How aggressive should the Leafs be at the deadline? Whimper or All In?

[thewave]

The team has failed to win the cup thus far, but the contracts were not mistakes. They've been our best players, regular season and playoffs, and we'd be in a much worse place if we didn't have them.

What trade puts over the top to go deep?

Is this the year?

What can we add?

Do we bring all the core back?

 

[ULF_55]

The team has failed to win the cup thus far, but the contracts were not mistakes. They've been our best players, regular season and playoffs, and we'd be in a much worse place if we didn't have them.

Unknowable.

With all the capspace...

 

[notDatsyuk]

No it wouldn't. They were significantly better players than Nylander. They're supposed to get paid a significant amount more.

And yet in the last 6 seasons Nylander has more goals than Marner and more assists than Matthews, and overall about 10% fewer points in 10% less ice time while playing with appreciably lesser linemates.

They are maybe barely better players, getting significantly more overpaid.

 

[Dekes For Days]

What trade puts over the top to go deep? Is this the year?
What can we add? Do we bring all the core back?

Any year could be the year. It hasn't been a great year so far, so we probably shouldn't invest a ton, but the competition has also dropped off, and goaltending can take over a series, as we've seen. We should probably look for a way to reinforce center and/or defense. Yes, we should bring the core back.

Unknowable.
With all the capspace...

Cap space doesn't win games.

And yet in the last 6 seasons Nylander has more goals than Marner and more assists than Matthews, and overall about 10% fewer points in 10% less ice time while playing with appreciably lesser linemates.
They are maybe barely better players, getting significantly more overpaid.

Over the past 6 seasons, Matthews and Marner were 1.25 P/GP compared to Nylander's 1.00, and there was an even bigger gap in overall impact. They were much better players when they signed (which is what was being discussed), and they've been much better players since.

 

[hamzarocks]

You have to make a decision at this point.

Matthews contract ends in 3 years or 4 playoff runs.

At that pt

Tavares is 37 going to 38 year season

Marner is 31 going to 32 year season

Nylander is 32 going to 33 year old season

Matthews himself is 31 going to 32 year old season

The only guys who would be young and prime level players will be:

Knies --> 25 going 26

Current trade pieces that you need to decide if they are good enough to provide value in this 3 year window to help us contend and then serve to be core level pieces taking 16, 34, 91, 88s roles in those 3 years are

Cowan
Minten
Grebenkin

The 100% non emotional answer is

Cowan --> No
Minten --> f*** No
Greb --> f*** No

None of them have high enough ceilings to be replacing 16, or 88 or 34 in 3 years time based on what we have seen as of Feb 2025 from them.

If MLSE is 100% not changing anything and will extend 91 and 16 then I think you toss in the towel for years 2029-2035 as that will be lengthy rebuild period

You sell all of the below

2026 1st
Danford
Cowan
Minten
Greb
2025 2nd
2027 1st

Get 2 to 3 very good secondary level assets to support the team and give us best shot at winning this playoffs + next 3 playoffs.

This type of moves likely wont happen at the TDL but at the draft/summer assumung 16 and 91 are extended then we should be looking to make major roster adds anyways for purpose of next 3 years being all that we focus on and looking to bang out 1 cup somehow with thos group.

For me that is a 2nd line LW, 2nd line C, and 2nd pairing RHD all with 2-3 year term and ability to play those roles well to help the team push for a cup

Cowan + 2026 1st for 2C
Greb + 2025 2nd for 2LW
Minten/Danford + 2027 1st for 2RHD

 

[notDatsyuk]

Over the past 6 seasons, Matthews and Marner were 1.25 P/GP compared to Nylander's 1.00, and there was an even bigger gap in overall impact. They were much better players when they signed (which is what was being discussed), and they've been much better players since.

Yes, dekes, you can twist stats as well as anyone. The stats I provided are correct and you know it,but can't admit that your point of view may be wrong.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Yes, dekes, you can twist stats as well as anyone. The stats I provided are correct and you know it,but can't admit that your point of view may be wrong.

I didn't twist anything. You did. 'More goals than X' and 'more assists than Y', instead of being straightforward. Pointing to raw points while ignoring GP. Not to mention percentages that aren't quite right, selective context, ignoring everything outside of production, etc. Heck, it's not even the right sample for the discussion. What you provided did not accurately portray the gap between the players, at the time being discussed or since, and your conclusion was wrong.

 

[darrylsittler27]

You have to make a decision at this point.

Matthews contract ends in 3 years or 4 playoff runs.

At that pt

Tavares is 37 going to 38 year season

Marner is 31 going to 32 year season

Nylander is 32 going to 33 year old season

Matthews himself is 31 going to 32 year old season

The only guys who would be young and prime level players will be:

Knies --> 25 going 26

Current trade pieces that you need to decide if they are good enough to provide value in this 3 year window to help us contend and then serve to be core level pieces taking 16, 34, 91, 88s roles in those 3 years are

Cowan
Minten
Grebenkin

The 100% non emotional answer is

Cowan --> No
Minten --> f*** No
Greb --> f*** No

None of them have high enough ceilings to be replacing 16, or 88 or 34 in 3 years time based on what we have seen as of Feb 2025 from them.

If MLSE is 100% not changing anything and will extend 91 and 16 then I think you toss in the towel for years 2029-2035 as that will be lengthy rebuild period

You sell all of the below

2026 1st
Danford
Cowan
Minten
Greb
2025 2nd
2027 1st

Get 2 to 3 very good secondary level assets to support the team and give us best shot at winning this playoffs + next 3 playoffs.

This type of moves likely wont happen at the TDL but at the draft/summer assumung 16 and 91 are extended then we should be looking to make major roster adds anyways for purpose of next 3 years being all that we focus on and looking to bang out 1 cup somehow with thos group.

For me that is a 2nd line LW, 2nd line C, and 2nd pairing RHD all with 2-3 year term and ability to play those roles well to help the team push for a cup

Cowan + 2026 1st for 2C
Greb + 2025 2nd for 2LW
Minten/Danford + 2027 1st for 2RHD

I question the demand for our prospects and think other GM's will outbid us. Right now none of them look that sexy.

 

[Nineteen67]

You have to make a decision at this point.

Matthews contract ends in 3 years or 4 playoff runs.

At that pt

Tavares is 37 going to 38 year season

Marner is 31 going to 32 year season

Nylander is 32 going to 33 year old season

Matthews himself is 31 going to 32 year old season

The only guys who would be young and prime level players will be:

Knies --> 25 going 26

Current trade pieces that you need to decide if they are good enough to provide value in this 3 year window to help us contend and then serve to be core level pieces taking 16, 34, 91, 88s roles in those 3 years are

Cowan
Minten
Grebenkin

The 100% non emotional answer is

Cowan --> No
Minten --> f*** No
Greb --> f*** No

None of them have high enough ceilings to be replacing 16, or 88 or 34 in 3 years time based on what we have seen as of Feb 2025 from them.

If MLSE is 100% not changing anything and will extend 91 and 16 then I think you toss in the towel for years 2029-2035 as that will be lengthy rebuild period

You sell all of the below

2026 1st
Danford
Cowan
Minten
Greb
2025 2nd
2027 1st

Get 2 to 3 very good secondary level assets to support the team and give us best shot at winning this playoffs + next 3 playoffs.

This type of moves likely wont happen at the TDL but at the draft/summer assumung 16 and 91 are extended then we should be looking to make major roster adds anyways for purpose of next 3 years being all that we focus on and looking to bang out 1 cup somehow with thos group.

For me that is a 2nd line LW, 2nd line C, and 2nd pairing RHD all with 2-3 year term and ability to play those roles well to help the team push for a cup

Cowan + 2026 1st for 2C
Greb + 2025 2nd for 2LW
Minten/Danford + 2027 1st for 2RHD

And if doesn’t work and they lose in the first or second round they could start the rebuild this summer.

 

[Nineteen67]

I question the demand for our prospects and think other GM's will outbid us. Right now none of them look that sexy.

Executing the plan is challenging, but they either try it or start the rebuild now.

 

[notDatsyuk]

I didn't twist anything. You did. 'More goals than X' and 'more assists than Y', instead of being straightforward. Pointing to raw points while ignoring GP. Not to mention percentages that aren't quite right, selective context, ignoring everything outside of production, etc. Heck, it's not even the right sample for the discussion. What you provided did not accurately portray the gap between the players, at the time being discussed or since, and your conclusion was wrong.

It's funny how you constantly blame others for doing exactly what you do, and that is a perfect example.

Just because the accurate statements I provided didn’t align with your fantasy It's not the right sample?

 

[darrylsittler27]

Executing the plan is challenging, but they either try it or start the rebuild now.

How do you rebuild when everyone has an NMC?

7lluLExecuting toljle pl9i78n isullolililu challuylllolenging, butjllul they either trt itKuj or start the rebuild now.

 

[Dekes For Days]

It's funny how you constantly blame others for doing exactly what you do, and that is a perfect example.

I don't. That's your specialty. You misrepresented the gap, and then accused me of twisting stats when the only stat I posted was their P/GPs through your chosen sample. Apparently you now think P/GP - which you use all the time - is twisted.

Just because the accurate statements I provided didn’t align with your fantasy It's not the right sample?

It's not the right sample because the discussion was about the signing, and the misleading statements you provided were about a post signing sample (not even in alignment with the contracts) that had no relevance to the signing amount.

 

[Nineteen67]

How do you rebuild when everyone has an NMC?

That would be the least of my worries.

 

[stats1]

The answer here is pretty easy.. you sell everything you have. You have a 3 year window here. If that fails you’re probably going scorched earth anyway and guys like Matthews/Nylander/Marner would give you a war chest of picks and prospects to get a foundation for the next era. I don’t see the point in holding onto kids like Cowan when they’re nowhere close to being impact players or replacing the core pieces here. And you definitely aren’t going to play Cowan in the bottom 6 on a cup winner… you trade trade trade! Sell high and go for a cup that’s what we have in front of us right now! The next 3 years should be the priority. after that if they fail you blow it up. Not sure what a 2026 FRP and Cowan can get you but Treliving better be figuring that out

 

[keonsbitterness]

And if doesn’t work and they lose in the first or second round they could start the rebuild this summer.

The chances of a rebuild this summer are less than zero. Stop posting nonsense.

 

[thewave]

How much does MLSE pay you

I can't give you the thumbs up for similar responses so watch it buster lol

 

[Nineteen67]

The answer here is pretty easy.. you sell everything you have. You have a 3 year window here. If that fails you’re probably going scorched earth anyway and guys like Matthews/Nylander/Marner would give you a war chest of picks and prospects to get a foundation for the next era. I don’t see the point in holding onto kids like Cowan when they’re nowhere close to being impact players or replacing the core pieces here. And you definitely aren’t going to play Cowan in the bottom 6 on a cup winner… you trade trade trade! Sell high and go for a cup that’s what we have in front of us right now! The next 3 years should be the priority. after that if they fail you blow it up. Not sure what a 2026 FRP and Cowan can get you but Treliving better be figuring that out

They can’t wait three years to trade Matthews Marner and Nylander- if it doesn’t work this year and the core gets pushed out the first round series, they have to start the rebuild this summer.

 

[Larcos_Unal]

They can’t wait three years to trade Matthews Marner and Nylander- if it doesn’t work this year and the core gets pushed out the first round series, they have to start the rebuild this summer.

Leafs will never willingly trade the core. The only way they are not on the team is they force a trade, leave via free agency, or retire.

 

[ULF_55]

Leafs will never willingly trade the core. The only way they are not on the team is they force a trade, leave via free agency, or retire.

Leaving in free agency isn't a huge deal.

That's how teams sign UFA's.

Other than the Coyotes, seems they all come back the following year and play.

Leafs then use that freed up money for other UFA's.

 

[ULF_55]

How do you rebuild when everyone has an NMC?

When someone with a double digit contract walks away.

A smart GM would get complementary assets for the 3 best forwards left on the team.

And internal growth with players like Knies, and McMann's Hyman like progression.

If no one walks you develop better lines and take away the crutches.

 

[darrylsittler27]

When someone with a double digit contract walks away.

A smart GM would get complementary assets for the 3 best forwards left on the team.

And internal growth with players like Knies, and McMann's Hyman like progression.

If no one walks you develop better lines and take away the crutches.

If we lose early I don't want to build around Tavares. You need to let both walk and start over. We have so many guys we need to dump it's not funny. Kampf, Reeves, Dewar, Domi etc. We may even have to ask Reilly if he will move home to Vanc and get a true 1D.

 

[arso40]

If we lose early I don't want to build around Tavares. You need to let both walk and start over. We have so many guys we need to dump it's not funny. Kampf, Reeves, Dewar, Domi etc. We may even have to ask Reilly if he will move home to Vanc and get a true 1D.

All of them

 

[hullsy47]

leafs don't have the capacity they need to swap roster players for roster players

Leafs just dont have the trade chips
Nobody wants our scraps

 

[arso40]

They can’t wait three years to trade Matthews Marner and Nylander- if it doesn’t work this year and the core gets pushed out the first round series, they have to start the rebuild this summer.

Retool