How does our rebuild compare to others?

[Do Make Say Think]

Dorion carried it out so it was extremely poorly done.

With how bad we were and for that long, that we are where we find ourselves today, and knowing that our window to compete will be miniscule; our rebuild has been very poor.

Yeah we have Tkachuk, Stutzle and Sanderson, but most teams have three excellent players. We should be a top team, instead this is the first year we don't completely suck since 2017.

 

[BondraTime]

For Ottawa to take the next step and keep the playoff window open, we need to get lucky in the draft and find a star in the later rounds. Example: Alfie and Stone in the 6th rounds altered our franchise dramatically. Even in the first round, getting a star player in the latter half like Erik Karlsson or Chabot. Obviously it's true for every organization: success hinges on finding star players.

Unfortunately, I do not see any potential later round stars from our last few drafts. Hopefully Merilainen, taken in the 3rd round, will evolve into a number one.

Their drafting is going to limit those kind of players taken, which is absolutey terrible

They have taken the safe, big players almost exclusively the past 4 drafts. Have almost eliminated skill from the equation.

Last thing we need is another 6'6 physical guy. Or big toolsy guys. That's almost exclusively who we draft.

 

[Tuna99]

Going great, if the rebuild has shown anything it’s the team has a lack of speed, team speed is fine but I do find in the top 6 they lack some dynamism just skating with the puck - but overall not a concern just woild be nice t to have some after players

 

[Gil Gunderson]

We still have good prospects in Merilainen and Yakemchuk (still not the biggest fan of the pick) coming through, but we sucked way too much from 2021-2024 to pretty much come up relatively empty handed. Dorion drafting really f***ed us.

 

[Loach]

One thing I’ve thought about was how long a rebuild should take. I mean, how do you evaluate whether it's a successful rebuild if there’s no timeline metric to compare with?

I’ve always thought it was 5 years from the start of a rebuild to making the playoffs. But, I’m not sure where I got that idea. But do know it's been mentioned somewhere (not sure what sport though).

But, more recently, I’ve begun to think that maybe its a bit longer than 5 years, like maybe 7 years. In summary, I don’t really know. I can’t fathom anything over 7 years being good, but maybe that’s just me (my idea).

The other topic is what are the other criteria for measuring success. A team could make the playoffs in lets say year 4 or 5, and then miss the playoffs the next year(s). Is that success? Hmmm …… who knows?

The other element is that Brady’s NTC will kick in. If the timer hadn’t elapsed already, another (the 2nd?) timer will start when BT’s NTC kicks in. That will be a “window”, or “another window” at that point.

5 years might come from how long it took to make the playoffs when the team was fresh from expansion, but there where only 21 teams then...(I think). Old Lou said last week that a rebuild takes 10 years now...I'm guessing that he is taking into account the way expansion works now, the amount of teams drafting making it harder to get talent quickly and things like that. If Dorion didn't Dorion then 5-7 years seems reasonable. A bit longer would be stalled and an even bit longer would be failed.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Dorion had a GMs dream to tear it down to the studs and rebuild.. His decisions a long the way muted the rebuild and ignored deficiencies and left the Senators prospect poor. His lack of intelligence, interpersonal skills, management skills and respect around the league was on full display.

A few years when EM was still alive, before he was finally fired the league and the Sens were looking at bringing the organization some senior help in hockey ops. That never materialized . Shame and I think there was a lack of interest, and the reporting hierarchy was never dealt with properly.

 

[bicboi64]

Relative to our divisional rivals, except for Buffalo, our rebuild has been pretty ass.

Detroit's rebuild started when Yzerman was hired in 2019. Prior to that, Holland had depleted the organization of assets and had a shit ton of awful contracts on the roster with very few building blocks .Yzerman had to tear down a lot before he could even start building. He's done an adequate job accumulating assets, trying to fill the cupboards and drafting a few cornerstones (Seider, Raymond, etc.,) but not enough of his prospects have emerged as Ottawa's has which is why Detroit is 'behind' Ottawa. Even then, Detroit is still competitive and can make the playoffs despite not having as much elite talent as Ottawa. They've also never drafted higher than 4th as well during their rebuild relative to Ottawa who's had a 3rd, 4th, and 5th overall pick. They're only behind Ottawa because of draft luck.

MTL's rebuild pretty much started 3 years ago, but they had the luxury of having some pieces in the system (Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, etc.,) before officially entering tank mode. Hughes also has a bigger wallet to play with, and they don't have to worry about actual player salaries when making any moves. 3 years after their rebuild, they have a legit chance at making the playoffs, so they've been ahead. Hughes has been a better GM in every tangible way.

Dorion set us back 2 years. We should have made the playoffs in the last two years but Dorion just has poor roster evaluation. The first rounders used for Cat and Chychrun could've been used on players that were better fits and we'd have made more progress than having two luxury type players that we didn't need. Aside from hitting well in some drafts, most of our asset management during our rebuild was Milbury level so it makes sense why its taken us nearly 8 years to make the playoffs.

To me a successful rebuild doesn't equal a cup, its building a roster that is regularly in the playoffs and can go deep. A cup isn't everything, long term success is and to me that's icing a team that is capable of making noise in the playoffs. Look at SJS under Armstrong. They didn't win a cup, but they had a decade winning hockey and were able to go deep several of the years they made the playoffs. The Leafs might be chokers, but their rebuild has been successful in the sense that they've iced rosters that have the talent to go deep, but sometimes it just takes years. Look at Washington, it took a decade+ to get the right pieces in to get Ovie a cup.

Our rebuild has been shite, but its because Dorion really approaches Milbury levels of being awful.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

At some point, costly mistakes pile up and it's hard to recover from it

For us to have a chance to do anything significant, we'll need Staios to continue to pull Ullmark/Cozens deals... and acquire some good depth like Jensen, Amadio, Cousins... (but without paying a Chychrun of course)

And another crucial thing : need to draft extremely well again

That's why passing on Hutson for Eliasson will haunt me. Even the Yakemchuk pick doesn't look great, but I still think Yakemchuk will amount to something. Here's hoping we forfeit the 2025 first rounder and hit homeruns in 2026 espeically with Buffalo's 2nd rounder.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

Relative to our divisional rivals, except for Buffalo, our rebuild has been pretty ass.

Detroit's rebuild started when Yzerman was hired in 2019. Prior to that, Holland had depleted the organization of assets and had a shit ton of awful contracts on the roster with very few building blocks .Yzerman had to tear down a lot before he could even start building. He's done an adequate job accumulating assets, trying to fill the cupboards and drafting a few cornerstones (Seider, Raymond, etc.,) but not enough of his prospects have emerged as Ottawa's has which is why Detroit is 'behind' Ottawa. Even then, Detroit is still competitive and can make the playoffs despite not having as much elite talent as Ottawa. They've also never drafted higher than 4th as well during their rebuild relative to Ottawa who's had a 3rd, 4th, and 5th overall pick. They're only behind Ottawa because of draft luck.

MTL's rebuild pretty much started 3 years ago, but they had the luxury of having some pieces in the system (Suzuki, Caufield, Guhle, etc.,) before officially entering tank mode. Hughes also has a bigger wallet to play with, and they don't have to worry about actual player salaries when making any moves. 3 years after their rebuild, they have a legit chance at making the playoffs, so they've been ahead. Hughes has been a better GM in every tangible way.

Dorion set us back 2 years. We should have made the playoffs in the last two years but Dorion just has poor roster evaluation. The first rounders used for Cat and Chychrun could've been used on players that were better fits and we'd have made more progress than having two luxury type players that we didn't need. Aside from hitting well in some drafts, most of our asset management during our rebuild was Milbury level so it makes sense why its taken us nearly 8 years to make the playoffs.

To me a successful rebuild doesn't equal a cup, its building a roster that is regularly in the playoffs and can go deep. A cup isn't everything, long term success is and to me that's icing a team that is capable of making noise in the playoffs. Look at SJS under Armstrong. They didn't win a cup, but they had a decade winning hockey and were able to go deep several of the years they made the playoffs. The Leafs might be chokers, but their rebuild has been successful in the sense that they've iced rosters that have the talent to go deep, but sometimes it just takes years. Look at Washington, it took a decade+ to get the right pieces in to get Ovie a cup.

Our rebuild has been shite, but its because Dorion really approaches Milbury levels of being awful.

Let's hope we first make the playoffs this season and secondly, do continue to be a constant playoff team. I don't think our rebuild was shit, but disappointing. Nonetheless, we have a strong U-25 core, so I like that. Also wasn't Holland also very high on Seider as well? I think the ramblings said if Seider made it to the Edmonton pick, they would have picked him. Damn imagine the Oilers with Seider instead of Broberg. Most importantly, Seider not being in our division would have been great.

 

[bicboi64]

Let's hope we first make the playoffs this season and secondly, do continue to be a constant playoff team. I don't think our rebuild was shit, but disappointing. Nonetheless, we have a strong U-25 core, so I like that. Also wasn't Holland also very high on Seider as well? I think the ramblings said if Seider made it to the Edmonton pick, they would have picked him. Damn imagine the Oilers with Seider instead of Broberg.

I don't want to jinx it. I'm typing as though the playoffs are a given, and we could still choke and play our way out of a playoff spot. I don't think it'll happen, but you never know.

What's most frustrating is we have to rely on FA signings to fill out the roster because we don't have enough ELC talent because of our lost draft capital, but one problem at a time and I just want to enjoy the race this season.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

That's why passing on Hutson for Eliasson will haunt me. Even the Yakemchuk pick doesn't look great, but I still think Yakemchuk will amount to something. Here's hoping we forfeit the 2025 first rounder and hit homeruns in 2026 espeically with Buffalo's 2nd rounder.

that's Cole not Lane. Cole is looking good ... Rookie of the year in Hockey East



Our scouts picking Cole Hutson or Lane for that matter would be absolutely shocking.

In 2022 Sens picked Filip Nordberg two picks after Montreal took Lane

 

[Micklebot]

I think our rebuild could should have been accomplished faster, but in terms of how promising things are moving forward, I still think we are well set up.

Stutzle (22), Cozens (23), and Pinto (23) down the middle, not to mention Greig (22), is looking fantastic, maybe I'm still in the honeymoon phase with Cozens, but I think that's as strong of a young core as you're going to find and could be core players for a decade.

Sanderson (22) is an absolute stud, he might not win a Norris, but to me he's every bit as valuable as the kind of players that do.
Chabot is rounding into a very good offensive #2 without the burden of being a #1.

Tkachuk (24) is a monster when healthy, I think he's been fighting something for a bit now, but we all saw what he can do in the 4 nations.

All those guys except Chabot are under 25.

Ullmark and Merilainin look like they should be a strong tandem for the duration of Ullmark's deal,
Batherson is a great value contract albeit a bit inconsistent. Seems to be gelling with cozens though.

In the next 5 years, the only guys I think that will need to be replaced are Giroux, and maybe Jensen (he'll probably need a reduced role if he sticks around). We've got Yakemchuk and Zetterlund who show some promiss towards filling a top 4 D and top 6 Winger role.

We aren't a contender for the cup unless someone takes a next step or Yakemchuk turns into an absolute stud, but I think we should be a solid playoff team for the next bit.

It is really too bad Dorion wasted or diminished the value of 3 first round picks trying to fast track with DeBrincat, Chychrun, and the whole Dadonov fiasco.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

that's Cole not Lane. Cole is looking good ... Rookie of the year in Hockey East



Our scouts picking Cole Hutson or Lane for that matter would be absolutely shocking.

In 2022 Sens picked Filip Nordberg two picks after Montreal took Lane

Yes I'm aware it's Cole and I wish we picked him or a high scoring forward like Battaglia or Kieron Walton.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I think our rebuild could should have been accomplished faster, but in terms of how promising things are moving forward, I still think we are well set up.

Stutzle (22), Cozens (23), and Pinto (23) down the middle, not to mention Greig (22), is looking fantastic, maybe I'm still in the honeymoon phase with Cozens, but I think that's as strong of a young core as you're going to find and could be core players for a decade.

Sanderson (22) is an absolute stud, he might not win a Norris, but to me he's every bit as valuable as the kind of players that do.
Chabot is rounding into a very good offensive #2 without the burden of being a #1.

Tkachuk (24) is a monster when healthy, I think he's been fighting something for a bit now, but we all saw what he can do in the 4 nations.

All those guys except Chabot are under 25.

Ullmark and Merilainin look like they should be a strong tandem for the duration of Ullmark's deal,
Batherson is a great value contract albeit a bit inconsistent. Seems to be gelling with cozens though.

In the next 5 years, the only guys I think that will need to be replaced are Giroux, and maybe Jensen (he'll probably need a reduced role if he sticks around). We've got Yakemchuk and Zetterlund who show some promiss towards filling a top 4 D and top 6 Winger role.

We aren't a contender for the cup unless someone takes a next step or Yakemchuk turns into an absolute stud, but I think we should be a solid playoff team for the next bit.

It is really too bad Dorion wasted or diminished the value of 3 first round picks trying to fast track with DeBrincat, Chychrun, and the whole Dadonov fiasco.

Our pro scouting needs to be better, but if anything I like our pro scouting better than everyone but Montreal. When has Detroit and Buffalo managed to even get a Matinpalo let alone Zub from their pro scouting recently?

 

[Micklebot]

Our pro scouting needs to be better, but if anything I like our pro scouting better than everyone but Montreal. When has Detroit and Buffalo managed to even get a Matinpalo let alone Zub from their pro scouting recently?

I mean, our pro scouting got us Zub, Matinpalo, Cozens (for Norris), Zetterlund (tbd, but I think he'll be a steal). They identified Amadio and after a couple months of people complaining about him, he's looking like a very smart pickup. I know people still seem to hate the Perron deal, but he's also starting to pay dividends too. They saw through the Washington HFboards group think that had determined Jensen was finished and identified him as an excellent fit for our roster. Heck, lots of people were all up in arms about moving on from Joseph, he's got 11 pts, pacing at 18, it's starting to look like our pro scouts knew something about him.

The reality is that pro scouting can only do so much when your team is on a lot of NTC lists and UFA aren't particularly excited to come to a rebuild in a less desirable market. I think as the team starts to look more and more promising, our pro scouting will magically appear to be better. That's not to say they can't be better, or that they haven't made mistakes, but I think they get more grief than is deserved.

 

[Bjornar Moxnes]

I mean, our pro scouting got us Zub, Matinpalo, Cozens (for Norris), Zetterlund (tbd, but I think he'll be a steal). They identified Amadio and after a couple months of people complaining about him, he's looking like a very smart pickup. I know people still seem to hate the Perron deal, but he's also starting to pay dividends too. They saw through the Washington HFboards group think that had determined Jensen was finished and identified him as an excellent fit for our roster. Heck, lots of people were all up in arms about moving on from Joseph, he's got 11 pts, pacing at 18, it's starting to look like our pro scouts knew something about him.

The reality is that pro scouting can only do so much when your team is on a lot of NTC lists and UFA aren't particularly excited to come to a rebuild in a less desirable market. I think as the team starts to look more and more promising, our pro scouting will magically appear to be better. That's not to say they can't be better, or that they haven't made mistakes, but I think they get more grief than is deserved.

Even Debrincat by himself wasn't a pro scout failing. Sometimes you just can't predict how a person will behave. If we got debrincat of this season, our top 6 would be deadly.

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

.... His lack of intelligence, interpersonal skills, management skills and respect around the league was on full display....

Yeah, but other than those things he was pretty good.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

Looking at how many elite forwards recent Cup winners had(and I'm defining "elite" as being around or over point-per-game).

2009 Penguins had 2(Crosby Malkin), 2016/2017 had three (those two+Kessel)
2010s Hawks had 3(Toews, Kane, Hossa)
2011 Boston had 1(Bergeron), though Marchand and Krejci went PPG during the 2011 playoff run
2012&2014 Kings had 1(Kopitar)
2018 Capitals had 3(Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov)
2019 Blues had 2(O'Reilly, Tarasenko)
2020 and 2021 Lightning had 3(Stamkos, Point, Kucherov)
2022 Avs had 3(Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog), tho Kadri was arguably elite that year too.
2023 Golden Knights had 2(Eichel, Stone)
2024 Panthers had at least 3(Barkov, Reinhart, M.Tkachuk) and maybe Verhaeghe too.

Right now, I'd like to think Stutzle and Brady can be considered "elite", but we likely need one more high end forward. Although, if Yakemchuk ends up being a stud, we could have an amazing defence that may offset the need for another elite forward.

 

[Back in Black]

How does our rebuild compare to others?​

Compared to our other GM Dorion??? Knight & Day. 'Nuff said.

 

[Norris4Norris]

Looking at how many elite forwards recent Cup winners had(and I'm defining "elite" as being around or over point-per-game).

2009 Penguins had 2(Crosby Malkin), 2016/2017 had three (those two+Kessel)
2010s Hawks had 3(Toews, Kane, Hossa)
2011 Boston had 1(Bergeron), though Marchand and Krejci went PPG during the 2011 playoff run
2012&2014 Kings had 1(Kopitar)
2018 Capitals had 3(Ovechkin, Backstrom, Kuznetsov)
2019 Blues had 2(O'Reilly, Tarasenko)
2020 and 2021 Lightning had 3(Stamkos, Point, Kucherov)
2022 Avs had 3(Mackinnon, Rantanen, Landeskog), tho Kadri was arguably elite that year too.
2023 Golden Knights had 2(Eichel, Stone)
2024 Panthers had at least 3(Barkov, Reinhart, M.Tkachuk) and maybe Verhaeghe too.

Right now, I'd like to think Stutzle and Brady can be considered "elite", but we likely need one more high end forward. Although, if Yakemchuk ends up being a stud, we could have an amazing defence that may offset the need for another elite forward.

To be fair there are a lot more point per game players today than there were in 2009-2018.

There are currently 32 players above a point-per game.

There were 13 players who finished the 2009-2010 season above a point-per game.

In 2015-2016 there were 3 players above a point-per game.

In 2016-2017 only 6 players ended the year with above a point-per game.

It jumped to 19 players in 2017-2018 and has been rising every year since.

 

[Loach]

I think our rebuild could should have been accomplished faster, but in terms of how promising things are moving forward, I still think we are well set up.

Stutzle (22), Cozens (23), and Pinto (23) down the middle, not to mention Greig (22), is looking fantastic, maybe I'm still in the honeymoon phase with Cozens, but I think that's as strong of a young core as you're going to find and could be core players for a decade.

Sanderson (22) is an absolute stud, he might not win a Norris, but to me he's every bit as valuable as the kind of players that do.
Chabot is rounding into a very good offensive #2 without the burden of being a #1.

Tkachuk (24) is a monster when healthy, I think he's been fighting something for a bit now, but we all saw what he can do in the 4 nations.

All those guys except Chabot are under 25.

Ullmark and Merilainin look like they should be a strong tandem for the duration of Ullmark's deal,
Batherson is a great value contract albeit a bit inconsistent. Seems to be gelling with cozens though.

In the next 5 years, the only guys I think that will need to be replaced are Giroux, and maybe Jensen (he'll probably need a reduced role if he sticks around). We've got Yakemchuk and Zetterlund who show some promiss towards filling a top 4 D and top 6 Winger role.

We aren't a contender for the cup unless someone takes a next step or Yakemchuk turns into an absolute stud, but I think we should be a solid playoff team for the next bit.

It is really too bad Dorion wasted or diminished the value of 3 first round picks trying to fast track with DeBrincat, Chychrun, and the whole Dadonov fiasco.

4 picks. Don't forget Boucher.

 

[Ouroboros]

It probably went better than you'd expect given the obvious lack of ownership commitment to making it work.