How big of a miracle was the "Miracle on Ice?"

[jigglysquishy]

My entire family came over before the Russian Revolution and still held the Russians in high regard. And the Ukranian culture really stayed down the generations. I have cousins who are fluent in Ukranian.

I certainly don't remember hearing anything from Soviet sources growing up. I think it stemmed more from the community being very socialist and very anti American.

 

[Killion]

Yes, quite clearly the MOST important moment in American history EVER, easily slays the Emanicpation Proclamation. I'd put it up there with the defeat of the Nazis & the resurrection of Christ in terms of its importance to world history. In fact, since the Miracle On Ice, there are millions of us who do not call this year AD 2013 & instead call it PLP 33. *[post Lake Placid]

... Right. On. Boom Boom. Now your getting into the spirit of things.

 

[Yamaguchi*]

Certainly, not as big as US media wants it to be.

 

[Hammer Time]

everything save the bolded comment is legit.

That US Team was put together in the summer of 79.

They played and trained together for 6-8 months?

The Soviets?

they did not share the same benefit the Soviets did.

And the Soviet lines (except for the top line) had been playing together about the same amount of time.

 

[obskyr]

People tend to overblow the whole thing as much as they overvalue the Soviet team of that time. Soviet hockey was going through generational transition back then, the coaching stuff was still relying on the big 70s stars who were getting old. The famous Mikhailov line in particular was in mid 30s. Tikhonov was also yet to build the Larionov Five, the core of the Soviet NT people usually refer to as "that unbeatable Red Machine" nowdays. The 70s USSR team wasn't actually as great as the guys who followed in their footsteps, it could go as far as losing to Poland 6:4 due to the bad luck or whatever. And even though they were empowered with talented newcomers like Makarov and Krutov (who despite being younger than most of the US team were among the Soviet top scorers) beating that team wouldn't be too miraculous.

Still, it was quite an important event, a memorable epilogue to the 70s USSR hockey generation one could see coming after the void left by the Chernyshev and Tarasov departure. But I don't really think that the 1981 Canada Cup (198:1 as it's often referred to in Russia) deserves to be less recognizable in hockey history, it was a landmark that started a new era. It's just there was no mass media to overblow it. Even in the former Soviet Union. Because the Soviet media sucked.

 

[Pominville Knows]

People tend to overblow the whole thing as much as they overvalue the Soviet team of that time. Soviet hockey was going through generational transition back then, the coaching stuff was still relying on the big 70s stars who were getting old. The famous Mikhailov line in particular was in mid 30s. Tikhonov was also yet to build the Larionov Five, the core of the Soviet NT people usually refer to as "that unbeatable Red Machine" nowdays. The 70s USSR team wasn't actually as great as the guys who followed in their footsteps, it could go as far as losing to Poland 6:4 due to the bad luck or whatever. And even though they were empowered with talented newcomers like Makarov and Krutov (who despite being younger than most of the US team were among the Soviet top scorers) beating that team wouldn't be too miraculous.

Still, it was quite an important event, a memorable epilogue to the 70s USSR hockey generation one could see coming after the void left by the Chernyshev and Tarasov departure. But I don't really think that the 1981 Canada Cup (198:1 as it's often referred to in Russia) deserves to be less recognizable in hockey history, it was a landmark that started a new era. It's just there was no mass media to overblow it. Even in the former Soviet Union. Because the Soviet media sucked.

For sure you're right to some extent. The Soviets took the loss to heart and speeded up the renewment in time for the 1981 Canada Cup. But still, look at the goal differential in 1980:

USA: 35-17
USSR: 67-19

Only against the top two other teams in the first round, and games in the final round(Not counting the heroic USA-USSR one to give a more general view):

USA: 15-9
USSR: 23-10

It's clear that the US team for one actually had some quality players and gained greatly by playing together for the whole season before the games, but the Soviets with similar surroundings certainly should have won and everything else was a great upset.

 

[Boom Boom Bear]

I am curious, you say that you grew up in a Ukrainian (Canadian prairie?) community. To what extent was the prevailing point of view influenced by Soviet information during the Cold War? Did it somehow find its way to North America around the Berlin Wall? It seems ironic to me, that a community of Ukrainians would view things in the terms you describe, given the war of 1917-21 and the annexation, etc.

The first wave of Russian & Ukrainian immigration to Canada came before World War I, & many were poor peasants who sympathized with socialism & later the Russian Revolution. Saskatchewan = CCF country. There was a smaller wave of Ukrainian immigrants post World War II: most of them were anti-communist, including a number of Nazis.

 

[sr edler]

The Soviet team were caught in a change-of-generations and didn't have the "best of tournaments". It happens. The american team were good, with up and coming players, and played on home ice.

I don't even know if it beats out Sweden vs Belarus in 2002 to be honest, in terms of upsets. Sweden of course wasn't the Big Red Machine but it was a best-on-best tournament and the team in the group stage beat Canada handidly 5-2, then the Czechs 2-1 and Germany 7-1. Only to lose against Belarus 3-4. Forsberg was injured but Sweden had all the other star players like Lidström, Sundin, Alfredsson, Näslund and Zetterberg. And a bunch of other solid NHL regulars like Öhlund, Jönsson, Nylander, Norström, Axelsson, Holmström.

Belarus lost every other game in that tournament. All but one in craptacular fashion. 4-6 against Russia. 1-8 against Finland. 1-8 against USA. 1-7 against Canada. 2-7 against Russia. That's 0-5 and a negative goal differential of −27 against all other teams not Sweden. Compare that to the 1980 american team which went undefeated through the tournament.

 

[svetovy poharu]

Also a point of interest, the 1980 U.S. team never faced Canada at Lake
Placid, and had struggled immensely against the Canadians in 7 pre-Olympic
games winning only 3 of the 7 matches, despite outscoring the Canadian
Olympic squad 28-22.

In comparison, the unheralded 1960 U.S. Olympic gold medal team, which
was predicted to finish in 5th place, went undefeated in 7 games, defeating
the Czechoslovak team twice, a 6-3 victory over Sweden, a 3-2 squeaker
over the Soviets for the first time that an American hockey team had ever
beaten the USSR, but the most important fact, achieving a 2-1 win over the
heavy gold-medal favourite Canada in which Canada outshot the Americans
40-27 and were single-handedly stopped by U-S goalie Jack McCartan,
including a 20-6 shots advantage in the 2nd period when Canada bombarded
the American net and should have scored several goals.

Not to diminish the achievements of the 1980 U.S. team, but it's a shame
the first gold medal winning 1960 U.S. Olympic team was pretty much
forgotten and relegated to second-tier status.

 

[HamDangled]

I took an American history course in grade 11. For our final project we had to pick a great event in American history in the 20th century and do a presentation on it. Most kids picked things like Watergate, Bay of Pigs, Korea, Vietnam, Kennedy assassination, etc. I however am not most kids and did my presentation on the Miracle on Ice. Had a great time doing it and it turned out to be one of the better presentations!

 

[VanIslander]

I was 11 years old when it happened... it was HUGE... up there with the 1972 Soviet Series in terms of EPICness...

Only the 1987 Canada Cup, 1998 Olympics and 2002 Olympics have compared at all to it.

The NHL seems bush league in terms of lifetime legacy of hockey history, but as soon as I think this, the '80s Oilers Dynasty, Mario, Hasek's peak and Ovechkin's first five years remind me of how much greatness has been undisputedly put in my face!!

In my lifetime, The Miracle on Ice and Wayne Gretzky made SI put hockey on the sports' world map!

 

[Butch 19]

It was an upset, but at times it is indeed overblown.

As was already said, quite a few future NHL stars were on that US team. Some even stepped onto NHL ice right after the Olympics and never looked out of place. The team was in fact so strong that they won the gold medal! Brooks was able to form a unit similar in the way the Soviet team was built. The US team trained and played together for nearly a year. And advantage none of the other teams in the tournament had. And of course everything fell into place at the right time. The Soviets had internal problems for the whole tournament, but it culminated with Tretiak being benched that night. Big mistake, which Tikhonov admitted. It disrupted the Soviet team and the US got themselves a once in a lifetime chance.

I don't think it can ever be overblown.

Back in 1980, the Olympics still only allowed amateur players, and the USA team were true amateurs, being college kids. The Russian team "claimed" to be amateurs, since they were all in the army. The US team played tournaments for 1 year..? So what? The Russian players had been playing as a team unit for 7+/- years. They were paid for being in the army, not for playing hockey... RIGHT!!

Now that professional players are allowed to play in the Olympics, and Russia isn't the hockey powerhouse they once were, and many top Russian players already play in the NHL, the chances of a dominate cohesive 7-yr group of any country's team is very small.

This was a true David vs Goliath scenario, something we may never even see the opportunity to happen again.

 

[nutbar]

Also a point of interest, the 1980 U.S. team never faced Canada at Lake
Placid, and had struggled immensely against the Canadians in 7 pre-Olympic
games winning only 3 of the 7 matches, despite outscoring the Canadian
Olympic squad 28-22.

In comparison, the unheralded 1960 U.S. Olympic gold medal team, which
was predicted to finish in 5th place, went undefeated in 7 games, defeating
the Czechoslovak team twice, a 6-3 victory over Sweden, a 3-2 squeaker
over the Soviets for the first time that an American hockey team had ever
beaten the USSR, but the most important fact, achieving a 2-1 win over the
heavy gold-medal favourite Canada in which Canada outshot the Americans
40-27 and were single-handedly stopped by U-S goalie Jack McCartan,
including a 20-6 shots advantage in the 2nd period when Canada bombarded
the American net and should have scored several goals.

Not to diminish the achievements of the 1980 U.S. team, but it's a shame
the first gold medal winning 1960 U.S. Olympic team was pretty much
forgotten and relegated to second-tier status.

Also almost totally forgotten is the US silver medal in 1972, with a team that included Ftorek, Mark Howe, Henry Boucha and not much else.

 

[Pominville Knows]

Now that professional players are allowed to play in the Olympics, and Russia isn't the hockey powerhouse they once were, and many top Russian players already play in the NHL, the chances of a dominate cohesive 7-yr group of any country's team is very small.

Just want to add that it's possible that russia still has just as good players as they had then. Only now they dont have that chemistry coming from basically playing together all year.

 

[IComeInPeace]

Also a point of interest, the 1980 U.S. team never faced Canada at Lake
Placid, and had struggled immensely against the Canadians in 7 pre-Olympic
games winning only 3 of the 7 matches, despite outscoring the Canadian
Olympic squad 28-22.

That doesn't sound like 'struggling immensely'...
Can you fill us in on the outcome of each of those games?

 

[Yamaguchi*]

As I have mentioned in the other thread, the US team trained together for about 7 months or so. They were actually a very solid hockey team.

They thrashed Czechoslovakia 7-3, they tied Sweden. So there was no miracle that they managed to defeat the Soviets in a close game.

 

[Bure All Day]

Assemble the best possible team of college pros, lose one of your best players, then play team Russia with all the best players (Ovi, Datsyuk, etc)

and there you have it, somehow they won that game

 

[Yamaguchi*]

Assemble the best possible team of college pros, lose one of your best players, then play team Russia with all the best players (Ovi, Datsyuk, etc)

and there you have it, somehow they won that game

The thing is the Americans won more than just that game in 1980. Again, they have won against all teams and only lost a point to Sweden.

Nobody could beat them. They dominated the competition (just like Lance Armstrong...)

 

[Bure All Day]

The thing is the Americans won more than just that game in 1980. Again, they have won against all teams and only lost a point to Sweden.

Nobody could beat them. They dominated the competition (just like Lance Armstrong...)

none of those teams compared to Russia

 

[Yamaguchi*]

none of those teams compared to Russia

I disagree. The Czechs/Slovaks were good.

 

[dwanmaster*]

Not as big of an upset as the Tune Squad over the Monstars

 

[BobbyAwe]

I wasn't around when it happened, so I was just wondering the scale of the upset that was the U.S. beating the Soviets. Is it overblown? Or was it truly that remarkable?

How big a miracle? Is there such thing as a little miracle?

 

[Bure All Day]

I disagree. The Czechs/Slovaks were good.

not at the same calibre as the russians, not even close, especially back then.

Russia was a country of over 100 million people, czechs/slovaks didn't have near the pool of talent

 

[Yamaguchi*]

not at the same calibre as the russians, not even close, especially back then.

Russia was a country of over 100 million people, czechs/slovaks didn't have near the pool of talent

Not even close? I think Czechoslovakia has beaten the Soviets quiet a few times in late 70s.

And what does the population have to do with the national team's performance?

 

[GameEight]

I disagree. The Czechs/Slovaks were good.

Actually, as I recall, everyone thought the Czechs were good going into the tournament. Probably number 2, as throughout the 70s in Europe the general perception was that they were always a bit better than the Swedes, the clear number 3.

If I recall correctly though, 1980 was when the Czechs started to decline or under perform, and it took them a long time before they got their game back, possibly the mid-90s.

Of course, you are right that the Czechs were 'good'. But I do think that their reputation going into Lake Placid was inflated, based on the previous decade.