Post-Game Talk: HOT POTATO! JETS BEAT AVS 7-4

[Jet]

Hard to pad your shot-share with rebounds when Grubauer lets in the first one most of the time.

Just sayin'...



You've been on this board long enough to know that we have no clue what any of the assistant coaches do, so I have to assume you're just trying to get people riled up.

Goalies lose their positioning during/after breakdowns. It happens.

Not trying to get anyone 'riled up'.

Seems strange to me that every goalie that comes to the Jets starts suffering from similar issues. The one year that Hellebuyck spends with an outside coach he comes back and has a Vezina finalist season

I also disagree that we don't know what the assistants due - we've seen the byproduct of their work long enough. We know that our special teams seem to have a much better idea of what to do now that Kompon is here with us.

Finally, I think I can tell the difference between the way Hellebuyck played last year vs. this.

Last year he was much more quiet. He was in position, reading the play very well, and it looked 'easy' for him. This year he has looked late to react, overplaying situations, scrambly and floppy.

 

[DarthMonty]

Let's run with that. Although a Nietzsche would also serve.

Nah, I'd peg a 1/2 Dostoyevsky as a Pasternak.

Laine is 20. Recall how "incomplete" Scheifele, Ovechkin, MacKinnon etc. were at that age.

Was an entertaining game, reminded me of late 80's run and guns against the Oilers, Flames and Nordique

 

[Hank Chinaski]

One thing I would like to do is give it up to Rantanen. I know Mikko probably gets less love than he should because he plays with Mac and he plays out in Colorado but the guy is a ****ing beast. Two seasons ago when the Lanche were putrid I was in BellMTS and in the PGT I was marveling and how big and fast Rantanen was that night and said how he was going to be a star. Last night it was more of the same but his entire game is incredible. With Mikko and Nate they make zone entries seem like childs play. If Makar pans out and they somehow land Hughes in this upcoming draft they are going to be one of the fastest most skilled teams in the NHL.

The way Rantanen snaps tape-to-tape passes without telegraphing them is a thing to behold. He honestly reminds me a bit of Wheeler in that regard. Very similar in how the Avs PP runs through him on the half wall, same way it does with Blake.

 

[Robinson2187]

I guess what I meant to say was, a poster who’ll leave a 1000 word essay to say he is already receiving the best off season training.

Haven't seen those folks around for awhile. Is it because there was no Laine thread or is it because they have noticed Pate's holes and given up pinning everything on Maurice and Little?

 

[Ducky10]

That was a fun game to watch last night. I love watching the Jets Scorsi the hell out of a team that is Corsiing the hell out of us. Thank goodness Bednar decided to start Brubauer against us and save Varlamov for the tougher game against Calgary. Gift win in a game where we were dummied in our building against a divisional team. It would be nice to see a better effort. It is getting harder and harder to tell if we are really a contender or not. Standings say yes, play on ice on too many nights says no.

Laine is really struggling. For those who continually say how great Maurice is at developing our young players, isn't it time to start asking tough questions about how we are coaching Laine? He is a far worse hockey player now than when he started in the NHL. What are we doing to this superstar kid wonder?

Dummied?

Not at all. Not even badly outplayed. The Avs shoot from everywhere but the bench. Overall game was pretty even, except in net.

What happened to screw the corsi? Win the scorsi?

 

[Ducky10]

Great Great review as usual.

I was at the game with my son so I got a chance to isolate on different elements of the game I can't catch on the camera at home. I thought it was one of Little's best games in along time. He is so smart in his defensive positioning and so sound at the fundamentals. If my kid played center on a team I would tell him to study Litts and do it that way. When I Maurice going to realize that Niku can't be much worse than Morrow he was such a train wreck last night. I don't love Sami's D game but its really not any worse than this version of Morrow and at least Sami has other assets like moving the puck.

Anyways it was a highly entertaining NHL 80's theme night to be at.

I thought Little was great last night, quite easily the best player on his line overall.

Niku might have a lot to learn defensively but let him learn on the job, Joe Morrow sure isn't.

 

[bustamente]

Dummied?

Not at all. Not even badly outplayed. The Avs shoot from everywhere but the bench. Overall game was pretty even, except in net.

What happened to screw the corsi? Win the scorsi?

Shoot from everywhere you bet, think I saw a few from the rafters.

 

[WolfgangPuck]

My first game watching Jets since Xmas and seems like Jets hasn’t lost a step. Was in Mexico for the sun and warmth past week
Follow the box scores online last week and noticed the losing streak. What happened?

 

[Whileee]

Maybe he had a bad night. If not, good news for us going forward!

He did have a bad night, but his season has been mediocre - 0.895 sv% this season. Varlamov has been better, but he's a UFA after this season, and starts next season at age 31. Maybe they'll re-sign Varlamov, but I think they were really hoping that Grubauer would be their goalie of the future.

 

[Whileee]

Not trying to get anyone 'riled up'.

Seems strange to me that every goalie that comes to the Jets starts suffering from similar issues. The one year that Hellebuyck spends with an outside coach he comes back and has a Vezina finalist season

I also disagree that we don't know what the assistants due - we've seen the byproduct of their work long enough. We know that our special teams seem to have a much better idea of what to do now that Kompon is here with us.

Finally, I think I can tell the difference between the way Hellebuyck played last year vs. this.

Last year he was much more quiet. He was in position, reading the play very well, and it looked 'easy' for him. This year he has looked late to react, overplaying situations, scrambly and floppy.

I also think that shot quality has played a role. Last year, the D was much more stable and gave him very few tough shots to deal with, especially from the slot area. He was getting more predictable shots last season... (Enstrom / Buff probably had a lot to do with the better shot suppression last season, along with the shaky start for Myers and Kulikov this season).

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Dummied?

Not at all. Not even badly outplayed. The Avs shoot from everywhere but the bench. Overall game was pretty even, except in net.

What happened to screw the corsi? Win the scorsi?

You don't read my posts. Right out of the post you quoted me:

"I love watching the Jets Scorsi the hell out of a team that is Corsiing the hell out of us"

 

[Ducky10]

You don't read my posts. Right out of the post you quoted me:

"I love watching the Jets Scorsi the hell out of a team that is Corsiing the hell out of us"

Corsiing doesn't mean outplaying, which was pretty much your mantra early last season. You've seemed to have changed your stance on that somewhat and are giving more credence to Corsi.

A game like last night is the perfect example as to why single game Corsi says very little, especially without context.

 

[JetsWillFly4Ever]

Corsiing doesn't mean outplaying, which was pretty much your mantra early last season. You've seemed to have changed your stance on that somewhat and are giving more credence to Corsi.

A game like last night is the perfect example as to why single game Corsi says very little, especially without context.

Yep.

He also refuses to acknowledge score effects despite posting a chart that shows the corsi being fairly even when we pulled ahead 4-1

 

[Evil Little]

Not trying to get anyone 'riled up'.

Seems strange to me that every goalie that comes to the Jets starts suffering from similar issues. The one year that Hellebuyck spends with an outside coach he comes back and has a Vezina finalist season

I also disagree that we don't know what the assistants due - we've seen the byproduct of their work long enough. We know that our special teams seem to have a much better idea of what to do now that Kompon is here with us.

Finally, I think I can tell the difference between the way Hellebuyck played last year vs. this.

Last year he was much more quiet. He was in position, reading the play very well, and it looked 'easy' for him. This year he has looked late to react, overplaying situations, scrambly and floppy.

Generally I agree that he looks less boring than last year, but more obviously than some guess about Flaherty wanting to change a Vezina finalist's game to be floppier, I'd look at some other changes we know were made:

• Enström out, Morrow in.
• Armia out, Lemiuex in.
• Stastny out, Roslovic in.

There are others, but those are three significant defensive downgrades.

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

Corsiing doesn't mean outplaying, which was pretty much your mantra early last season. You've seemed to have changed your stance on that somewhat and are giving more credence to Corsi.

A game like last night is the perfect example as to why single game Corsi says very little, especially without context.

Well I sure hope that we don't don't get outplayed like that very often because, setting goaltending aside, we will lose an awful lot of games where we don't get outplayed like last night.

 

[Whileee]

Yep.

He also refuses to acknowledge score effects despite posting a chart that shows the corsi being fairly even when we pulled ahead 4-1

Jets were +21 in CF% vs. the Pens and -20 in CF% vs. the Stars... HF Jets didn't like either game.

I wonder how the Bolts' fans reacted to this debacle...

 

[jefferoni]

 

[jefferoni]

 

[WPGChief]

Corsica wasn't working last night and I was taking care of some other matters, so we can dig a bit deeper into this with the help of one or two images from HockeyViz (which I encourage all of you to support through Patreon for the cost of two coffees per month).

• What a mishmash of colours above eh? Jets were admittedly hemmed in their zone a bit more than they likely anticipated, but did well to limit a lot of the 'high danger' chances. In terms of 5v5 play, of those 27 shots, 4 of them were considered high danger (according to Corsica) of which Hellebuyck let 2 of those in. He seemed a bit more 'active' in net as the Avs were buzzing around the Jets zone, but if the defence gives him more of this kind of game - but with maybe less total shots against - the Jets team will be fine. It's a shame that we can't say the same about Grubauer, who was nothing short of disastrous.
• Visually to me, the Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler line was weird - they capitalized on most of their few extremely dangerous chances, but also gave up a lot of shots against. When we look at HockeyViz's summary for Scheifele, we can put a theory to rest that the Avs were limited to the outside: they had nearly as much as shots at even strength as Scheifele alone in the slot or in the dots. Main difference? Avs had a couple more misses from the same spot (Scheifele was on target for his). I subscribe to the theory that shooters always try to shoot to where the goalie isn't, so credit to Hellebuyck for covering the net and forcing the Avs to miss their shots. That being said, we can and should expect better from our top line during 5v5 play.
• Laine's highs and lows are mountains and canyons, if I were to interpret most people's reactions on here. Most people would be quick (and are correct) to point out a sequence of plays where he seemingly passed it to Avs players twice when trying to exit the zone. My initial reaction? How is that confident and cocky of a player, not confident and cocky enough to carry it out of his own zone? That screams some sort of game plan to me in trying to lessen Laine's recent bad play which is only making it worse. Let his talent show and get his confidence back.
• Perreault-Lowry-Tanev... simply lol. How are they always this good?
• Admittedly there was only two-ish periods of 5v5 play to be given to the Appleton-Copp-Lemieux line, and Copp capitalized on a few lucky bounces that came his way from right in front of the crease, but gave up a just as bad chance and goal against. This will be an interesting line to watch - of their 7 counted shots for, 5 of them were blocks. They can do better than that, I would think.
• Kulikov-Morrow were on the ice for the two goals against, even though they came out a bit even in terms of xG according to Corsica. Looking at HockeyViz for Kulikov's time, we can see that they were barraged when they were on the ice for limited 5v5 time, with an almost seemingly equal amount coming from within the dots and from the point. I would say the Avs clearly game planned to try and get as many shots on net as possible when these two were out, contributing to the two goals against from up close (this tip late in the 3rd where the team could have done better than to clog Hellebuyck's vision, and this bad pinch from Morrow and bounce from Kulikov). They performed better when initially together, but this was a tough game for them.

Chief's final eyetest says: Laine's only 20. He'll grow, but he'll need to get out of this funk. Best way to do that is by allowing him to play to his strengths, not to focus on and try to limit where it might be going wrong for him.

 

[Ducky10]

Corsica wasn't working last night and I was taking care of some other matters, so we can dig a bit deeper into this with the help of one or two images from HockeyViz (which I encourage all of you to support through Patreon for the cost of two coffees per month).

• What a mishmash of colours above eh? Jets were admittedly hemmed in their zone a bit more than they likely anticipated, but did well to limit a lot of the 'high danger' chances. In terms of 5v5 play, of those 27 shots, 4 of them were considered high danger (according to Corsica) of which Hellebuyck let 2 of those in. He seemed a bit more 'active' in net as the Avs were buzzing around the Jets zone, but if the defence gives him more of this kind of game - but with maybe less total shots against - the Jets team will be fine. It's a shame that we can't say the same about Grubauer, who was nothing short of disastrous.
• Visually to me, the Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler line was weird - they capitalized on most of their few extremely dangerous chances, but also gave up a lot of shots against. When we look at HockeyViz's summary for Scheifele, we can put a theory to rest that the Avs were limited to the outside: they had nearly as much as shots at even strength as Scheifele alone in the slot or in the dots. Main difference? Avs had a couple more misses from the same spot (Scheifele was on target for his). I subscribe to the theory that shooters always try to shoot to where the goalie isn't, so credit to Hellebuyck for covering the net and forcing the Avs to miss their shots. That being said, we can and should expect better from our top line during 5v5 play.
• Laine's highs and lows are mountains and canyons, if I were to interpret most people's reactions on here. Most people would be quick (and are correct) to point out a sequence of plays where he seemingly passed it to Avs players twice when trying to exit the zone. My initial reaction? How is that confident and cocky of a player, not confident and cocky enough to carry it out of his own zone? That screams some sort of game plan to me in trying to lessen Laine's recent bad play which is only making it worse. Let his talent show and get his confidence back.
• Perreault-Lowry-Tanev... simply lol. How are they always this good?
• Admittedly there was only two-ish periods of 5v5 play to be given to the Appleton-Copp-Lemieux line, and Copp capitalized on a few lucky bounces that came his way from right in front of the crease, but gave up a just as bad chance and goal against. This will be an interesting line to watch - of their 7 counted shots for, 5 of them were blocks. They can do better than that, I would think.
• Kulikov-Morrow were on the ice for the two goals against, even though they came out a bit even in terms of xG according to Corsica. Looking at HockeyViz for Kulikov's time, we can see that they were barraged when they were on the ice for limited 5v5 time, with an almost seemingly equal amount coming from within the dots and from the point. I would say the Avs clearly game planned to try and get as many shots on net as possible when these two were out, contributing to the two goals against from up close (this tip late in the 3rd where the team could have done better than to clog Hellebuyck's vision, and this bad pinch from Morrow and bounce from Kulikov). They performed better when initially together, but this was a tough game for them.

Chief's final eyetest says: Laine's only 20. He'll grow, but he'll need to get out of this funk. Best way to do that is by allowing him to play to his strengths, not to focus on and try to limit where it might be going wrong for him.

Great stuff again Chief. My only quibble is that pinch by Morrow was nowhere near as bad by the play by Kuli imo. His gap was horrific and the drive by swat at the puck giving up the middle of the ice was the stuff of 10 year olds.

 

[YWGinYYZ]

Jets were +21 in CF% vs. the Pens and -20 in CF% vs. the Stars... HF Jets didn't like either game.

I wonder how the Bolts' fans reacted to this debacle...

View attachment 173847

 

[Ducky10]

Jets were +21 in CF% vs. the Pens and -20 in CF% vs. the Stars... HF Jets didn't like either game.

I wonder how the Bolts' fans reacted to this debacle...

View attachment 173847

HF Jets didn't like the Stars game?

Wha?

 

[Howard Chuck]

Corsica wasn't working last night and I was taking care of some other matters, so we can dig a bit deeper into this with the help of one or two images from HockeyViz (which I encourage all of you to support through Patreon for the cost of two coffees per month).

• What a mishmash of colours above eh? Jets were admittedly hemmed in their zone a bit more than they likely anticipated, but did well to limit a lot of the 'high danger' chances. In terms of 5v5 play, of those 27 shots, 4 of them were considered high danger (according to Corsica) of which Hellebuyck let 2 of those in. He seemed a bit more 'active' in net as the Avs were buzzing around the Jets zone, but if the defence gives him more of this kind of game - but with maybe less total shots against - the Jets team will be fine. It's a shame that we can't say the same about Grubauer, who was nothing short of disastrous.
• Visually to me, the Connor-Scheifele-Wheeler line was weird - they capitalized on most of their few extremely dangerous chances, but also gave up a lot of shots against. When we look at HockeyViz's summary for Scheifele, we can put a theory to rest that the Avs were limited to the outside: they had nearly as much as shots at even strength as Scheifele alone in the slot or in the dots. Main difference? Avs had a couple more misses from the same spot (Scheifele was on target for his). I subscribe to the theory that shooters always try to shoot to where the goalie isn't, so credit to Hellebuyck for covering the net and forcing the Avs to miss their shots. That being said, we can and should expect better from our top line during 5v5 play.
• Laine's highs and lows are mountains and canyons, if I were to interpret most people's reactions on here. Most people would be quick (and are correct) to point out a sequence of plays where he seemingly passed it to Avs players twice when trying to exit the zone. My initial reaction? How is that confident and cocky of a player, not confident and cocky enough to carry it out of his own zone? That screams some sort of game plan to me in trying to lessen Laine's recent bad play which is only making it worse. Let his talent show and get his confidence back.
• Perreault-Lowry-Tanev... simply lol. How are they always this good?
• Admittedly there was only two-ish periods of 5v5 play to be given to the Appleton-Copp-Lemieux line, and Copp capitalized on a few lucky bounces that came his way from right in front of the crease, but gave up a just as bad chance and goal against. This will be an interesting line to watch - of their 7 counted shots for, 5 of them were blocks. They can do better than that, I would think.
• Kulikov-Morrow were on the ice for the two goals against, even though they came out a bit even in terms of xG according to Corsica. Looking at HockeyViz for Kulikov's time, we can see that they were barraged when they were on the ice for limited 5v5 time, with an almost seemingly equal amount coming from within the dots and from the point. I would say the Avs clearly game planned to try and get as many shots on net as possible when these two were out, contributing to the two goals against from up close (this tip late in the 3rd where the team could have done better than to clog Hellebuyck's vision, and this bad pinch from Morrow and bounce from Kulikov). They performed better when initially together, but this was a tough game for them.

Chief's final eyetest says: Laine's only 20. He'll grow, but he'll need to get out of this funk. Best way to do that is by allowing him to play to his strengths, not to focus on and try to limit where it might be going wrong for him.

I’m not much of a stats guy but I sure enjoy your posts. Probably because our opinions are similar

 

[Derfel]

I guess it's lucky every time a baseball player hits the ball? *shrugs*

That was pure skill

The Avs PBP guys called it lucky.

 

[Ducky10]

The Avs PBP guys called it lucky.

Well that settles it then.