How bad is the morale of the fanbase right now?

[zeke]

Aww... they hurt your feelings. So sad.

You DEMAND that they do well... every single game. 82 wins. Or you are going to tell everybody how mad you are. Throw some waffles around too.

Nobody is correct about throwing a temper tantrum over a couple of regular season losses. It's short sighted, to the point of being childish, and DEMANDING that they win every game, or you will throw a temper tantrum is ridiculously entitled....

Get some perspective, it's a long season, and there will be ups and downs. Nobody should be too excited about a bunch of wins, or a few losses. They'll comfortably make the playoffs, and then go from there. But some of the reactions after games 6 and 7 after this season were over the top, and frankly hilarious. Fans shouldn't be upset after games 6 and 7 of a season, after their best player missed three of those games due to injury, and wasn't at their best after resuming play. Perspective allows one to understand that this is a process, and a long season. Some people even said that the regular season results don't matter, and then threw their waffles after 6 and 7 regular season games of an 82 game schedule. What is it, do these games matter, or not?

82-0, perfect in the playoffs, or the children are going to throw their toys out of their pram. It's laughable.

 

[zeke]

Yes, 24 and 25. Like I said, prime years. What would you say are the typical players prime years? I'd say 23-28.

(Note, in making your response, please don't point out very rare exceptions/outliers of players who had their best years in their 30's).

How old were Mario, Yzerman, Sakic, Ovechkin, McDavid, MacKinnon, etc when they won their first cups?

 

[egd27]

How old were Mario, Yzerman, Sakic, Ovechkin, McDavid, MacKinnon, etc when they won their first cups?

So our guys shouldn't have been compared to Crosby, Malkin, Kane & Toews from those Chicago and Pittsburgh Cup teams?

I must have missed that post, good to know

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

I'm a fairly positive fan overall but was essentially as down as I've ever been after the playoffs, in the offseason and even leading up to the season. Was pretty checked out.

And yes I agree, it is all about what happens in the playoffs. 100%. But I'm also too much of a fan of the team and the sport to be completely "I'm not going to care until the playoffs." I just can't. So yes, the start of a new season with renewed hope excites me. A 5-game winning streak excites me. I don't care that it could mean nothing and I can easily be let down again come playoffs. Part of being a fan is having hope and being excited by anything positive surrounding the team.

And I'm no kid, no I wasn't around for Ballard and was too young at the time to remember the Gilmour era. So ya maybe I'm greener in terms of decades of being let down. But I just can't be all "bah humbug until playoffs" and not be excited during the regular season. I'm too much of a fan I guess. You should be able to allow yourself to be excited at any time you want to be, rather than painting the timing of your excitement into a box. If that's the case, maybe being a fan of this franchise is no longer for you.

Well said. I like hockey too much, to not care about the regular season. I watch hockey because I enjoy it, not because it's an obligation.

 

[ShaneFalco]

shocking

 

[ShaneFalco]

So our guys shouldn't have been compared to Crosby, Malkin, Kane & Toews from those Chicago and Pittsburgh Cup teams?

I must have missed that post, good to know

Same "arguments" over and over again trying to compare to other teams when their failures and collapses are no comparison whatesoever.

 

[Nylanderthal]

So our guys shouldn't have been compared to Crosby, Malkin, Kane & Toews from those Chicago and Pittsburgh Cup teams?

I must have missed that post, good to know

Those two teams were always the highest standard to hold up against, but are also for the most part the outlier. Hockey and all of pro sports is littered with teams who reached ultimate team success after their core had their “most productive” seasons.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

How old were Mario, Yzerman, Sakic, Ovechkin, McDavid, MacKinnon, etc when they won their first cups?

What do you think are the typical "prime" years of an nhl player?

 

[Dekes For Days]

What would you say are the typical players prime years? I'd say 23-28.

Within that range, you've only seen the results of Matthews/Marner's age 23 season, so I'm not sure how you've simultaneously come to the conclusion that "the core are well into their primes".

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Within that range, you've only seen the results of Matthews/Marner's age 23 season, so I'm not sure how you've simultaneously come to the conclusion that "the core are well into their primes".

Players have a very short "prime years" window.

When players are IN their primes, "too young" shouldn't be an excuse. They most certainly weren't paid as "young players" who are just "starting to figure things out".

My 0riginal point was that leaf fans weren't angry after every loss when we acknowledged our core players were teenagers. But they're now in their primes. Age should no longer be an excuse.

 

[Legion34]

Same "arguments" over and over again trying to compare to other teams when their failures and collapses are no comparison whatesoever.

just to be clear….

1.) not making the playoffs is somehow better than a collapse?

2.) do you not remember the red wings? The caps? The pens.

the rag tag leafs beat both the pens and the wings.

 

[zeke]

What do you think are the typical "prime" years of an nhl player?

I think it's clear you don't give up on elite talent at age 23-25, no?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I think it's clear you don't give up on elite talent at age 23-25, no?

Where did I say "give up on"?

My argument was that leaf fans gave them a break when they were teenagers. But now they're in their prime's and fans are rightly upset when we see habits that seem to result in those playoff losses.

Why can't any of your ilk answer the simple question? What do you think a typical nhl players "prime" years are?

 

[zeke]

Where did I say "give up on"?

My argument was that leaf fans gave them a break when they were teenagers. But now they're in their prime's and fans are rightly upset when we see habits that seem to result in those playoff losses.

Why can't any of your ilk answer the simple question? What do you think a typical nhl players "prime" years are?

Why did you think your idea of "prime years" is the relevant question?

Isn't "age when winning cup" more relevant to our current situation?

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Why did you think your idea of "prime years" is the relevant question?

Isn't "age when winning cup" more relevant to our current situation?

Some players win cups before their primes. Some during their primes. Some after their primes.

It's a weird argument you're making. You're saying it's more likely for a player to win a cup when they're past their prime? We just need to suffer through these lousy "prime" years, and then when our players are declining... THAT'S prime cup time boys.

What do you think are the typical players "prime" years?

 

[Gary Nylund]

Nothing has changed for me. They still have to prove something when it matters. I'm a slave to this team at this point so I think I'll be watching pretty much every game and I'll enjoy it depending on the game. My morale is still low though. Sorry, we lost to Montreal in the first series since I was 10 years old with a 3-1 series lead. Montre-freaking-al. It doesn't just go away.

Yup, me too. My morale is a bit better then I thought it would be TBH. I think that might be because I thought we'd be worse this season for sure after losing Hyman and Bogo and since the goal is to win the cup and we couldn't even win one series last season, that seemed like a very remote possibility. But now, it seems like our young D might be taking huge steps forward this season and if that happens, I like our chances a lot better than I did.

I'm a fairly positive fan overall but was essentially as down as I've ever been after the playoffs, in the offseason and even leading up to the season. Was pretty checked out.

And yes I agree, it is all about what happens in the playoffs. 100%. But I'm also too much of a fan of the team and the sport to be completely "I'm not going to care until the playoffs." I just can't. So yes, the start of a new season with renewed hope excites me. A 5-game winning streak excites me. I don't care that it could mean nothing and I can easily be let down again come playoffs. Part of being a fan is having hope and being excited by anything positive surrounding the team.

And I'm no kid, no I wasn't around for Ballard and was too young at the time to remember the Gilmour era. So ya maybe I'm greener in terms of decades of being let down. But I just can't be all "bah humbug until playoffs" and not be excited during the regular season. I'm too much of a fan I guess. You should be able to allow yourself to be excited at any time you want to be, rather than painting the timing of your excitement into a box. If that's the case, maybe being a fan of this franchise is no longer for you.

Agreed, nice post!

Well said. I like hockey too much, to not care about the regular season. I watch hockey because I enjoy it, not because it's an obligation.

Absolutely. I've said many time that playoffs are what it's all about and playoff success it what really matters to me. That doesn't mean I don't still watch every game I can and enjoy it when we play well and suffer when we play like crap. Hell that was true for me even when we had crappy teams that had no shot at the playoffs, it's just the way it always is.

Some players win cups before their primes. Some during their primes. Some after their primes.

It's a weird argument you're making. You're saying it's more likely for a player to win a cup when they're past their prime? We just need to suffer through these lousy "prime" years, and then when our players are declining... THAT'S prime cup time boys.

What do you think are the typical players "prime" years?

LMAO, that's hilarious.

Not sure who you're talking to but I'm with you. I'll bet the person is talking guys like Ovechkin etc. and I've said it before, I liked it a lot better when we were comparing our team to Chicago instead of WSH.

And isn't it strange how so often, people can't or won't answer the simplest of questions? Another one I like is "how many more playoff failures will it take before you stop having unwavering faith in the path we're on". I've asked that (paraphrasing) a few times and not one person has given an answer. It's almost like some people are in a cult or something, question anything Dubas does and they freak out on you.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Yup, me too. My morale is a bit better then I thought it would be TBH. I think that might be because I thought we'd be worse this season for sure after losing Hyman and Bogo and since the goal is to win the cup and we couldn't even win one series last season, that seemed like a very remote possibility. But now, it seems like our young D might be taking huge steps forward this season and if that happens, I like our chances a lot better than I did.



Agreed, nice post!



Absolutely. I've said many time that playoffs are what it's all about and playoff success it what really matters to me. That doesn't mean I don't still watch every game I can and enjoy it when we play well and suffer when we play like crap. Hell that was true for me even when we had crappy teams that had no shot at the playoffs, it's just the way it always is.



LMAO, that's hilarious.

Not sure who you're talking to but I'm with you. I'll bet the person is talking guys like Ovechkin etc. and I've said it before, I liked it a lot better when we were comparing our team to Chicago instead of WSH.

And isn't it strange how so often, people can't or won't answer the simplest of questions? Another one I like is "how many more playoff failures will it take before you stop having unwavering faith in the path we're on". I've asked that (paraphrasing) a few times and not one person has given an answer. It's almost like some people are in a cult or something, question anything Dubas does and they freak out on you.

After the Columbus series, I asked the usual suspects that question. I was universally told that if the leafs lose in the first round to an underdog again next year, then that's it.

But no, it still wasn't. Same excuses recycled.

 

[kb]

After the Columbus series, I asked the usual suspects that question. I was universally told that if the leafs lose in the first round to an underdog again next year, then that's it.

But no, it still wasn't. Same excuses recycled.

No one is making you stay here or watch them. Taking it personally is hilarious. And sad.

 

[Gary Nylund]

After the Columbus series, I asked the usual suspects that question. I was universally told that if the leafs lose in the first round to an underdog again next year, then that's it.

But no, it still wasn't. Same excuses recycled.

Haha if it's the same people (seems likely) then I guess that explains why they won't answer any more. The unwavering faith in the face of mounting failures is a bit scary, reminds me of the old cult classic The Stepford Wives.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

No one is making you stay here or watch them. Taking it personally is hilarious. And sad.

And nobody's making you defend mediocrity/laziness/indifference (ie, the maple leafs core)... yet here you are.

It's a discussion forum.

The leafs are on a good streak. But this happens every year. The way our stars played at the beginning of the year is precisely how they always play in the playoffs. People are discussing it. They're frustrated. They're angry.

Nothing here is new. A team that habitually underachieves is going to frustrate its fanbase.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

And isn't it strange how so often, people can't or won't answer the simplest of questions? Another one I like is "how many more playoff failures will it take before you stop having unwavering faith in the path we're on". I've asked that (paraphrasing) a few times and not one person has given an answer. It's almost like some people are in a cult or something, question anything Dubas does and they freak out on you.

People just want to be hopeful.

And nobody wants a tear down.

The key question is: can this core win ?

I feel I’ve seen enough and would rather change things than continue on the same path.

The only moveable contract that could change the team enough is Marner. I guess Nylander, but I’m not keen on that.

 

[Gary Nylund]

People just want to be hopeful.

And nobody wants a tear down.

The key question is: can this core win ?

I feel I’ve seen enough and would rather change things than continue on the same path.

The only moveable contract that could change the team enough is Marner. I guess Nylander, but I’m not keen on that.

That's how I felt this summer. Marner would fetch a huge haul, the core pieces are good but so many forwards, I'd feel better if we more like TB where an elite goalie and an elite Dman were two of the guys getting the big bucks. And the main problem is that we no cap room to support the core better. It's not impossible that these guys get it done, there's never any way to be sure what the right move is but yeah, I was all for trading Marner. The progress of Sandin/Liljegren has me more hopeful than I was earlier, we'll see.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

The progress of Sandin/Liljegren has me more hopeful than I was earlier, we'll see.

Optimistic progress for sure.

To me, if this team doesn’t have an absolute dominant power play, it’s just a sign the mix doesn’t work.

Campbell can save this season by staying healthy and standing on his head.

 

[Gabriel426]

As of today, this core can't win in the playoffs. But same were said about MJ-can he leads the Bulls to Championship or can Ovie do it before they actually done it.
It is normal to ask this question bc they really have not won any series in the playoffs over the past 5 seasons.
If anything, I think it is a compliment to guys like AM, MM, JT, Willie and Reilly. Bc you don't hear anyone asked can ROR leads a team to a Cup like ever.
The talents are there but can this group win in the playoffs? It seemed like there are always excuses for this core failures.
Like, bad matchups, the other team is better, insane opposing goaltending, not getting bounces, refs, coaching, fatigue, converting chances, depth scoring.....
These excuses can be apply to every single playoffs teams in every playoffs except for the Cup Champs. Cup champs just go out and win.
Until the players start producing in the playoffs and getting the Wins in the playoffs, they will always be questions about them. Also, these questions won't go away by winning a round or two, it will only go away when they win the Cup. Then a new set of questions will arise, Can they repeat, can they do it again....

 

[Gary Nylund]

Optimistic progress for sure.

To me, if this team doesn’t have an absolute dominant power play, it’s just a sign the mix doesn’t work.

Campbell can save this season by staying healthy and standing in his head.

What concerns me the most is what has happened the last 4 years when it gets down to one game to decide the series. We just don't show up and I'm at a loss to explain it. And until we win a series (at least one), it's just not possible for me not to be a bit worried about that no matter how good all kinds of fancy stats look.