How Amazing Is It That Gretzky Has More Assists than Anyone Has Total Points?

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

maybe the fact that he played on stacked team probably helped him a little

You are young I bet.

His first linemates, if I remember correctly, were Dave Lumley and Brett Callighen. Maybe Blair Macdonald, who scored over 90 points. Who were those guys, I bet you are asking. Exactly.

Gretzky made the guys who came to the Oilers great.

What you guys always overlook is that when you have a player like Gretzky, that team instantly becomes stacked.

 

[Wheatking]

yeah, didn't he have almost no one when he got traded to LA?

Just look at Bernie Nicholls to see what Gretzky can do.

The three years before Gretzky became a King Nicholls put up 36 goal/97 point, 33 goal/81 point and 32 goal/78 point seasons. Then Gretzky shows up and he has a 70 goal/150 point season. The next season he was traded to the Rangers. Before the trade he had 27 goals/75 points in 47 games(46 goal/128 point pace) with the Kings and after the trade he had 12 goals/37 points in 32 games(30 goal/92 point pace) with the Rangers.

 

[pdd]

Today on HFBoards:

Wayne Gretzky was pretty good.

"The Pretty Good One"?

Maybe that could be Brent's nickname.

 

[jigglysquishy]

yeah, didn't he have almost no one when he got traded to LA?

He took them from 4th last to 4th best.

Score 168 points.

The only real talent on the team was Bernie Nicholls and Luc Robitaille. He just made everyone better.


In the '93 playoffs Gretzky put the Kings on his back, scored 40 points (next best on his team were 25, 22 and 17) and damn near won them the cup.

 

[sayheykid]

I think I may have officially just had that moment where 32 feels depressingly old and this board seems annoyingly young.

 

[yada]

the other stat that amazes me is gretzky averaged 200 points a year for 6 consecutive seasons and no other player has reached 200 in a season

 

[pdd]

Just look at Bernie Nicholls to see what Gretzky can do.

The three years before Gretzky became a King Nicholls put up 36 goal/97 point, 33 goal/81 point and 32 goal/78 point seasons. Then Gretzky shows up and he has a 70 goal/150 point season. The next season he was traded to the Rangers. Before the trade he had 27 goals/75 points in 47 games(46 goal/128 point pace) with the Kings and after the trade he had 12 goals/37 points in 32 games(30 goal/92 point pace) with the Rangers.

The year Nicholls was traded, Gretzky scored 26-70-96 in 73 at ES and 10-30-40 on the PP. I don't have the pre/post trade numbers, so I can't tell you exact stats.

Nicholls in LA posted 8-22-30 on the PP and 19-25-44 at ES in 47 games. Nicholls and Gretzky only played together on the PP, o if you assume Gretzky created all of Nicholls' points, then Gretzky had a pretty terrible year because it means he had 10 PP points in 26 games after Nicholls left, which is about 60% of Nicholls' PP pace during his time in LA that year. At ES, it's obvious Gretzky was scoring at a higher pace. But Nicholls was just under PPG, which is only about 10% above his peak seasons pre-Gretzky. And that can be explained by the simple fact of playing against second-tier competition.

How much of an effect did Gretzky really have on Nicholls? Let's look at Nicholls' two peak seasons and the PP/ES ratio. In his pre-Gretzky years, he scored 25 of 82 total goals on the PP, with 4 SH. With Gretzky, it was 28 of the same 82 total goals, with 0 SH. Almost identical. Nicholls had 36 PP assists of 115 in the two pre-Gretzky years, to 37 of 128 with Gretzky.

Conclusion: Wayne Gretzky did not make Bernie Nicholls a better scorer at all. Being on the second line BEHIND Wayne Gretzky made Bernie Nicholls score at a faster pace.

 

[Coopers Gum]

I'm still trying to figure this out:

 

[Aaaaaaaaaaaaa]

I think I may have officially just had that moment where 32 feels depressingly old and this board seems annoyingly young.

Try being 42 and listening to crap like "Erik Karlsson is better than Bobby Orr".

No offence to young Erik, but that kind of stuff just hurts my old head.

 

[Roo Mad Bro]

The GOAT.

And it's not even close.

 

[McPuritania]

I'm still trying to figure this out:

Brutal.

The stat goes to 100, well Gretz should be 105. Not kidding.

 

[Valic]

Brutal.

The stat goes to 100, well Gretz should be 105. Not kidding.

Game is made in Vancouver. 'Nuff said.

 

[DKQ]

I'm still trying to figure this out:

Sort of make sense. That overall stat is based on a composite average of the players individual attributes (speed, agressiveness, slapshot power, balance, etc.), and Gretzky wasn't all that terrific at any thing that didn't involve putting a puck in the back of a net (evasiveness maybe, but there isn't a stat for that). Lemieux and Crosby are both better athletes and have better all-round games.

 

[Machinehead]

I'm still trying to figure this out:

The NHL rating system is so ****ed up that it's become possible for a better player to have a lower overall. And I don't mean better in real life, I mean better in the game.

If you go into their player details and look at each individual skill, Gretzky has superior ratings in an overwhelming majority of skills, but because of the stupid star system (Gretzky only has 2 stars in "physicality" as opposed to Crosby's 4) he ends up with a lower overall.

 

[Mach12]

I'm still trying to figure this out:

Stuff like this is why Crosby is the most annoying hockey player on this history of this planet.

 

[jpchabby]

To this absolutely ridiculous record, add this:

He's also the greatest goal scorer of all-time.

So basically, even if you took away all his goals, he would be the greatest point producer of all-time. But he also has the most goals.

Insane.

 

[18Hossa]

In NHL 13 some guy in LA scored 95 goals...

 

[Hemsky001]

You've noticed that very early. haha
What else to say.. it's pretty amazing.
They don't call him "The Great One" for nothing.

 

[Spectaculard]

Anyone who hasn't known that before this thread should feel shame.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

Gretzky padded his own stats on the bench a couple of times.

I've seen him get credited with an assist even though he wasn't on the ice.

This old thing? Players get assists all the time from the bench. You pass a puck to a guy then go to the bench. He passes the puck to someone else and they score. The result? You get a well-deserved secondary assist from the bench.

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

I'm still trying to figure this out:

The problem is that the stats only go to 100. Mario Lemieux had better skills than Gretzky at most things. But if Mario's passing was 100, Gretzky's should have been 150. I'm not joking.

 

[Samzilla]

Pfft, everybody knows Forsberg was better.

jokes, #hflogic

I've always thought, if I could choose between Lemieux or Gretzky, for multiple iterations I'd take Gretzky every time. If it was a choice between the two for one game only with each of them at their absolute peak, I'd take Lemieux.

 

[King Woodballs]

best
player
ever

E
V
E
R

 

[Mansfield]

pretty amazing

 

[MadLuke]

The problem is that the stats only go to 100. Mario Lemieux had better skills than Gretzky at most things. But if Mario's passing was 100, Gretzky's should have been 150. I'm not joking.

Stats max if not the problem, the problem is giving to easily 100 to player.

They must start by giving the stats of the best (can be 100, do not have to be) and make sure that the other are lower if they were not as good.

if the stats go to 150 instead of 100, you still have the issue.

Give 100 to gretzky hockey sense and vision, 100 to passing.

Then make sure adam oates and Lemieux have high value but less than him.

Also make sure than when you calculate overall player value to not count all value equal, passing is worth 5 times the faceoff stats for an examples.