deal. Just assume we do, if he walks I’m not talking myself into that scenario, it stinks.

 

[DarkKnight]

Yeah, you're right. Who gives a **** about trying to win? Long term contracts is all we want.

Okay.

 

[Nithoniniel]

Us:
1 year of Barrie
4 years of Kerfoot

Them:
3 years of Kadri

Barrie is a better player than Kadri. So the comparison would be between 4 years of Kerfoot and maybe 1½ years of Kadri.

I still think we come out on top.

 

[Joey Hoser]

Winning the cup this season would be the only thing that would make the trade okay IF the intention was to let Barrie walk after one season.

Because Kadri gave us a better chance to win?

 

[Nithoniniel]

It's fun to go back and read old trade proposals based on Barrie and Kadri. Most of them are worse for us and the Avs fans still say they are getting fleeced.

 

[MyBudJT]

Because Kadri gave us a better chance to win?

Good point by I guess, but I think so.

Kerfoot is a downgrade on Kadri.

 

[The Iceman]

Us:
1 year of Barrie
4 years of Kerfoot

Them:
3 years of Kadri

Barrie is a better player than Kadri. So the comparison would be between 4 years of Kerfoot and maybe 1½ years of Kadri.

I still think we come out on top.

1 year of Barrie @ $2.75 which allows us to do other things.
Awesome value, awesome trade. Addressed both teams needs

 

[Legion34]

Honestly, if you can talk yourself into one year of Barrie and still think it’s a good trade, you need to ask yourself about your bias coming into any Dubas move.

Hey, I’ve said since the trade we re-sign him, it’s a good deal. Just assume we do, if he walks I’m not talking myself into that scenario, it stinks.

One for one I agree. But a 25 year old 45 pt C at 3.5 x 4 is still value.

Kadri is 29 and can’t play 3 C.

 

[Dekes For Days]

The funny thing is, so many fans will whine and complain and call the GM a failure if he doesn't get somebody good at the deadline, at outrageous costs for 20 games and a playoffs.
Those same people will turn around and claim that getting a guy like Barrie for a full year or Muzzin for a year and a half (2 playoff runs) is a waste if they don't sign long-term.

Makes no sense.

 

[kb]

The funny thing is, so many fans will whine and complain and call the GM a failure if he doesn't get somebody good at the deadline, at outrageous costs for 20 games and a playoffs.
Those same people will turn around and claim that getting a guy like Barrie for a full year or Muzzin for a year and a half (2 playoff runs) is a waste if they don't sign long-term.

Makes no sense.

It makes perfect sense if the motive is to shit on the GM at every turn.

 

[Bomber0104]

One for one I agree. But a 25 year old 45 pt C at 3.5 x 4 is still value.

Kadri is 29 and can’t play 3 C.

Why not?

He's playing second line centre for the Avs..

 

[Sypher04]

Good point by I guess, but I think so.

Kerfoot is a downgrade on Kadri.

Sure, in a vacuum, but in the context of our team is he though?

3rd line center Kadri wasn't nearly as effective as 2nd line center Kadri was.
And 2nd line center Kadri kinda stunk for the first half of 2017-18 as well tbh.

If memory serves, Kadri and Kerfoot were only separated by like 1 goal and 2 points last season, production wise, though I think Kadri played a handful less games. Defensively, there seems to be a lot of conflicting reports out there, but most I've seen say he's at least average defensively, which is honestly all Kadri was. Kadri is the more physical, but he also took bad penalties and had a habit of getting himself suspended for stupid, dirty hits. Naz was a bit bigger, Kerfoot is 3 years younger. Kadri developed into a player with a shooting mentality, more than playmaking. Our 3rd line projects to probably have 2 of Kapanen, Johnsson, Mikheyev, all shooters. Kerfoot, being a player who is heavily pass-first, is a better fit with this group of wingers, in theory.

 

[qqaz]

Why not?

He's playing second line centre for the Avs..

We just tried him as a #3C, and he wasn't that good in that role. He's a better #2 than he is when playing lower in the lineup. He was wasted as the #3.

Not to mention he was clearly a liability in the playoffs. I don't remember Kerfoot getting suspended for giving a crosscheck to the head.

 

[Bomber0104]

We just tried him as a #3C, and he wasn't that good in that role. He's a better #2 than he is when playing lower in the lineup. He was wasted as the #3.

Not to mention he was clearly a liability in the playoffs. I don't remember Kerfoot getting suspended for giving a crosscheck to the head.

Oh so you mean he's too good to be a #3 centre...I didn't realize that's what was meant.

I agree.

But how exactly is that a problem?

Isn't that what most would call having "good depth"? Isn't that what everyone was raving about when we initially signed Tavares?

 

[4thline]

Honestly, if you can talk yourself into one year of Barrie and still think it’s a good trade, you need to ask yourself about your bias coming into any Dubas move.

Hey, I’ve said since the trade we re-sign him, it’s a good deal. Just assume we do, if he walks I’m not talking myself into that scenario, it stinks.

Honestly, if your counter "argument" is "if you dont agree with me you're biased" you need to ask yourself if you're equipped to be a part of the discussion.

Whether you look at things in terms of net value or yearly surplus/deficit we at worst break even.

 

[yubbers]

it seems like you're reaching quite a bit. Not playing a bad hockey player in Matt Martin didn't force Kadri into getting himself suspended two years in a row. The problem here is you've already drawn your conclusion that Dubas sucks at everything, and you're trying to make the evidence fit around that view, even if it doesn't really work

No. I lost my shit when they sat Martin. That wasn't all Dubas technically. I'm not the one that repeated the exact same mistake again. That was him. And if course the same result was yielded. I can give you a million reasons why Dubas is awful. I don't come to that conclusion by myself. They're his actions or inactions. Why can I foresee the future when the guy getting paid millions can't? Oh yeah.... cause like most advanced stat heads.... They forget this game is still a war. And you need soldiers.

 

[Bomber0104]

Honestly, if your counter "argument" is "if you dont agree with me you're biased" you need to ask yourself if you're equipped to be a part of the discussion.

Whether you look at things in terms of net value or yearly surplus/deficit we at worst break even.

If we do nothing this year and Barrie walks then we lose.

Congrats Dubas, you just traded Kadri for Kerfoot and some loose change.

 

[Sypher04]

No. I lost my **** when they sat Martin. That wasn't all Dubas technically. I'm not the one that repeated the exact same mistake again. That was him. And if course the same result was yielded. I can give you a million reasons why Dubas is awful. I don't come to that conclusion by myself. They're his actions or inactions. Why can I foresee the future when the guy getting paid millions can't? Oh yeah.... cause like most advanced stat heads.... They forget this game is still a war. And you need soldiers.

Sitting Martin wasn't a mistake. Nor was opting to let him walk, especially given that he signed for 2.5mx4 with the Isles. Even if we liked him back, that's waaay too rich for our blood for a fringe 4th liner, at best.

 

[4thline]

If we do nothing this year and Barrie walks then we lose.

Congrats Dubas, you just traded Kadri for Kerfoot and some loose change.

Whether in terms of net value or yearly surplus/deficit we at worst breakeven.

Years 1 and 4 we win huge, years 2-3 we potentially lose slightly. We also potentially win those as Kerfoot peaks and Kadri maybe declines.

Time machining to next summer to erase the massive value of Barrie at 2.75 is asinine even for you

 

[qqaz]

Oh so you mean he's too good to be a #3 centre...I didn't realize that's what was meant.

I agree.

But how exactly is that a problem?

Isn't that what most would call having "good depth"? Isn't that what everyone was raving about when we initially signed Tavares?

I sure did, ya. I was singing Kadri's praises leading up to the Boston series. I said he would be the difference maker for us, and expose Charlie Coyle as a weak spot for the Bruins. Yes, that depth has value. But Kadri proved that he isn't the right guy for our #3C job. He's overqualified, under performed, and ultimately wasn't able to restrain himself from a suspension.

Depth is great. I'd rather have Kadri than not have him. But also important is slot allocation. Kerfoot fits the job description better. He's cheaper, younger, and (now) under longer team control. He's a lower event player, but he should fit the role.

Kadri wasn't a "problem" being an overqualified #3C. But he was a luxury that we didn't need, and he turned himself into a problem when he got suspended.

Getting Kerfoot with a Barrie on top was a brilliant trade.

 

[qqaz]

If we do nothing this year and Barrie walks then we lose.

Congrats Dubas, you just traded Kadri for Kerfoot and some loose change.

... And a full season of a top pairing defenceman when that was our biggest weakness going into a cup chasing season.

No, he didn't just trade Kadri for Kerfoot and loose change. And even if that is potentially all we have after this season, your preemptively complaining about something that needs to satisfy two massive caveats before even being arguably true?

 

[Bomber0104]

Whether in terms of net value or yearly surplus/deficit we at worst breakeven.

Years 1 and 4 we win huge, years 2-3 we potentially lose slightly. We also potentially win those as Kerfoot peaks and Kadri maybe declines.

Time machining to next summer to erase the massive value of Barrie at 2.75 is asinine even for you

If we do nothing this year and Barrie tests UFA and walks, all that "value" meant nothing.

 

[Busher Jackson]

Wrong. Ceci is a UFA. So $21 million. Muzzin is UFA too.

They have many options. And it's not like there won't be more movement.

Cap Friendly numbers. They have $26 mil for the 20-21 season without Marner signed and 11 signed. Assuming Marner gets $10 mil. that makes 12 signed and 16 mil cap space. Easy to check the numbers.