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RangersFan
Registered User
The 11-12 team was so amazing in retrospect, chemistry and teamwork wise. For a team of that talent to finish 1st is a testament to Torts.
HatTrick Swayze
Just Be Nice
I will start by saying that it is still too early to bash AV or his system too much. The start has been a trainwreck but it was always gonna take time to implement big changes like man coverage and trying to play a puck possession game.
However, in this case of respecting what Torts did, questioning the roster's ability to play up tempo, wondering what defensive trade offs would be made, and most importantly fearing what a lack of accountability would do to this group - sometimes foresight is 20/20 too. Several people were adamantly against the Torts scapegoating that went on all spring. Not everyone had the pitchforks out.
LORDE
I am Lorde, YA YA YA
Nac Mac Feegle
wee & free
- Jun 10, 2011
- 35,819
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I don't think any of them want Torts back, to be honest. Why would they?
Let's face it, there is a massive shortage in the NHL of quality players right now. Even if the entire team stinks for the whole year, those guys will still get their shiny new contracts next summer.
In the meantime, the guys get paid to play pond hockey in the most exciting and diverse city in North America while being virtually anonymous outside the rink while doing it. What's not to love?
Let's face it, there is a massive shortage in the NHL of quality players right now. Even if the entire team stinks for the whole year, those guys will still get their shiny new contracts next summer.
In the meantime, the guys get paid to play pond hockey in the most exciting and diverse city in North America while being virtually anonymous outside the rink while doing it. What's not to love?
I wish we kept him, but you can tell the players weren't buying into him as much. Sather's to blame for the personnel (players) change, which, in my opinion, cost Torts his job. Lost the chemistry from trades. Lost good two way forwards needed in Torts' system that can chip in offensively. Lost the edge needed.
Sullivan was the one that needed to go. The power play was unacceptable. That lost us a few games.
I thought Tortorella should've gotten one more full season and see how it played out. The lockout year was crap.
Can you blame Tortorella for Richards playing like trash? Can you blame Tortorella for Nash's invisible abilities in the playoffs? I don't think so. Kreider's lack of production wasn't Tortorella's fault.
Players needed to be held accountable instead of not wanting to get yelled at. *******.
Sullivan was the one that needed to go. The power play was unacceptable. That lost us a few games.
I thought Tortorella should've gotten one more full season and see how it played out. The lockout year was crap.
Can you blame Tortorella for Richards playing like trash? Can you blame Tortorella for Nash's invisible abilities in the playoffs? I don't think so. Kreider's lack of production wasn't Tortorella's fault.
Players needed to be held accountable instead of not wanting to get yelled at. *******.
No, and we aren't NHL coaches.
I am not an expert.
But I can fundamentally compare one NHL team to another NHL team, and under Torts we were not heading in the same direction as -- any -- of the better teams in this league.
Fans are shortsighted, which they should be, but a few things gets lost in times like this.
1. We have a roster hand-picked for Torts right now, and players that has been drilled by Torts for the last 3.5 years.
Our blueline really really really struggles to move the puck up ice and out of their own end. And it starts when we go out to pressure D's because you have to think a step ahead in the game nowadays.
Its an extremely hard environment out there to makes moves in. Not much room at all to change the team through trades etc.
2. Facts are that we are without Nash, Callahan, Hagelin and Stepan missed the training camp.
Its quite possible that Torts is a better option than AV in this sitaution, if I wanted to get result with an expansion team Torts is high on my list. But, we in NY intends to be or become a contender with this "generation" and like I said, under Torts we opted to go in a completely diffrent direction compated to the other better teams in this league.
3. Giving up a first goal or two is and has never been a good idea in this league if you want to win a regular season game. What are the odds for the team that scores first to win? 70%?
Hank and or Biron has from time to time thrown pucks into his own net. Its only been 7 games.
Agree with the first part, not the second.
These are professional athletes with a ton of pride. They aren't children. They aren't coasting because they have a softer boss.
They are changing systems and philosophies. They have lost some of their confidence for sure. Loss of confidence = tentative play = a team that looks sluggish/dis-interested.
Let's also not lose signt of the fact that Hank has been lousy so far. That game at the Rock the other night should have been a typical 2-1 grinding boring win that became the trademark of the Torts era. When you build your team around the goalie and the goalie isn't good you are going to lose.
Hank has had these blips before so I have no doubt that he will get straightened out.
It's such a long year.
It seems like some of the same people who in the Summer were saying "lets give it 20 games and see where we are" are now chalking this up as a loss and a bad hire already.
We haven't even played a home game yet..
If thats the case, and it very well might be. How long before we ask the next logical question -- is this current group willing to buy into anybody? They've looked worse than ever when it comes to energy and desire with a new coach at the helm.
Theres still time, and we'll see what happens when the team is healthy, but this situation sure is trending towards a classic case of "careful what you wish for."
Sather will have a hard time blaming another coach for his roster's failings -- being that 3/4th's of his team are free agents next season the next target will be the players.
BearishRiggs
Registered User
- Mar 21, 2013
- 183
- 38
The whole team appeared just as lazy as they do now under Torts last season. I remember the games, and specifically what the GDT's were saying. This isn't Torts' team anymore. We're not a chip n'grind hockey team like we were in 11-12, the personnel changes have reflected that, and the coaching change needed to reflect it as well. The team we have now was built for someone other than Torts. It's as simple as that.
In all honesty, I think we plateaued with Torts. We made it to the ECF after a brutal season, and two loooong playoff rounds. We basically lost to the Devils fourth line. Our best chance to go further was in a shortened season when the style of our game wouldn't completely be our downfall come the postseason, and we got bumped out earlier than the year before. Blame it on the new players, blame it on whoever, but the point is you can't convince me the same thing wouldn't have happened this year under Torts. Some new blood was needed, and I'm willing to wait until we have at least something resembling a full roster to judge it completely.
In all honesty, I think we plateaued with Torts. We made it to the ECF after a brutal season, and two loooong playoff rounds. We basically lost to the Devils fourth line. Our best chance to go further was in a shortened season when the style of our game wouldn't completely be our downfall come the postseason, and we got bumped out earlier than the year before. Blame it on the new players, blame it on whoever, but the point is you can't convince me the same thing wouldn't have happened this year under Torts. Some new blood was needed, and I'm willing to wait until we have at least something resembling a full roster to judge it completely.
Yeah Tortorella's time of winning us playoff series was up. hahaha
But Sather's time keeps going....and going....and going.
The team is a disaster all around.
Idlerlee
Registered User
- Apr 19, 2013
- 4,227
- 807
When the going is though, you want a guy like Torts to snap you back to reality and get you fired up.
His type of mentality is really quite excellent in the short span. Some degrading, within a team environment with the purpose of forcing an individual to better himself, more often than not produces enhanced results - rather than positive reinforcement.
For example is is the same type of approach they take in any army around the globe, to turn boys and turn them into men within a unit. The principle is the same.
However, as with anything, too much of a thing is too much, and eventually relationships will start to deteriorate since I imagine all Torts was doing, was being angry. And when that happens, he loses the locker room.
AV is a guy that looks anemic on the bench, and its painful to watch, when its obvious to me at least, that the team needs a strong leader to reinforce their belief in themselves. Not a guy chewing gum.
One can make the argument that these are professional athletes all you want, but that does not mean that they are immune to insecurity and doubt, just like the rest of us.
Its difficult to say wether letting Torts go or not was the right choice, but right now I certainly wish he wasnt gone.
His type of mentality is really quite excellent in the short span. Some degrading, within a team environment with the purpose of forcing an individual to better himself, more often than not produces enhanced results - rather than positive reinforcement.
For example is is the same type of approach they take in any army around the globe, to turn boys and turn them into men within a unit. The principle is the same.
However, as with anything, too much of a thing is too much, and eventually relationships will start to deteriorate since I imagine all Torts was doing, was being angry. And when that happens, he loses the locker room.
AV is a guy that looks anemic on the bench, and its painful to watch, when its obvious to me at least, that the team needs a strong leader to reinforce their belief in themselves. Not a guy chewing gum.
One can make the argument that these are professional athletes all you want, but that does not mean that they are immune to insecurity and doubt, just like the rest of us.
Its difficult to say wether letting Torts go or not was the right choice, but right now I certainly wish he wasnt gone.
UlfNilsson
Registered User
Keeping in mind that Torts strategy complemented the roster - he made the most of what he had - maybe AV wasn't the best choice. If rumors that he had lost the team are true maybe the better choice would have been Ruff as a replacement. Ruff's style is more similar to Torts, so it would have been a new voice but the same basic approach to the game.
These guys don't have the skill to play the system that AV used in Vancouver. The defense-first concept was needed when Torts was here because that's the system with the most potential for success given this roster.
These guys don't have the skill to play the system that AV used in Vancouver. The defense-first concept was needed when Torts was here because that's the system with the most potential for success given this roster.
I agree to an extent.
But you've got a GM at the helm who, year after year, insists hes put together a better roster than reality would suggest
What he said.
Last season under Torts the Rangers record for the first month of the seasons was 3-4. This season they started out 2-5. And if you go back the prior two seasons, the Rangers were 4-6 and 5-5 out of the gate. Fact is, Torts never got the Rangers off to a hot start.
And you already know the team started with 2 of it's Top 6 forwards out with injuries. And Nash went down after only 3 games. You can't be without your top players and expect to have any great success.
Not to mention we have yet to play a home game and still won't have done so for another 5 days. Which is one of the most ludicrous schedule starts ever.
Once healthy, the Rangers will be competitive again. They may be a 2-5 team now, but they won't stay that bad over the long haul. Just like Philly won't be playing at a 1-7 pace and St. Louis won't be playing at a 5-2 pace as the season progresses. Performances will level off over a full season.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
Don't get yelled at for mistakes and feel
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SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
It's like there's a substitute teacher and the class is going to watch a movie.
offdacrossbar
misfit fanboy
really ? this thread is just silly.
that ship has sailed. we have bigger fish to fry peeps.
this is av's team now and so far, his team flat our blows chunks. and i will again reiterate my thoughts on why that is.
WE HAVE ZERO TALENT UP FRONT.
that ship has sailed. we have bigger fish to fry peeps.
this is av's team now and so far, his team flat our blows chunks. and i will again reiterate my thoughts on why that is.
WE HAVE ZERO TALENT UP FRONT.
Not sure how lack of talent up front translates to us getting blown out most nights. Losing 9-5 isn't any better than losing 9-2. In fact, we played perhaps our best game of the season when we were missing our top forward.
The players obviously don't miss Torts, and most fans don't either, but the product he was able to ice each night was far more appealing than what we've seen so far. Trying to file it down to "We need Torts!" is just plain narrow-minded. New system, new coach, bad schedule, rough camp, plenty of injuries. Torts would have had plenty of problems as well.
The players obviously don't miss Torts, and most fans don't either, but the product he was able to ice each night was far more appealing than what we've seen so far. Trying to file it down to "We need Torts!" is just plain narrow-minded. New system, new coach, bad schedule, rough camp, plenty of injuries. Torts would have had plenty of problems as well.
SingnBluesOnBroadway
Retired
The lack of talent up front doesn't explain the lethargy, lack of urgency and lack of intensity which they've played with more often than not.
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