How good of a goal scorer is Gordie Howe?

[JackSlater]

One of the best ever, probably the only underrated part of Howe's game as he gets credit as an all around force constantly and is viewed mostly as a balanced offensive threat.

Though it must be said that he mostly played in a league with 18 top-line forwards.

Either way 8th is basically 8/18 which is not really comparable to 8th today.

I wonder how this new, interesting information will impact the discussion of hockey history in this forum. I will post later after I've done a calculation to guess how many teams there were, if there were 18 first line forwards, in the Original Six era.

 

[Albatros]

If you start losing to middle six players your season has pretty much exited the conversation anyway.

 

[MadLuke]

I think first PP unit can make things a little bit complicated, even if it is not a terrible rough idea (and the other way around fast expension that double first liner obviously do not double competition).

Middle six player when they are Geoffrion, H Richard or Mikita-Hull not on the same line type, that a bit like Crosby-Malkin, Sakic-Forsberg, no shame loosing to second line player on a stacked team.

Goulet was a second line for a lot of his career, how many top 10 in goal finish ?

If Howe is one of the best ever, what does it make Beliveau, he scored a bit more in the playoff, they follow each quite close in gpg every 6 years stretch, would he not be more a candidate for the most underrated goal score, has Howe quite often named very high but you never see Beliveau.

 

[daver]

I wonder how this new, interesting information will impact the discussion of hockey history in this forum. I will post later after I've done a calculation to guess how many teams there were, if there were 18 first line forwards, in the Original Six era.

Look forward to this being put into layman's terms after I have done processing the news that water is wet.

 

[seventieslord]

In that exercise the focus was on goals-per-game average rather than total adjusted goals.

Yes but correct me if I'm wrong, the goals per game average was calculated using their adjusted goals versus their real number of games played, is that correct?

 

[daver]

Though it must be said that he mostly played in a league with 18 top-line forwards.

A look at the Top 10 scorers from '00 to '19 vs. the Top 10 scorers from '46 to '66 sees the #3 scorer in the O6 finishing behind #1/#2 by the same amount as the #5 scorer in the current era, the #5 scorer in the O6 finishing by the same amount as the #10 scorer in the current era.

I.e. Howe's 20 years of Top 5 finishes are more like 20 years of Top 10 finishes.

That is about as far as you can go with trying to consider league size IMO. Any further you have gone too far down the "what if" rabbit hole. Great players produce regardless.

Howe is Top 6 all-time, on a slightly lower tier than the top one which I think includes Hull, Wayne, and Mario.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Yes but correct me if I'm wrong, the goals per game average was calculated using their adjusted goals versus their real number of games played, is that correct?

I believe so

 

[TheBig08]

So was how good of a goal scorer is Gordie Howe?

to make it simpler is overrated as a goal for having so many goals but it took him 1,767 for him to get that many.

 

[overpass]

middle six players

Not really an idea from that era. Second line forwards could win scoring titles because every team played four forwards on the top power play. Some played five.

 

[Albatros]

Not really an idea from that era. Second line forwards could win scoring titles because every team played four forwards on the top power play. Some played five.

If you can't best those guys as a GOAT candidate goal scorer, then you're not.

 

[Michael Farkas]

So, then a Corey Perry or, worse, Jonathan Cheechoo type...?

 

[MadLuke]

to make it simpler is overrated as a goal for having so many goals but it took him 1,767 for him to get that many.

He played almost all of his career in a low scoring environment and a lot of game at old age.

If we look at the original six era (42-67), player with at least 250 games, best gpg

Richard..: .56
Hull.....: .56
Blake....: .47
Howe.....: .47
Beliveau.: .47
Geoffrion: .47

Playoff at least 50 games

Richard..: .62
Hull.....: .54
Beliveau.: .53
Geoffrion: .44
Howe.....: .43
Keon.....: .40

You cannot push him out of the Top 5 goal scorer of the 06 that a lock and probably round the top 3 with Richard-Hull, he won 5 goal scoring title, scored 688, Richard is second at 544 no one else reach 450.

And he still scored a lot of goal after the 06 ended in 2 different leagues.

If you can't best those guys as a GOAT candidate goal scorer, then you're not.

Fair enough, but no one was basing Howe scoring prowess on those top 8 finish, make them Top 20 finish now (which is nice for your tail end)

He has 14 top 5 in goals, 12 top 3 and 5 top 1, no need to spend a lot of time of what he did outside of that if you want.

 

[seventieslord]

I believe so

Then what I'm saying is correct.