How In The World Is Tim Thomas Not In The HHOF?

[Golden_Jet]

If it is indeed the "Hockey Hall of Fame" and not the "NHL Hall of Fame," which I think it should be, I think it's stupid that Vladislav Tretiak isn't in it.

lol, Tretiak has been in the hall for 35 years.

 

[Nfumass]

Because he was a known dick.

That shouldn't have ANYTHING to do with it but in hockey it does.

How was he a dick? Maybe I missed something years ago. I’ve met him a few times and he always was very personable and nice.

 

[Romang67]

They have nearly the same career numbers. What made his seasons more exceptional?

The literal meaning of the word exceptional.

In Dryden's worst season compared to his peers, his save percentage was 2 standard deviations above average. His best was 5. They aren't comparable, and comparing them would make Tim Thomas look really bad. I'd recommend against it. Dryden's peak is comparable to Hasek's. Thomas is not in the same stratosphere.

 

[Summer Rose]

To provide some missing context/info:

He actually became the starter in the 05-06 season. When he was finally called up in Jan 2006, halfway through the season, he started 35 of 41 games after that. And he played excellent on that pretty bad Bruins team. Posted .917 sv% vs a league average of .901% (same as it currently is this year).

He was injured in 09-10 with a bad hip. Clearly affected his play and why he lost the starters job, to Rask (who was playing at a Vezina-level). After he got offseason surgery he returned to his excellent form. Also, not sure what you're referring to with allowed 5 goals in his only OG start in this season.

I looked at the game logs to check because I didn’t recall even giving up five goals in a single game the entire tournament. Unless I can’t read for some reason, Ryan Miller started every game. Tim Thomas came on in relief of Miller in the semifinal against Finland, and stopped 6 of the 7 shots he faced over the course of the last 11 minutes of the game (which we won 6-1). Didn’t play otherwise, and Quick didn’t play at all.

 

[Summer Rose]

lol, Tretiak has been in the hall for 35 years.

I have already called myself a moron in this thread for saying that he wasn’t. I probably deserve to be called a moron again though, so fair is fair.

 

[MXD]

Had Tim Thomas became a regular in 02-03 (let's assume no lock-out, and let's assume he's a Top-10 starter year-in year-out with light starter workload), he's a shoo-in.

But borderline cases are always easier to distinguish. This is what keeps Theoren Fleury out too. This is what kept Barrasso out for a while too. If the actual Thomas would've had a middle shelf HHOF goalie career (Bernard Parent is probably the easy comparison here), he'd be in. Same thing if Fleury would've had the same career as Martin St-Louis. Same thing if Barrasso had the same career as Ed Belfour.

None of these 3 guys absolutely have to be in, purely by precedent. They'd be lower-shelf HHOF'ers

 

[Toby91ca]

They have nearly the same career numbers. What made his seasons more exceptional?

Are you being sarcastic or serious here?

 

[Romang67]

You can just say why and not be a seething dickhead about it.

Quite frankly, I assumed everyone knew that the average save percentage had changed between the 1970s and 2010, so I didn't take the question seriously. But in case you didn't, the average save percentage jumped by .2, from .890 to .910 over that period.

Dryden is not a comparison point. His career is like if Thomas came into the NHL, had his first season in 2009, replicated that performance in 2010, had his same performance in 2011, then followed it up with a 2-3 better seasons, before retiring to become a lawyer.

 

[joestevens29]

They have nearly the same career numbers. What made his seasons more exceptional?

I mean he has 5 vezinas that you so drastically love

 

[Bruins4Lifer]

An extra half season of starter play, but not exceptional play, does very little to support his claim to a spot in the Hall. His .917 were just above the numbers of Hannu Toivunen, a mediocre backup.

He returned to his excellent form for one season after the surgery. Then he had a mediocre season following that, and was done. Which is the entire issue with any claim that he deserves to be in the HHoF. It spans three seasons, one of which was bad.

Toivonen also played pretty good that 05-06 year, it was the year after when you could call him a mediocre (or probably worse) backup. Thomas' 06-07 sv% of .905 to his backup's .875 doesn't look that bad either then. The 05-06 season's first half starter was Raycroft, who had an .879% on the same team.

We have different definitions of mediocre and bad when a goalie can be like 10th and 15th, respectively, in sv% among starters and be called that.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Quite frankly, I assumed everyone knew that the average save percentage had changed between the 1970s and 2010, so I didn't take the question seriously. But in case you didn't, the average save percentage jumped by .2, from .890 to .910 over that period.

Dryden is not a comparison point. His career is like if Thomas came into the NHL, had his first season in 2009, replicated that performance in 2010, had his same performance in 2011, then followed it up with a 2-3 better seasons, before retiring to become a lawyer.

I assumed the NHL hadn't changed at all since the 50s let alone the 70s.

 

[Romang67]

Toivonen also played pretty good that 05-06 year, it was the year after when you could call him a mediocre (or probably worse) backup. Thomas' 06-07 sv% of .905 to his backup's .875 doesn't look that bad either then. The 05-06 season's first half starter was Raycroft, who had an .879% on the same team.

We have different definitions of mediocre and bad when a goalie can be like 10th and 15th, respectively, in sv% among starters and be called that.

We do. I don't think the save percentage tells the full story for Bruins goalies over that time period. I don't think the two best goalies in the world over the period 2008-2015 were Tim Thomas and Tuukka Rask.

 

[MichaelFarrell]

H should absolutely be in the Hall of Fame. He was a spectacular goalie and was a key figure in the era he played.

Over 400 games played with a career .920 sv%, Stanley Cup, Conn Smyth, and a Vezina. This shouldn’t even be a discussion.

Also, Tukka Rask should be in the Hall of Fame as well. One of the best goalies I’ve watched.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Are you being sarcastic or serious here?

Serious like what? A rattlesnake bite? Nothing on this website should be taken seriously in the actual sense of word. I did request an explanation. I don't know why it's so offensive to do so.

 

[crowi]

As an old Jokerit fan, where he played before getting his NHL shot, I think he should be considered just for his perseverance alone. The trophies and Cup secondary. This guy never got anything easily, always worked for them hard and finally made it. He is a feel-good story.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

You can just say why and not be a seething dickhead about it.

I assumed the NHL hadn't changed at all since the 50s let alone the 70s.

Serious like what? A rattlesnake bite? Nothing on this website should be taken seriously in the actual sense of word. I did request an explanation. I don't know why it's so offensive to do so.

 

[WATTAGE4451]

Thomas's career(9yrs) was only "short" because he started when he was already 28. Being undrafted and pulled from a beer league is pretty incredible as far as modern professional sports athletes go. How often does that even happen? He's got the story, the trophy case, and career numbers to be in when compared to others. And since we've established there's no hard lines that players need to meet, the only remaining factor is his career ended more or less in controversy. Barrasso's in a similar position. Should be a HOFer. Isn't for non-playing career reasons.

Barrasso is in the hall of fame

 

[kingsholygrail]

...yeah, a NON-Habs fan pointing out why Dryden is a HHoFer and Thomas isn't is the problem here...great call...

I didn't ask why Dryden was in the hall, you f***ing idiot.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Fun trivia - rattlesnakes are not poisonous. They're venomous.

Also, what the hell happened to this thread while I was on a call? Everyone got mad.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I didn't ask why Dryden was in the hall, you f***ing idiot.

...YOU replied to the Dryden comparison...or did you already forget??...

They have nearly the same career numbers. What made his seasons more exceptional?

...and so it was explained to you...and you replied by calling him a "seething d*ckhead"...

You can just say why and not be a seething dickhead about it.

...so I think we're done here...

 

[MichaelFarrell]

...yeah, a NON-Habs fan pointing out why Dryden is a HHoFer and Thomas isn't is the problem here...great call...

It’s not what they say it’s how they say it. I’m not arguing that Dryden accomplished more than Thomas. But, it’s crazy that a guy literally just asks a question and gets guys like you giving weird condescending responses.

It’s just not how people would have a discussion with a stranger in real life. It’s very bizarre behavior and it’s a fairly unkind.

 

[joestevens29]

Fun trivia - rattlesnakes are not poisonous. They're venomous.

Also, what the hell happened to this thread while I was on a call? Everyone got mad.

View attachment 996215

I miss your useless nonsense posts.

Funny how they are more relevant to a thread than most of the other posts

 

[Bear of Bad News]

If you guys keep up the namecalling, I'm going to actually have to do some work here.

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

It’s not what they say it’s how they say it. I’m not arguing that Dryden accomplished more than Thomas. But, it’s crazy that a guy literally just asks a question and gets guys like you giving weird condescending responses.

It’s just not how people would have a discussion with a stranger in real life. It’s very bizarre behavior and it’s a fairly unkind.

...yup, it was all us...apologies...

 

[BigDaddyLurch]

I miss your useless nonsense posts.

Funny how they are more relevant to a thread than most of the other posts

...I'm trying to be Kinder, Gentler...it's hard here sometimes...