How is John Tavares a minus player on the Islanders?
- Thread starter Bure
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trick9
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- Jun 2, 2013
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troyerlaw
Life is party again
Riseonfire
Josh Bailey! GAME ONE, TO THE ISLAND!!!
- Nov 8, 2009
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A mix of both. He's not good defensively but he's also no awful. As an Isles fan I couldn't care less if he was minus. We're winning, so whatever is going on it seems to be working.
ML19
Registered User
He tends to get caught in his defensive zone after extending shifts by 10-15 seconds. It's one of the very few aspects of his game he needs to fix.
It's also interesting that Stamkos is a 0 on Tampa while Tyler Johnson is +25.
Tavares isn't terrible defensively, but he's not good.
Tavares isn't terrible defensively, but he's not good.
Bure
Registered User
ML19
Registered User
He also came off a season ending knee injury last year. I think it's taken some time for him to find his legs. He's just starting to hit his stride.
Uncle Scrooge
Hockey Bettor
And people always argued that if JT played for a better team he'd be a plus player for sure etc.
Now the Isles are 3rd in the league and JT is still a minus player. Go figure.
Just like Hall would supposedly score 120 points on a contender team.
People never learn.
Johnson's line has it all going on. Fantastic chemistry. Stamkos on the other hand has poor chemistry with Flip and Callahan and thus ES production isnt as good.
blinds
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- Jan 5, 2012
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Wow, I didn't even notice. That's pretty impressive for a guy getting 66.6% offensive zone starts on a team that is +25 overall. How bad do you have to be defensively?
It's a good thing he's Canadian or people might jump on him like they did Ovechkin. Even worse, he's a center.
It's a good thing he's Canadian or people might jump on him like they did Ovechkin. Even worse, he's a center.
Sky04
Registered User
- Jan 8, 2009
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Meh, same thing with Stamkos, teams are at the top of the standings and they've yet to really put it together. I've read that he's been prone to bad turnovers and long shifts, looks like they've been hanging out too much in the off season.
Bure
Registered User
I'd say he's worse than average defensively if he can't stay positive on a team like the Isle's.
I'd still love him on my team and think he makes much more of a positive impact than his faults do. Similar to Ovechkin.
I'd still love him on my team and think he makes much more of a positive impact than his faults do. Similar to Ovechkin.
blinkman360
Loyal Players Only
He's been better since Bailey since joined his line(I think he's like a +4 since then), but that's never going to be a strong point of that line. He's not as bad as the numbers show, but as another poster said, he tends to extend his shifts and get caught in the defensive zone. Hopefully he addresses it, but as long as we're winning - it's whatever...
TheTwelfth
Registered User
Tripod
I hate this team
Can I just say...when was the last time anyone said 'He's been better since Bailey since joined his line'? lol...just kidding guys.
Glad to see Bailey turning it around. He was on the outs many of times by Isles fans. Some just just take longer.
As for Tavares...surprised that he is a minus as I would assume most time the play is in the offensive zone based on his starts.
But defense is not a strength of his game...most know that. Crazy skilled offensively though.
It is those things that will make him a more complete player. He has gotten much better at FO this year so maybe defense will be the next step.
Hivemind
We're Touched
this
Plus/Minus is not "useless", it's worse than that. It provides 0 useful information and people make false judgments off it.
The reason Tavares is a "minus player" is because when Tavares is on the ice, NYI goalies have a 0.898sv%. Tavares is not causing his goalies to play like replacement level AHL 3rd stringers, it's just luck. It has absolutely NOTHING to do with Tavares' defensive ability.
Over the past 3 seasons, 2 of the 5 best on-ice save percentages belong to defensive luminaries Shawn Thornton and Cody McLeod, while the bottom-20 includes wretched defensive players like Patrick Elias, Frans Nielson, and Mark Giordano... that's sarcasm
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Classicnamesup
MVP Backhand Slapper
Actually it tells you that he has had more ESGA than ESGF when he is on the ice. It tells you a lot and if you're happy with your first line centre allowing more than he scores that's on you. I would be very concerned of I was an Isles fan.
redbull
Boss
- Mar 24, 2008
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Tavares is a very good hockey player and works his tail off, offensively and defensively. His plus/minus sucks this year because he's had a terrible first half. He had a hot start (mostly PP points) then played his worst hockey since his rookie year for about 30 games, and has pick-up his play (and his plus minus) a lot since then.
Since Dec20th he's got 10 goals (just 3PP) and 19pts and is a +5 - and has been over 60% on faceoffs 7 times. He's just starting to heat up.
Can't stress this enough, he was TERRIBLE earlier in the season, even though he was getting points. Giveaways, taking long shifts, couldn't hit the net, dumb decisions on the PP and in the offensive zone - but worst of all was that he was playing ONLY on the perimeter. He was afraid (seemingly so) to initiate contact, terrible on the forecheck and puck pursuit - he was almost a liability on the ice.
Not sure what happened but in the last couple of weeks before the break, he started to pick-up his game significantly.
In the last NYI-NYR game, on his first shift, he went into the corner with Girardi, chasing a loose puck....Tavares led with a shoulder into Girardi, something he hadn't done all year. He had one of his best games all season.
You can analyze numbers all you want, Tavares is a big-time player and leader. But you will always find a number to support a narrative, one way or the other.
Since Dec20th he's got 10 goals (just 3PP) and 19pts and is a +5 - and has been over 60% on faceoffs 7 times. He's just starting to heat up.
Can't stress this enough, he was TERRIBLE earlier in the season, even though he was getting points. Giveaways, taking long shifts, couldn't hit the net, dumb decisions on the PP and in the offensive zone - but worst of all was that he was playing ONLY on the perimeter. He was afraid (seemingly so) to initiate contact, terrible on the forecheck and puck pursuit - he was almost a liability on the ice.
Not sure what happened but in the last couple of weeks before the break, he started to pick-up his game significantly.
In the last NYI-NYR game, on his first shift, he went into the corner with Girardi, chasing a loose puck....Tavares led with a shoulder into Girardi, something he hadn't done all year. He had one of his best games all season.
You can analyze numbers all you want, Tavares is a big-time player and leader. But you will always find a number to support a narrative, one way or the other.
redbull
Boss
- Mar 24, 2008
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