How different would the Penguins be like (as of today) if...

[steveayres35]

1) They kept their 1st round picks and didn't trade them away?

2) *All* of their top prospects developed well (similar to the Dallas Stars)?

3) They protected MAF instead of Matt Murray in the expansion draft?

Click to read more...

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

1) They kept their 1st round picks and didn't trade them away?

2) *All* of their top prospects developed well (similar to the Dallas Stars)?

3) They protected MAF instead of Matt Murray in the expansion draft?

What is time frame on 1)? If we’re talking since 2013 then I think butterfly effect has us miss out on some cups.

2) would be sick obviously

3) idk how much this matters tbh

 

[Gurglesons]

lol.

if they kept all their 1st round picks they wouldn't have 2 cups from Phil Kessel.

 

[BlindWillyMcHurt]

The only first rounder the Penguins missed out on as far as I can tell is Barzal.

People make a little much out of mid to late first rounders. They aren't much to write home about, usually.

 

[Empoleon8771]

lol.

if they kept all their 1st round picks they wouldn't have 2 cups from Phil Kessel.

I'd even argue that they wouldn't have won in 2009 without the experience they got in 2008 either, which involved trading the 1st for Hossa.

 

[CheckingLineCenter]

The only first rounder the Penguins missed out on as far as I can tell is Barzal.

People make a little much out of mid to late first rounders. They aren't much to write home about, usually.

Which turned into Hagelin who while nowhere near Barzals level or value in the long run, was so key in jump starting the team and in both playoff runs.

Idk if we win either year without him.

Like sure it’d theoretically be nice to have your cake and eat it too but in the real world I’ll take the championships.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

The only first rounder the Penguins missed out on as far as I can tell is Barzal.

People make a little much out of mid to late first rounders. They aren't much to write home about, usually.

One of their first round spots was used on a player who, sadly, died from cancer.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

1) They kept their 1st round picks and didn't trade them away?

2) *All* of their top prospects developed well (similar to the Dallas Stars)?

3) They protected MAF instead of Matt Murray in the expansion draft?

I'd like to think how much better this team would be if they fired Sullivan in 2020.

Probably a f*** ton better.

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I'd like to think how much better this team would be if they fired Sullivan in 2020.

Probably a f*** ton better.

That's the same time I lost all faith in the team ever moving forward with him.

 

[eXile3]

I didn’t know all the Stars prospects turned out. Looks like a good deal of them did not like any other team

 

[GilbertSeinfeld]

I didn’t know all the Stars prospects turned out. Looks like a good deal of them did not like any other team

The Stars and Canes seem to draft and develop their prospects the best.

The Canes would probably do better in the playoffs if they could find reliable goaltending, but I think Brind'Amour is overrated as a coach.

 

[eXile3]

The Stars and Canes seem to draft and develop their prospects the best.

The Canes would probably do better in the playoffs if they could find reliable goaltending, but I think Brind'Amour is overrated as a coach.

I agree but no one is a 100% on prospects. Not even close

 

[BusinessGoose]

There's way too many variables to run this.

Better off doing a custom team and simming a season on whatever shitpile NHL game EASports has crapped out most recently.

 

[Tom Hanks]

It’d be very different. We’d be the Nick Spalling of NHL teams.

 

[Gurglesons]

The Stars and Canes seem to draft and develop their prospects the best.

The Canes would probably do better in the playoffs if they could find reliable goaltending, but I think Brind'Amour is overrated as a coach.

Canes haven’t had any of their prospects outside of Aho and top 10 picks be contributors recently,

 

[SEALBound]

ALL of their 1sts or just the ones we arbitrarily decided "didn't work out"?

ALL 1sts? No cups, that's for sure. 2008 got us Hossa and I think that was instrumental in getting us to the SCF and then winning the following year because who knows who they obtain if they don't get Hossa and how the 09 team is constructed.

They gave the 2015 1st for Perron who turned into Hagelin who was a big part of HBK and the 2017 Cup. Realistically, no draft pick or prospect we've let go in the cap era has amounted to anything significant. The only argument being the 1st for Perron who turned into Barzel. Are we better off with him down the road, maybe? I've done the analysis. The prospects and players "not with us" are a pretty barren field.

Prospects, I mean that's too hard to say. If Pouliot in this scenario turns into the second coming of Karlsson, Maatta turns into Lidstrom, and Beau Bennett becomes the next Phil Kessel...sure, things could have been different, but it's hard to know where to cap the talent, so it's not a great discussion.

Murray vs MAF - I don't think we get anywhere further with MAF than MM. The playoffs we lost under Murray, there were more issues there than just goaltending.

 

[tom_servo]

Lots of stuff could've gone better but you can't plan around goalies totally losing their confidence like ours did at certain points.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

The Stars and Canes seem to draft and develop their prospects the best.

The Canes would probably do better in the playoffs if they could find reliable goaltending, but I think Brind'Amour is overrated as a coach.

I think the Stars and Canes do because of incredible scouting and their development teams are not run as clones of their NHL team. The Penguins have this weird need to make Wbs clones of the big club and it feels like it restricts players from actually growing their game and are instead being groomed to fit roles the head coach wants them for vs developing the players into what they could be with their skillset. So if a winger is drafted and he is better at wing, wbs will instead turn him into a C and he'll go up into a 4th line role checking while playing a scoring role in wbs and it never matches up for a lot.

Sullivan is more interested in development of the next third or fourth liner he might need and turning shooters into complimentary players instead rather than taking a prospect with skill and seeing if he can grow into more.

Just how I feel anyway, obviously very annoyed.

Lots of stuff could've gone better but you can't plan around goalies totally losing their confidence like ours did at certain points.

So many goalies do, we just focus on it a f*** ton more. Also having coaches like Sullivan that can't evolve or fix their shitty team defensive scheme which allows teams to walk right in and park themselves in front of goalies or requires goalies to play out of their mind to win games because he can't coach for shit, usually drains every goalie.

 

[orby]

I think keeping MAF would probably have helped a little bit - he was better in the few years after the expansion draft than Murray was, for sure - but the team has had other issues besides goaltending, and I don't know if it really would have made a huge difference aside from maybe buying them another playoff round or two.

 

[BusinessGoose]

We wouldn't win another Cup with MAF. But murray sure did turn into a pumpkin

 

[HandshakeLine]

they should have never gotten attached to any goalie, ever.

Goalies should be ridden hard and then thrown away when they suck.

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

they should have never gotten attached to any goalie, ever.

Goalies should be ridden hard and then thrown away when they suck.

So like Tinder dates?

 

[BusinessGoose]

So like Tinder dates?

Haha, you should make a goalie scouting app called 'Tender

 

[Buddy Bizarre]

Haha, you should make a goalie scouting app called 'Tender

Ohhhh..clever!

 

[Slick Arnold]

I think a logical time frame for this hypothetical is just after the 2018 loss to the Caps when Tom Wilson Derangement Syndrome set in.