How far away are the Kings from contention?

[KingsHockey24]

Brodzinski played 35 games this past season and scored 4 goals. If he plays 82 games that prorates out to 9.37 goals over the whole year. I assumed a small amount of development. Is that unreasonable?

And what makes you think he'll play more than 35 this season?

Iafallo/Kopitar/Brown
Pearson/Carter/Toffoli
Rieder/Kempe/Lewis
Clifford/Thompson/Amadio/Andreoff/UFA Signing's/Vilardi

Hard to see him getting that many games with the log jam of forwards we have.

 

[Kingspiracy]

I largely agree with your first paragraph. Predicting the future is difficult if not impossible. With that said I think Blake needs to look at the math and try and put the Kings in the best position to succeed. Finding another 20 goal scorer should be the priority to put the Kings in the best possible position to succeed.

As for your second paragraph I disagree with the point that the Kings need near career years from everybody. My numbers above are below career highs for everybody except Toffoli who is at his three year average. I really think the Kings offensive talent is severally underrated.

I don't think Kopi is a lock for 30 goals, Except for this season the last time he got 30 was 2009/10. This year felt like Kopis and Browns "prove it" year. They we're flying like shit off of a shovel at the start of the season, after ditching Sutter. I think Kopi is closer to 25 and Brown will be nudging late teens to 20.

 

[Chruceg]

And what makes you think he'll play more than 35 this season?

Iafallo/Kopitar/Brown
Pearson/Carter/Toffoli
Rieder/Kempe/Lewis
Clifford/Thompson/Amadio/Andreoff/UFA Signing's/Vilardi

Hard to see him getting that many games with the log jam of forwards we have.

This is a fair point. I went back and counted how many forwards I included and there were 13 not counting Vilardi. My hope is that it's the Cliffords and Thompsons of the world that get bumped from the lineup.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

And what makes you think he'll play more than 35 this season?

Iafallo/Kopitar/Brown
Pearson/Carter/Toffoli
Rieder/Kempe/Lewis
Clifford/Thompson/Amadio/Andreoff/UFA Signing's/Vilardi

Hard to see him getting that many games with the log jam of forwards we have.

Then wouldn't you think his replacement would be better and thus have more goals?

If your angle is just to crap on Brodzinski that's fine, but if it's to crap on his roster spot, well, if someone upgrades on him and scores less....

 

[Herby]

Brodzinski has some value because the Kings need to become waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more skilled and he could possibly be one of those guys that scores 10-12 goals in a bottom six spot. We aren't getting that from Thompson, Clifford, Andreoff, Mitchell etc. You can say you don't believe in Brodzinski and that is fine, I still have my doubts as well, but we need to add that skill to the lineup and he is already an in-house guy so he should atleast be given a look. We just have to many guys on this roster who are complete offensive black holes and there isn't enough scoring throughout the lineup to allow the Kings to load up on grinders again in the bottom six and expect to win.

And everyone correctly is talking about a 1st line winger, and that is obvious, unfortunately a decade of ignoring that position has really done significant damage to the Kings. Awful talent at the NHL level and not much at the AHL/reserve list either. If the Kings are going to get that type of player it's going to cost Muzzin, and then all that does is open up another hole, this time on defense.

If you want those 30 more goals that we all agree they need. Ice a lineup like this...

Kempe- Kopitar - Brown
Iafallo- Valardi- Carter
Pearson- Lewis- Toffoli
Andreoff- Amadio- Brodzinski

Suddenly you have some offensive upside throughout the lineup without having to move one of the defenders, and any of the top 3 LW's could play in different spots depending on chemistry and what not. It is still far from a strength, but this lineup is going to be better in today's NHL than what we had last year.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Then wouldn't you think his replacement would be better and thus have more goals?

If your angle is just to crap on Brodzinski that's fine, but if it's to crap on his roster spot, well, if someone upgrades on him and scores less....

I'm simply just crapping on Brodzinski.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Brodzinski has some value because the Kings need to become waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay more skilled and he could possibly be one of those guys that scores 10-12 goals in a bottom six spot. We aren't getting that from Thompson, Clifford, Andreoff, Mitchell etc. You can say you don't believe in Brodzinski and that is fine, I still have my doubts as well, but we need to add that skill to the lineup and he is already an in-house guy so he should atleast be given a look. We just have to many guys on this roster who are complete offensive black holes and there isn't enough scoring throughout the lineup to allow the Kings to load up on grinders again in the bottom six and expect to win.

And everyone correctly is talking about a 1st line winger, and that is obvious, unfortunately a decade of ignoring that position has really done significant damage to the Kings. Awful talent at the NHL level and not much at the AHL/reserve list either. If the Kings are going to get that type of player it's going to cost Muzzin, and then all that does is open up another hole, this time on defense.

If you want those 30 more goals that we all agree they need. Ice a lineup like this...

Kempe- Kopitar - Brown
Iafallo- Valardi- Carter
Pearson- Lewis- Toffoli
Andreoff- Amadio- Brodzinski

Suddenly you have some offensive upside throughout the lineup without having to move one of the defenders, and any of the top 3 LW's could play in different spots depending on chemistry and what not. It is still far from a strength, but this lineup is going to be better in today's NHL than what we had last year.

We've been through this a million times. There is nothing wrong with our 4th line. All our 4th liners produced similar to the league average; and even equal to the Tampa Bay Lightning who many believe it the deepest team in the NHL. Our middle six needs to step there shit up. 9 goals from Iafallo, 15 from Pearson, simply isn't enough. Doesn't help that Jeff Carter missed 75% of the season either.

 

[Herby]

You already answered the question why we need scoring throughout the lineup. Just like I tell RS every time he defends our bottom six as scoring or skilled enough. We don’t have the elite scorers in the top 9 a team like Tampa has. If we want to address the scoring issues throughout the lineup we have to either trade for multiple top six wingers or try and change the way we play. Clifford/Pearson/Toffoli/Iafallo don’t give you enough skill and goals to makeup for having a bunch of slow grinders in your bottom six.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

You already answered the question why we need scoring throughout the lineup. Just like I tell RS every time he defends our bottom six as scoring or skilled enough. We don’t have the elite scorers in the top 9 a team like Tampa has. If we want to address the scoring issues throughout the lineup we have to either trade for multiple top six wingers or try and change the way we play. Clifford/Pearson/Toffoli/Iafallo don’t give you enough skill and goals to makeup for having a bunch of slow grinders in your bottom six.

I mean, some people give up when they get hammered in the face with facts repeatedly, but I admire your willingness to ignore them.

Now if you say our middle six have issues--i.e. top line is great, bottom line is great, 2nd and 3rd relatively sucked this year--then you'll be agreeing with just about everyone including John Stevens. But as much as you hammer our bottom six only to be very easily rebutted, you just continually show an inability to attribute value to good depth players. Hell, you just admitted the problem ISNT the bottom six when you mentioned 3 of the middle guys in Pearson, Toffoli, Iafallo, so I'm not sure you even believe yourself.

 

[Herby]

I mean, some people give up when they get hammered in the face with facts repeatedly, but I admire your willingness to ignore them.

Now if you say our middle six have issues--i.e. top line is great, bottom line is great, 2nd and 3rd relatively sucked this year--then you'll be agreeing with just about everyone including John Stevens. But as much as you hammer our bottom six only to be very easily rebutted, you just continually show an inability to attribute value to good depth players. Hell, you just admitted the problem ISNT the bottom six when you mentioned 3 of the middle guys in Pearson, Toffoli, Iafallo, so I'm not sure you even believe yourself.

Ha, typical clown response, not surprising though considering the sources

The facts argument is especially hilarious from the biggest (or now 2nd I guess) homer on the board. The FACTS are the Kings have 1 playoff win in four years but black hole homers like yourself are never willing to trade or move on from any of the guys you love adding a “y” to the end of their name. (Credit Big King).

Can’t move Doughty, can’t move Carter, can’t move Clifford or Thompson, can’t move Vilardi. How do you expect to fix this teams problems?

And no the Kings don’t have any “great” lines going into next season mainly because they don’t have a single winger on the roster who can be counted on to be a 1st liner, so how do we have a great 1st line?

You attack my posts but you really don’t think an AA/Amadio/Brodzinski bottom line makes the team as a whole better?

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Ha, typical clown response, not surprising though considering the sources

The facts argument is especially hilarious from the biggest (or now 2nd I guess) homer on the board. The FACTS are the Kings have 1 playoff win in four years but black hole homers like yourself are never willing to trade or move on from any of the guys you love adding a “y” to the end of their name. (Credit Big King).

Can’t move Doughty, can’t move Carter, can’t move Clifford or Thompson, can’t move Vilardi. How do you expect to fix this teams problems?

And no the Kings don’t have any “great” lines going into next season mainly because they don’t have a single winger on the roster who can be counted on to be a 1st liner, so how do we have a great 1st line?

You attack my posts but you really don’t think an AA/Amadio/Brodzinski bottom line makes the team as a whole better?

Are you sure you want to double down on this?

 

[damacles1156]

Kempe/Iaffalo/Pearson/Toffoli all skilled guys, we know this.

Down the stretch. Since February 1st

Kempe: 2G 11A 13P (Didn't score a single goal since feb 9th, assists look ok)

Iafallo: 5G 5A 10P (kind of picked up his production, needed more from the minutes he played though)

Pearson: 5G 7A 12P (Just seems like Pearson should have had more)

Toffoli: 6G 11A 17P (Assist seem ok but need more goals of Toffoli, he is suppose to be a sniper).

Now I am going to make your head explode.

Kyle Clifford since February 1st: 5G 3A 8p (That's a 4th line player folks)......

These guys received the bulk of the middle lineup minutes and the Kings needed more from them down the stretch, at least it feels that way. Especially needed more out of them in the playoff's Including Carter.

32 games played down the stretch this group managed 18 goals 15 of them at Even Strength. I feel like that is not enough for the amount of minutes these guys got.

Just some numbers, ponder it.

 

[damacles1156]

I mean, some people give up when they get hammered in the face with facts repeatedly, but I admire your willingness to ignore them.

Now if you say our middle six have issues--i.e. top line is great, bottom line is great, 2nd and 3rd relatively sucked this year--then you'll be agreeing with just about everyone including John Stevens. But as much as you hammer our bottom six only to be very easily rebutted, you just continually show an inability to attribute value to good depth players. Hell, you just admitted the problem ISNT the bottom six when you mentioned 3 of the middle guys in Pearson, Toffoli, Iafallo, so I'm not sure you even believe yourself.

People still thinking 4th lines score 40-50 points a year collectively do they ?

I'll repeat it once again.

If your 4th line player scores 7-10 ES goals and 15-20 Points in a season. You have one of the best 4th line players in the NHL.

 

[Kingspiracy]

Kempe/Iaffalo/Pearson/Toffoli all skilled guys, we know this.

Down the stretch. Since February 1st

Kempe: 2G 11A 13P (Didn't score a single goal since feb 9th, assists look ok)

Iafallo: 5G 5A 10P (kind of picked up his production, needed more from the minutes he played though)

Pearson: 5G 7A 12P (Just seems like Pearson should have had more)

Toffoli: 6G 11A 17P (Assist seem ok but need more goals of Toffoli, he is suppose to be a sniper).

Now I am going to make your head explode.

Kyle Clifford since February 1st: 5G 3A 8p (That's a 4th line player folks)......

These guys received the bulk of the middle lineup minutes and the Kings needed more from them down the stretch, at least it feels that way. Especially needed more out of them in the playoff's Including Carter.

32 games played down the stretch this group managed 18 goals 15 of them at Even Strength. I feel like that is not enough for the amount of minutes these guys got.

Just some numbers, ponder it.

Are those number for the big red dog right? Geez i vote clifford for the 1st line.

 

[DoktorJeep]

We’re eating our own here in this thread trying to answer the original question. The problem is that the Kings doomed to mediocrity until the expensive vets from the cup teams are all retired. And yes Dean Lombardi had a hand in it, but it’s not anyone’s fault in the franchise, it’s the fault of gary bettman and th nhlpa. You need no further proof of what a complete joke of a pro sport this bush league is than what VGK has done. I fully expect them to win the cup at this point.

I’m a Kings hockey fan since I was a teen in the early 90s, longer than a few of people here now, but nothing compared to the age of the pro game and the history of the teams and Stanley Cup. It’s fun to latch on to a team when they are winning, but you find other, better reasons to stick around when the home team is hard to root for. But the best part of being a fan is that there is always a new season.

Unless you are an nhl fan, then in the past 30 years, the league and players union couldn’t figure out how to slice up the pie and wrote off a couple of full and half seasons. And where we’ve ended up is this perverted cap system which underpays players who perform early in their career and locks teams into immovable contracts that are overvalued and essentially penalized.

Owners win because their monolopy becomes more lucrative through expansion, Bettman wins because he gets regional sports tv revenue by marketing parity, players win because they finally bargain for the right to retirement contracts and don’t need a felon lawyer to get it.

The only loser is the fan, especially those in markets with owners who want to buy the best players to help their team win. Until the current cap system changes, there is little Luc & co. can do to improve the teams talent. Fortunately there is an NHL cba expiration date coming up in the next few years.

 

[damacles1156]

Are those number for the big red dog right? Geez i vote clifford for the 1st line.

I had to check it numerous times myself, they are correct. Your head just exploded didn't it ?

 

[Herby]

Are you sure you want to double down on this?

Double down on what?

The Kings wingers are terrible, whether they played on lines 1-4, not to be surprised considering the position was ignored by management and scouting (which are still the same).

The Kings don’t have the players in the minors or system that can be effective top 6 players outside of Vilardi, they could trade Vilardi but no one seems to want to do that. So its going to be way easier and realistic to insert a Brodzinski and Amadio in there and hope they can generate more offense than it is to fix the players up top.

This gets back to the need to rebuild, but again many here and unfortunately the people in charge of the Kings don’t want to do that so I’m just trying to figure out the best way to live in the black hole and I believe that’s loading up as much skill as you can from 1-12 vs the old Kings way of grinding teams to death, something that hasn’t worked in going on 5 years. And if you want to insert Clifford instead of Andy that’s fine, they are the same thing really. The problem is you can’t win if your going to roll with both those guys and Thompson and Mitchell. It’s like an NFL team trying to win with the ground game and defense.

 

[Kingspiracy]

I had to check it numerous times myself, they are correct. Your head just exploded didn't it ?

Definately, Im very suprised. That stat needs to be stickied next time its bash on clifford day

 

[Chruceg]

This gets back to the need to rebuild, but again many here and unfortunately the people in charge of the Kings don’t want to do that so I’m just trying to figure out the best way to live in the black hole and I believe that’s loading up as much skill as you can from 1-12 vs the old Kings way of grinding teams to death, something that hasn’t worked in going on 5 years. And if you want to insert Clifford instead of Andy that’s fine, they are the same thing really. The problem is you can’t win if your going to roll with both those guys and Thompson and Mitchell. It’s like an NFL team trying to win with the ground game and defense.

I understand the desire for a rebuild. I really do. I just disagree that it is necessary. The numbers show that the Kings need Vilardi to play well plus one more winger to not just be competitive to be elite. The Kings have been very consistent defensively over the past five years so the need is purely goal scoring. If Vilardi scores 10 goals that requires one solid winger to get to 30. Which isn't unreasonable. I think when we look at the numbers the need for a rebuild seems more far fetched than the need for one winger.

 

[KingsHockey24]

Definately, Im very suprised. That stat needs to be stickied next time its bash on clifford day

I'm sure Sol will come up with something to say.

"They were all just lucky bounces; we need an elite 4th line forward like Tomas Tatar."

 

[damacles1156]

The Kings need more from Toffoli/Pearson/Iafallo/Kempe, and for them to not fall flat on their face in playoff's. It's really that simple.

It would also help if Tobias Rieder chipped in more.

 

[member 88115]

It's funny reading how the Cliffords and MacDermids are the ball and chain of our team, yet the expansion team is close to making the finals with Reaves, Engalland and McNabb on the team. WTF. It really comes down to what the top 9 does on your team. If they cant produce, we have no success.

 

[Frolov 6'3]

You seriously got to wonder how bad we actually are after watching Vegas this whole playoffs.

Kings havent seen the second round since 2014 but we (most likely) faced two stanley cup finalists in the first round, the two times we were there.

Thats really unlucky.

 

[kenito7]

You seriously got to wonder how bad we actually are after watching Vegas this whole playoffs.

Kings havent seen the second round since 2014 but we (most likely) faced two stanley cup finalists in the first round, the two times we were there.

Thats really unlucky.

The Kings lost 4 straight to Vegas that is more than bad luck. Also the Kings were healthy for the playoffs so Carter missing regular season games does not matter. Except for maybe the Ducks who would the Kings have beaten in the first round? If you want to count Vegas accomplishments as a moral victory for the Kings go ahead but the rest of us will just count it as another loss.
Just because the Kings lost to 2 Cup finalists does not mean they would have advanced past the first round anyway. One playoff win in 4 years is bad no matter what.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

The Kings lost 4 straight to Vegas that is more than bad luck. Also the Kings were healthy for the playoffs so Carter missing regular season games does not matter. Except for maybe the Ducks who would the Kings have beaten in the first round? If you want to count Vegas accomplishments as a moral victory for the Kings go ahead but the rest of us will just count it as another loss.
Just because the Kings lost to 2 Cup finalists does not mean they would have advanced past the first round anyway. One playoff win in 4 years is bad no matter what.

No, they weren't, and I'd remind you that Fantenberg-Martinez was our top pairing for Game 2.

Frolov's point is pretty clear, and I agree with it--for all the folks who love crapping all over the Kings here, more-lauded teams--including one who people can't seem to stop worshipping around here--have gone down similarly.

All it means is it's fair to question how 'bad' the Kings actually are.