How good do we think we are?
- Thread starter Bye Bye Blueston
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I don't see any way to rebuild the team properly except through the draft. We've still got a decent core that can be supplemented with other trades over the next couple of years to make us competitive. I still don't see us as being legitimate contenders though. Right now is the time to start preparing to trade players to start stocking up on draft picks. In two, maybe three years, we're probably going to be in a position where we'll be selling off the likes of ROR, Tank, etc. to teams at the trade deadline, and that is when we'll need to blow it up. What I don't want to see is anyone picked up on 5-8 year contracts. That would wreck the long term future of the club.
I'm sure I'm about to the point of obnoxiousness saying this (apologies in advance to the forum), but the Central is no joke and next year could be the year the warts grow a little more obvious. A lot can and will happen in the next 4 months, but if the Blues only manage to lose a replaceable depth-piece in the ED and re-sign their RFA/UFA this off-season, which team among these seven would folks be confident in predicting a healthy Blues club to finish ahead of in the standings?
Arizona? Chicago? Colorado?
Dallas? Minnesota? Nashville? Winnipeg?
You've got Colorado up top and Chicago (probably) at the bottom...but if we're making wagers on next year's standings based on this year's rosters (dumb, i know), I'm putting the Blues no better than 6th. And that's with everybody healthy.
The Blues currently have no identity, atrocious penalty-killing (25th), one of the worst CF% (24th), a small defense that is less than the sum of its parts, and a whole lot of question marks. Even when the Blues were relatively healthy, they still weren't a good possession team and that needs to change if they're going to become contenders again. Based on defense alone, Colorado, Dallas, Minnesota & Nashville are all clearly superior to the Blues'. I think next year is a step back and a likely playoff-miss; and that's when the fun begins as Parayko and ROR approach UFA.
I’m reminded of an old Jon Lovitts SNL skit where he was making a case for himself with the ladies.
“Lower your standards!”
mk80
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I’m not mathematician so someone will have to check me on this but I heard Chicago this year over an 82 game season would have been on pace to make the playoffs in terms of points too, so I don’t even think they are a bottom feeder in the Central
Brian39
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They were not on pace to make the playoffs. They finished on pace to earn 80.5 points, which was on pace to be 7+ points back of Colorado, Minnesota, St. Louis, Nashville, Dallas, and Winnipeg in an 82 game season. 24 of their 55 points came from going a combined 12-4 against Detroit and Columbus. They earned 31 points over their remaining 40 games, so there is a decent argument that their point total was actually inflated by the COVID schedule.
Things can change and predicting hockey is very hard. But Chicago/Arizona are pretty safe bets to miss the playoffs by a good margin in next year's Central. They were both sub-.500 point percentage teams this year, had goal differentials in the -20s, and both likely view next season as another step in a rebuild rather than a year to contend.
BlueMed
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- Jul 18, 2019
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The bolded is a bit premature considering this season and last were abnormal by format. This off season will be a big one. There are suggestions that the Blues go after a guy like Eichel. Knowing Army, he has the willingness to make big trades, as we have seen over and over. We also know that he has committed to winning another cup in the next 4 years so I think he will make a big splash and do whatever it takes to make the Blues contenders again.
Yeah - I admitted elsewhere that it's pretty dumb to predict next year's standings based on this year's roster; but the stench of the defeat and the sinking realization that the long off-season has begun is the perfect time for criticism and a defeatist attitude. Once training camp has started, the optimism will hopefully abound but that depends a lot on what management wants to do with this roster. If they expect to keep this team largely in tact and improve on this year's results, well, that's a bold decision that would deservedly welcome scrutiny and second-guessing.
Make final push and use last prospects and picks for it
Well it will be long arse re-build here if Army throws away future pieces where we currently stand now.
It was huge mistake break down foundation of Blues.
Pietrangelo.
And this will e pain the arse long time.
Hopefully you guys start to see it someday.
I don't think Eichel makes any sense for us. We don't have anything that Buffalo would want that doesn't hurt us equally as bad somewhere else. He also doesn't line up with our current core. We are going to have to tear it down probably sooner than I think some people realize. Starting to stockpile picks would be a good start. Making sure we aren't handing out long term contracts would also help. I remember DA talking about every plan having an immediate approach, a 5 year approach, and beyond. I think that 5 year plan is about to become the focus. It's not dumpster fire territory yet, but the decline has begun.
BlueMed
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The Blues should either go for it now or start rebuilding it now. Anything in between is a mistake. Army already signed Faulk and Schenn to long term contracts and has stated that he is ready to win now. Getting a guy like Eichel does make sense if we want to win another cup in the next 3-4 years, and he would be the perfect guy to re-energize the group heading into next season. The Blues have lots of good trade pieces for Eichel including Thomas/Kyrou, Perunovich, Dunn, Kostin, 1st round draft picks, and even guys like Barbashev or Sundqvist. If this Colorado series proved anything, it's that you can't always "out-depth" teams like the Blues did in 2019 because inevitably there will be teams with superstars that can take over a series if they have good supporting depth like the Avalanche.
Sgt Schultz
Registered User
While I do not like the trend that I see, it is very difficult to draw too many conclusions with as many questions as I have. Compound that with the fact that walking out of the bubble, I liked the idea of Faulk but every time I saw him in the defensive end my chest tightened. But, an offseason and pseudo training camp seemed to cure that. He'll never be prime Chara or Lidstrom in our defensive zone, but my chest does not tighten anymore (from him, at least).
I agree with an earlier statement that the team lacks and identity and also a cohesiveness on the ice. But, it is possible that was the fallout from the way this season was laid out from start to finish.
I agree with an earlier statement that the team lacks and identity and also a cohesiveness on the ice. But, it is possible that was the fallout from the way this season was laid out from start to finish.
Not sure where this notion that we are loaded with long term contracts comes from. Schenn is only forward signed more than 2 years. Krug, Faulk, and Scandella (3 years) are only D. And Binny. Now maybe those contracts don’t age well, but would hate to see club without our 2nd best center and 2nd and 3rd best D.
AjaxManifesto
Pro sports is becoming predictable and boring
It's about hunger.
Too many guys lost the hunger.
They used COVID and team injuries as an excuse.
Now there are no excuses.
Too many guys lost the hunger.
They used COVID and team injuries as an excuse.
Now there are no excuses.
I don't see us as having too many long term contracts. I do see that when the current core, close to 30, hits the final years of their current contracts we have to transition. That's going to be difficult if we re-up some guys until they're almost 40. I'd rather try to remain competitive for a couple years while stocking pics. I don't think a trade like what we did when we picked up ROR is a winning strategy with the current make up of the team. There are too many missing pieces in the roster and no clear blueprint for what kind of team we'll be going forward.
Celtic Note
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AjaxManifesto
Pro sports is becoming predictable and boring
Renard
Registered User
Adding to my disappointment is the fact that I expected Parayko and Thomas would become stars and lead the team this year. They didn't.
I realize that injuries played a part. So maybe they become stars next year.
I realize that injuries played a part. So maybe they become stars next year.
Renard
Registered User
I don't know if "loaded" is the right term, but you named five. Five out of a team of twenty. And we didn't get much out of any of them except Faulk.
Sgt Schultz
Registered User
The irony of that is only two of them were on the Cup winning team. Usually teams that get into contract/cap trouble doling out large contracts to players who helped them win a championship, rewarding them for the past and not a reasonable expectation of future performance. We largely avoided that pitfall.
Although in the case of Petro one could argue that we signed one too few from that pool and made up for it by signing one too many from elsewhere. Although I would squirm at the length of Petro's contract with Vegas. But, we replaced a roster spot on defense and gave up 6-inches of height and 24-lbs of bulk and didn't get appreciably younger in the process. Bulk isn't everything back there, but when the noticeable problems are allowing opponents to wander unchecked into the slot area and allowing one or more to stand around like government employees in front of your goalie, a little more bulk or tenacity wouldn't hurt.
By not giving away our 1st+ previous first round pick (name here) trying to get one guy+. We can still stay competitive for a couple of years with what we have now as long as we aren't selling assets to try and land the next fresh UFA on a 7 year contract. You can do that when you think you only need that piece or two to be cup competitive, but does anyone really think we are anymore? We just need to ride out the roster we have and address positions of need with affordable guys willing to take a 3/4 year contract. We need to begin thinking about stocking up on youth again and get ready for the rebuild to come.
Celtic Note
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I think we either have different definitions of competitive or we view the current abilities of the team differently.
To me competitive is trying to win a Cup. Or, at the very least getting to a conference final and hoping we luck our way to the Cup. This team isn’t one I would bet on for either at the moment. Playing above our potential and all other teams we play faltering is the only route at the moment and those chances aren’t great.
I think we could possibly get there with a heavy retool, but that costs assets.
Would you have bet on Florida or Minnesota this year? Or would you have bet Dallas and the Nucks wouldn't even make the playoffs?
If the Stanley went to the best team on paper every year.... We would have won more then 1. Tampa would be on like 3 cups in the past 3 years..... There are surprises every year.
There are upsets every year in the playoffs - even thought a 7 games series should prevent that. You don't know until you play the games.
I see both views. The Blues aren't a preseason contender any more. But at the same time, there are enough pieces left from a very competitive team that its not a lost cause.
The three issues I see:
- The Blues (or any contending team) needs to have some bounces go their way with respect to injuries. The Blues had the opposite this year. If you could rewind this exact season and have the Blues be lucky in that department, they could conceivably battle the contenders.
- The defense needs help. Part of this will resolve with better health. But they probably need another big-bodied guy to help shut down opponents. When the Blues were winning playoff series, they had guys that could simply shut down any quality chances. This year, even when they were winning the Blues give up way too many shots and way too many high quality chances.
- The Blues are in a division that includes the 2 best teams in the league this season. You could be the 3rd best team in the league, and still not make it to the 2nd round. Next season, the division is going to continue to be a sawmill. Colorado will have to make some tough choices and probably won't have as strong a roster. But young teams that are improving (like Chicago) will be more to contend with. Minnesota will be good. Dallas may be healthier. Not sure what to expect from Nashville. Arizona...who knows.
This will be a crucial offseason for Armstrong. If he truly is one of the better GMs in the league, and if the Blues' scouting department is good, I expect him to make a couple moves to bring in a defender that isn't a flashy name but ends up being the right fit to help the pairings. But the Blues should NOT be parting with 1st round futures unless its for a young player with several cost-controlled years ready to play now.
The three issues I see:
- The Blues (or any contending team) needs to have some bounces go their way with respect to injuries. The Blues had the opposite this year. If you could rewind this exact season and have the Blues be lucky in that department, they could conceivably battle the contenders.
- The defense needs help. Part of this will resolve with better health. But they probably need another big-bodied guy to help shut down opponents. When the Blues were winning playoff series, they had guys that could simply shut down any quality chances. This year, even when they were winning the Blues give up way too many shots and way too many high quality chances.
- The Blues are in a division that includes the 2 best teams in the league this season. You could be the 3rd best team in the league, and still not make it to the 2nd round. Next season, the division is going to continue to be a sawmill. Colorado will have to make some tough choices and probably won't have as strong a roster. But young teams that are improving (like Chicago) will be more to contend with. Minnesota will be good. Dallas may be healthier. Not sure what to expect from Nashville. Arizona...who knows.
This will be a crucial offseason for Armstrong. If he truly is one of the better GMs in the league, and if the Blues' scouting department is good, I expect him to make a couple moves to bring in a defender that isn't a flashy name but ends up being the right fit to help the pairings. But the Blues should NOT be parting with 1st round futures unless its for a young player with several cost-controlled years ready to play now.
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I don't disagree that they need a reliable "big bodied" guy (or at least one with good reach) on the blueline, but that's not enough with how fast the top teams are now. That "big bodied" guy had better be able to skate and be mobile or they're getting turnstiled. Scandella is a prime example of a big bodied guy who simply isn't good enough in my view to be a reliable Top 4 shutdown guy because he can't keep up with the pace of play.
