How big of a miracle was the "Miracle on Ice?"

[Hardyvan123]

It happened at the peak of the Cold War - when it was a legitimate possibility that Russia would launch missiles over the arctic into North America.

not sure about 1980 being the peak of the cold war, the cuban missle crisis was probably more of the peak.

But either way it's overblown in American myth and legend.

they didn't win the gold till the next game and it was only 1 game.

In a series the event wouldn't have happened.

 

[Hardyvan123]

It put hockey on the map in the USA. I cannot stress enough what it did for the game in our country.
IMHO it was the greatest sporting event of the century in the USA, and we had little chance against the Soviet machine going in. The ruskies outplayed us for much of the game but all that matters is the final score and it truly was a 'miracle'. Denigrating the result by some posters and belittling it shows lack of historical proportion.

It's true that it did mark a turning point for American Hockey and made hockey a dream for more young boys but the WHA already had done a lot of the heavy work in giving players with dream a professional dream and a chance to earn a living which might not have happened.

In 71 the year before the WHA there were exactly 6 americnas playing in the NHL, none of them in a very prominent role.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=points

By 79 it was up to 43 players

http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=points

And in 80 after the WHA folded it was up to 61 after the NHL absorbed the WHA.

 

[Killion]

But either way it's overblown in American myth and legend.

Oh, no way Hv. Absolutely seminal moment in the history of sport & the game (1960's US Gold Medal win at Squaw Valley long forgotten), its history in the US, echoes still ringing to this day. Gave credibility to the NCAA, that American players were somehow sub-standard to Canadians, dramatically illustrating how hockey is a team sport and that when coalescing & coming together as a team, as a unit, the best can be beaten. Just because Canada wasnt in the picture in 1980 should in no way detract or take away from so magnificent an effort of selflessness & sacrifice. That win did wonders for the growth & development of the game, validated the college route as an option to Major Junior.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Oh, no way Hv. Absolutely seminal moment in the history of sport & the game (1960's US Gold Medal win at Squaw Valley long forgotten), its history in the US, echoes still ringing to this day. Gave credibility to the NCAA, that American players were somehow sub-standard to Canadians, dramatically illustrating how hockey is a team sport and that when coalescing & coming together as a team, as a unit, the best can be beaten. Just because Canada wasnt in the picture in 1980 should in no way detract or take away from so magnificent an effort of selflessness & sacrifice. That win did wonders for the growth & development of the game, validated the college route as an option to Major Junior.

It was a major win but it really has become the myth and legend, like I said most Americans, and heck alot of hockey people who weren't there think that was the gold medal game.

It is a major point in the growth of the game but Americans were already increasing their stock, by quite a bit, in the 70's in the NHL and WHA, along with their major college system.

 

[Big Phil]

It was a major win but it really has become the myth and legend, like I said most Americans, and heck alot of hockey people who weren't there think that was the gold medal game.

It is a major point in the growth of the game but Americans were already increasing their stock, by quite a bit, in the 70's in the NHL and WHA, along with their major college system.

The biggest thing forgotten about that game is that it was viewed on tape delay. I guess it shows you that no one had much faith in the Americans against the Ruskies. The only issue is that if you intentionally stayed away from the TV all day and then turned it on to watch the tape delay there was a celebration in the background that sort of spoiled the result for you. But this is a game that has aged well. I still get goosebumps when I hear Al Michael's call at the end, to this day.

And I think that a lot of the core of the 1996 US World Cup team could point to Lake Placid in 1980 as inspiration for their careers. Maybe that's why there is such a lull in top notch American players now, because there hasn't been a moment with such impact for American hockey since.

 

[Mr Atoz*]

It was a major win but it really has become the myth and legend, like I said most Americans, and heck alot of hockey people who weren't there think that was the gold medal game.

Then include yourself in the misinformed because in those days there wasn't a gold medal game. All games were assigned points and the most points won the gold medal. The final game for the US was Sunday Feb 24, 1980 against Finland. The US trailed 2-1 going into the third period and scored three goals in the third wining 4-2. The US was the only undefeated team in the tournament, tying their first game against Sweden and winning every other game.

 

[Killion]

And I think that a lot of the core of the 1996 US World Cup team could point to Lake Placid in 1980 as inspiration for their careers. Maybe that's why there is such a lull in top notch American players now, because there hasn't been a moment with such impact for American hockey since.

Oh absolutely. Numerous American players have pointed to that 1980 win serving as their own personal inspiration for getting involved in playing the game in the first place. People talk about how the Gretzky to LA was some sort of huge deal, stimulus for the growth of the popularity of the game in non-traditional markets. Well, in comparison to the 1980 Miracle, "The Trade" pales in comparison.

 

[Hardyvan123]

Then include yourself in the misinformed because in those days there wasn't a gold medal game. All games were assigned points and the most points won the gold medal. The final game for the US was Sunday Feb 24, 1980 against Finland. The US trailed 2-1 going into the third period and scored three goals in the third wining 4-2. The US was the only undefeated team in the tournament, tying their first game against Sweden and winning every other game.

It wasn't the deciding game, they still had another game after that right?

Or is my memory failing me here?

 

[Hardyvan123]

The biggest thing forgotten about that game is that it was viewed on tape delay. I guess it shows you that no one had much faith in the Americans against the Ruskies. The only issue is that if you intentionally stayed away from the TV all day and then turned it on to watch the tape delay there was a celebration in the background that sort of spoiled the result for you. But this is a game that has aged well. I still get goosebumps when I hear Al Michael's call at the end, to this day.

And I think that a lot of the core of the 1996 US World Cup team could point to Lake Placid in 1980 as inspiration for their careers. Maybe that's why there is such a lull in top notch American players now, because there hasn't been a moment with such impact for American hockey since.

What lull in talent?

Look at the strength and depth of the postional talent from the US today.

Not to mention the goalies and quite probably the 1st pick in the draft this year as well.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=points

 

[Killion]

It wasn't the deciding game, they still had another game after that right? Or is my memory failing me here?

Quite right. They went on to beat Finland for the Gold Medal. Doesnt matter though Hv. That game against Ivan was the Gold Medal Game. The Soviets had won practically everything internationally since 1954 and here, a bunch of no-name College kids take them right down. Yes. A thing of beauty it was. I very much dislike bringing up issues of age or ageism, but unless you saw it, understood its import, the times, its difficult to appreciate what it meant not just to the US but also to Canada & Canadian hockey fans.

 

[GameEight]

It put hockey on the map in the USA. I cannot stress enough what it did for the game in our country.
IMHO it was the greatest sporting event of the century in the USA.

Well, lets' ask another question then, what other *unifying American sporting moments* were there in the 20th century.

I can only think of two, when the Americans lost their first Olympic basketball game in 1972 at Munich.

Then probably in 1936, when Jesse Owens stuffed Hitler in his own back yard...

As for the guy here who is so deluded to think that Canadians are actually jealous of the Miracle on Ice, I would believe that the folks at Sports Illustrated recalled Owens when they made their call regarding the biggest story in US sports in the entire (vs half) century. It certainly was bigger than Munich 72, which I vividly recall and is the only US event that has come close to Lake Placid in my time, which is to say, 'since'.

Sure, there have been many big moments or events in American sports, but hardly any where the whole of the USA gets behind 'their' guy because he's American. Ali v Fraser - doesn't qualify. Nicklaus at the Masters, - doesn't count either. Mr. October, nada nada...

Big moments in the US experience seem to show up in different settings, ones that typically don't rally the whole nation like big hockey games do in Canada. Rocky 4 (v the Russian) had more patriotic emotional impact than almost all American sporting events in the 20th century.

What else can we come up with here, folks?

 

[Killion]

What else can we come up with here, folks?

That 1980 Miracle on Ice Ranks #1, 2 or 3 on numerous polls, be it Sports Illustrated, ESPN or whatever. You mentioned Jesse Owens, thats up there, Secretariat in 73, the World Series in 75, the Thrilla in Manila, Jackie Robinson, Bob Beamon, Rocky Marciano, Babe Ruth, tonnes of seminal unforgettable moments but that hockey game, stahp looking. Thats it right there.... Though none 20th Century, that game still surpasses 2004 when the Red Sox broke their Curse. 2008 with Michael Phelps, Tiger Woods & Super Bowl XLII when the Giants beat undefeated New England.

 

[GameEight]

That 1980 Miracle on Ice Ranks #1, 2 or 3 on numerous polls, be it Sports Illustrated, ESPN or whatever. You mentioned Jesse Owens, thats up there, Secretariat in 73, the World Series in 75, the Thrilla in Manila, Jackie Robinson, Bob Beamon, Rocky Marciano, Babe Ruth, tonnes of seminal unforgettable moments but that hockey game, stahp looking. Thats it right there.... Though none 20th Century, that game still surpasses 2004 when the Red Sox broke their Curse. 2008 with Michael Phelps, Tiger Woods & Super Bowl XLII when the Giants beat undefeated New England.

Not my question though, Killer...

I'm talking about events that brought the Americana out of Americans... Munich hoops certainly did. Jesse Owens surely would have. 1980 Miracle on Ice, beyond question... What else is there that falls under this umbrella?

I would say that the Dream Team in 92 did, in a novel sense, but there was no urgency to that run in Barcelona. The 2010 Gold Medal Game at Vancouver was big, the second largest television audience in the USA to watch a hockey game - probably bigger than 92 in terms of nationalism and urgency or uncertainty...

 

[Killion]

... I'm talking about events that brought the Americana out of Americans...

... 20th Century exclusively? All of those individuals & events did. Y'know, sports is a lot like pop music, disposable, temporary, transient. No one really cares what you did for me yesterday, what are you doing for me right now, tomorrow, next week, month & year? Yesterdays a penny spent, records made to be broken, the bar raised. As the Miracle on Ice was a Team rather than Individual effort in comparison to other Olympic Moments, perhaps the closest comparison that might be drawn and for entirely different reasons but of equal import & impact, for strength of resonance amongst Americans would be the solidarity of the US Boxing Team at Munich in 1972.

 

[GameEight]

... perhaps the closest comparison that might be drawn and for entirely different reasons but of equal import & impact, for strength of resonance amongst Americans would be the solidarity of the US Boxing Team at Munich in 1972.

Could you mean the boxing team in 76? I don't recall the USA boxing team in 72 standing out, but the one at Montreal certainly did, surprising everyone I don't think it galvanized people as much as the hoops game in 72 did, but one could make a good argument. It was USA v the Cubans in 76, and the Yanks were underdogs. Lots of flash on that team, but to me, the best fighter was not Sugar Ray, but Howard Davis, soooo smoooooth. As I recall, the Olympic people agreed.

 

[Butch 19]

not sure about 1980 being the peak of the cold war, the cuban missle crisis was probably more of the peak.

But either way it's overblown in American myth and legend..

says a poster from vancouver...

And please do tell, which USA wins are worthy of the appropriate amount of "myth and legend."

they didn't win the gold till the next game and it was only 1 game.

In a series the event wouldn't have happened.

So what?

 

[PanniniClaus]

What lull in talent?

Look at the strength and depth of the postional talent from the US today.

Not to mention the goalies and quite probably the 1st pick in the draft this year as well.

http://www.hockey-reference.com/pla...val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=points

I don't understand the lull part either. They are producing talent at a prodigious rate.

 

[blamebettman*]

That 1980 Miracle on Ice Ranks #1, 2 or 3 on numerous polls, be it Sports Illustrated, ESPN or whatever. You mentioned Jesse Owens, thats up there, Secretariat in 73, the World Series in 75, the Thrilla in Manila, Jackie Robinson, Bob Beamon, Rocky Marciano, Babe Ruth, tonnes of seminal unforgettable moments but that hockey game, stahp looking. Thats it right there.... Though none 20th Century, that game still surpasses 2004 when the Red Sox broke their Curse. 2008 with Michael Phelps, Tiger Woods & Super Bowl XLII when the Giants beat undefeated New England.

how quickly we forget, but this is probably right on miracle on ice level

 

[Killion]

Could you mean the boxing team in 76?

Nope, sorry, got my years mixed up there. Very little recollection of the period between about 1967, the Summer of Love & MTV in 1980. No, Im thinking about 1968 in Mexico City when all of the Black American athletes when collecting their medals on the Podium raised their fists in Solidarity. The Black Power Salute. That African Americans had had enough of domestic racism. Like I said, entirely different set of circumstances to the Miracle on Ice in 80, but similar in that it had political over-tones, that the team members were unified (albeit by colour), but that enough was enough. And not to sound trite or disrespectful to those protests in 68, they wanted to slay the dragon of racism, Team USA in 80 slayed the dragon of Soviet Commie Hypocrisy on the ice. Both events pulled at Americans heart strings. Made them proud. Buy the World a Coke. Savvy?

 

[Mayor Bee]

not sure about 1980 being the peak of the cold war, the cuban missle crisis was probably more of the peak.

The United States and USSR came close to a full-out war twice from 1945-91. The first was in October 1962, with the Cuban Missile Crisis. The second was in November 1983, with tensions building for over a year and culminating in the Able Archer war simulation.

From a public grandstanding standpoint, the late 1970s and specifically the Carter administration may well have been as frigid as the Cold War ever got. If it's not at the top, it's awfully close to the top.

 

[Hardyvan123]

That 1980 Miracle on Ice Ranks #1, 2 or 3 on numerous polls, be it Sports Illustrated, ESPN or whatever. You mentioned Jesse Owens, thats up there, Secretariat in 73, the World Series in 75, the Thrilla in Manila, Jackie Robinson, Bob Beamon, Rocky Marciano, Babe Ruth, tonnes of seminal unforgettable moments but that hockey game, stahp looking. Thats it right there.... Though none 20th Century, that game still surpasses 2004 when the Red Sox broke their Curse. 2008 with Michael Phelps, Tiger Woods & Super Bowl XLII when the Giants beat undefeated New England.

I have no doubt this is true but all possible answers are listed which is entirely different than asking which sporting event is your defining moment or whatever question you want to make with no answers listed.

My bet is that while "the miracle on ice" would be one of the top things listed, possibly, the numbers would be quite low.

It's part of them myth building, my bet is that most Americans who start playing hockey do so because their friends do so or their dads or families watch hockey, there are very few " hey I saw this on TV, the miracle and felt inspired to take up hockey" guys in reality.

It's a pivotal event to be sure but part of it is the myth building that takes place after the event.

 

[Hanji]

Hardyvan123 is somewhat right. As hockey fans we tend to mythologize and overrate Miracle as being the most influential and meaningful event in American sports history.

All great moments transcend the sport played. Miracle is our greatest patriotic feel good story. A symbolic victory of good over evil, democracy over communism, David slaying Goliath, political overtones and all. It raised our spirits in a time of political and economic hardship. We felt proud to be American again.

But events like the day Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier, or Ali refusing to be drafted go beyond symbolism. These are examples of athletics actually affecting the legal, political, racial and social mechanisms of America for the good. It's events like these that are the most influential in American sports.

 

[yave1964]

Not my question though, Killer...

I'm talking about events that brought the Americana out of Americans... Munich hoops certainly did. Jesse Owens surely would have. 1980 Miracle on Ice, beyond question... What else is there that falls under this umbrella?

I would say that the Dream Team in 92 did, in a novel sense, but there was no urgency to that run in Barcelona. The 2010 Gold Medal Game at Vancouver was big, the second largest television audience in the USA to watch a hockey game - probably bigger than 92 in terms of nationalism and urgency or uncertainty...

I am not anti Canadian, the wife and I love the beautiful country, we get up there at least once every couple of years.
MY point had nothing to do with international moments, it had to do with iconic moments, moments that unified the Country, not against the world but drawn together by a sporting moment. The whole country remembers the Yankees Dodgers 1977 World Series, it presented the best of baseball, the Joe Namath super bowl, the Willis Reed Basketball ball, moments in time that had nothing to do with the international stage but had to do with capturing the hearts and minds of the entire Country, Michael Jordan playoff moments, Curt chilling and his bloody sock, moments that grabbed us as a people and were not just talked about around the water cooler for a day or a week but for years to come. I am sure I have missed dozens, I am not trying to make a comprehensive list.
My point is The Miracle game is IMHO the moment that defines such moments for the United States, in the same way as the Summit series or the 1970s Canadiens or Patrick Roy and his rookie post season run or Ken Dryden doing the same thing a decade and a half before define the Canadian scene. The Miracle moment occurred in the right country a the right time to bring us together and be remembered forever not for what it did on the world stage but for what it did for us as a country. Sorry if that was a bit hokey.

 

[Killion]

These are examples of athletics actually affecting the legal, political, racial and social mechanisms of America for the good. It's events like these that are the most influential in American sports.

Absolutely. Seminal moments that transcend just the accomplishments.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

After losing to Poland at the 1976 World championships (discounting games against Czechoslovakia, Sweden & Canada with NHL players), the USSR played 19 games at the WHC, Canada Cup & Olympics up until their game with Finland in 1980. They scored 171 goals, allowed 38. In 1140 minutes, they trailed for 21:28. In the 120 minutes they played before meeting the US, they trailed for 64:19. An comparison would be a Tennis champion who has never dropped a set to an unseeded opponent at a Grand Slam. Then one year he needs two come from behind five set wins against unseeded opponents before losing in the SF to another unseeded opponenet.