Honesty: we can’t make any conclusions about this team based on the regular season

[Brewin8]

How temporary realignment has impacted the National Hockey League standings so far - TSN.ca

this clarifies some thoughts people have on the re-alignment..

 

[Pucker77]

Assuming the Leafs continue their play and finish #1 in the division, this is the best chance they have at winning the Cup. The expectation should be the Stanley Cup Semi-Finals (normally the Conference Finals), outside big injuries costing them, if the team loses in the 1st round once again it should be viewed as a failure and they may need to make a major change.

In previous years the Leafs would have to play Boston/Tampa Bay in the first 2 rounds, and then 2 more rounds of elite teams. This year they have to beat 2 of Montreal, Winnipeg, Edmonton, or Calgary which they should, before they have legitimate "tough" matchups.

With all that said, I want the Leafs to have a tiny bit of adversity at some point in the season. I dont want a Tampa situation to happen where the Leafs coast to the playoffs then play a team who was fighting for the final 2-4 weeks to make it. I want the team ready to go when it matters most.

 

[RogerR]

THe North division is actually a a great test for our D. It's the real deal.

 

[Menzinger]

I think the quality of competition argument is being lazily overblown. The idea that you can't make eye test or stats based analysis doesn't hold up to scrutiny.

And it goes both ways. Sure the Leafs don't have to play Tampa but they also miss put on beating up on the Sabres

 

[7even]

Deep down you believe.

The only way out is in a body bag baby

 

[ruaware41]

Last year we played Canadian teams 14 times

1	10/02/2019		Ottawa Senators	5	3	W
2	10/05/2019		Montreal Canadiens	5	6	L	SO
3	10/26/2019	@	Montreal Canadiens	2	5	L
4	12/10/2019	@	Vancouver Canucks	4	1	W
5	12/12/2019	@	Calgary Flames	2	4	L
6	12/14/2019	@	Edmonton Oilers	4	1	W
7	01/02/2020	@	Winnipeg Jets	6	3	W
8	01/06/2020		Edmonton Oilers	4	6	L
9	01/08/2020		Winnipeg Jets	3	4	L	SO
10	01/16/2020		Calgary Flames	1	2	L	SO
11	02/01/2020		Ottawa Senators	2	1	W	OT
12	02/08/2020	@	Montreal Canadiens	1	2	L	OT
13	02/15/2020	@	Ottawa Senators	4	2	W
14	02/29/2020		Vancouver Canucks	4	2	W

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

GP	W	L	OT/SO		PTS	PTS%
14	7	3	4		18	0.643

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

So far this year we have played them 19 times

GP	W	L	OT/SO		PTS	PTS%
19	14	3	2		30	0.789

[TBODY] [/TBODY]

Are we allowed to be honest and say we are playing much better this year?
Is that a sign of improvement that we can be happy about?

Yes absolutely. I’m just saying we like to dive in head first into the koolaid so some breaks on the hype train probably don’t hurt either. The lot of you sing a different tune after round for 4 years in a row and then 20 games in go back to your usual selves. Weird way of life for me personally.

So you ignore all legitimate context and quality of competition impacts for years to consistently bash the team and everything associated with it, but now, when we're completely dominating, you've arbitrarily decided our opposition just sucks and nothing we do counts, based on absolutely nothing.

I never did that. Just because I don’t blindly worship everything the team ever does is not evidence of that. And it’s not about me deciding arbitrarily. The Canadian teams are not as good as the top American teams. It’s okay to enjoy this, but it’s important to remember that we never questioned whether they can do well against these teams. It’s just the reality of the situation that the current regular season is not representative of a standard regular season and favours the Leafs strengths and weaknesses. Now they’re making the most of it and they deserve credit for that and I haven’t said they don’t. But for those of us who don’t like to drink Koolaid every year I think context can’t hurt either.

 

[ruaware41]

Delete

 

[ruaware41]

Never can, bro.

But just remind yourself of this: we have Joe Thornton (82 point pace), Jason Spezza (50 point pace) and John Tavares (73 point pace) on the Toronto Maple Leafs.

And that doesn't include the best goal scorer presently in the league, or his linemate Mitch Marner on a 130 point pace. Or Nylander on a 60 point pace. Or Morgan Rielly on a 70 point pace.

I hate to tell you, but the Leafs are f***in good and loaded with talented. Only thing that shoots us down is spotty goaltending.

I 100% agree with this. Let’s hope for Andy 2.0 in the playoffs (I sound like Conor McGregor fans saying this 2.0 shit)

 

[ruaware41]

Just going to add one final discussion point to the thread on my end. One thing I notice is that over here there’s a lot of creating an argument for someone and then bashing it.

- Just because someone doesn’t go gaga every year does not mean they are haters.
- Just because someone doesn’t praise the team by the parameters someone else defines doesn’t mean they are always looking to bash the team. I saw a post that said “If they win it’s against mediocre teams. If they lose they lost to mediocre teams.” Right but I didn’t create the North division or the pandemic. If they were playing like this last year including against defensively tight teams that would give assurance that they can replicate this in the playoffs when things tighten up.
- Just because someone offers criticism of the team does not mean they are not appreciative of the performance. Some fans like to go crazy during the regular season and after round 1 go back to talking about how mediocre the team is, trade him fire him regular season means nothing and go crazy a week into reg season. I personally do not understand that energy and find it absolutely weird.
- Not all fans are fans by way of perpetual worship and praise. This does not mean they don’t want the team to do well simply that their expectations are tempered/different. We all want the same goal which is Stanley, not finish first in the reg season.

- my point as mentioned is not just the North being a weak division. Though if we look at the accomplishments of these Canadian teams. Only team to do well was Vancouver last year. None of the other teams have had a meaningful playoff impact. That’s just the truth.

The point more so was we have struggled getting it done in the playoffs against teams that play very tight hockey, play heavy, clog the neutral zone, forecheck hard, and limit goals. This season so far shows no evidence we have overcome the challenges we faced in the past with such teams as most if not all these teams are playing high event hockey with high goal scoring and goals against. We already knew we can beat these teams.

- The leafs didn’t choose to play in this division nor make the divisions so they can only make the most of their current situation and they are doing so for which they deserve credit. However the questions we had after Columbus last year and after every first round for a while haven’t been addressed. Is there some kinda benefit to doing the same rodeo every year and then doing a 180 come golf time? Or is a fans job to just blindly praise? I think this is a more philosophical argument.

 

[Legion34]

What if the leafs finish 2 or 3rd. Can we draw conclusions then? Bet we can....

 

[Dekes For Days]

I never did that.

You've done exactly that.

And it’s not about me deciding arbitrarily. The Canadian teams are not as good as the top American teams.

It is about you deciding arbitrarily. There is zero evidence that our division is any weaker than any other division. It is pure fantasy of those who dislike and wish to discredit the teams and players doing well. The style of teams you discuss are also present within this division.

It’s okay to enjoy this, but it’s important to remember that we never questioned whether they can do well against these teams.

Lots of people questioned it, before we started dominating. Now suddenly it was supposedly inevitable, and worth nothing. If the only teams we have difficulty with are the elite of the elite teams (and we take even them to the limit with worse versions of this team), then we are undeniably a cup contender.

 

[ruaware41]

I got a lot of head shake worthy responses in this thread. A lot of people claimed I am a hater/not a true fan/perceived criticism of the team as always bashing the team/not enjoying the present for simply looking at the bigger picture and offering a different perspective which was more than valid based on historical context.

Does anyone want to man up and learn from their mistakes in the future? Or will the usual suspects just cherry pick stats to overrate the team and bash any criticism as hateful as soon as this team goes on another regular season run while hiding in the woodworks for now? As another poster put so succinctly, having the blind faith of a golden retriever and plugging your ears/shutting your eyes to anything that doesn't align with irrational optimism isn't the way being a fan works for everyone. Great teams don't lose 3 games to the 2021 habs. Maybe if some of you stopped overrating them so much the players wouldn't have such an inflated sense of self and demand ridiculous contracts (at the time) which they are willing to sit out for.

 

[Blowfish]

I got a lot of head shake worthy responses in this thread. A lot of people claimed I am a hater/not a true fan/perceived criticism of the team as always bashing the team/not enjoying the present for simply looking at the bigger picture and offering a different perspective which was more than valid based on historical context.

Does anyone want to man up and learn from their mistakes in the future? Or will the usual suspects just cherry pick stats to overrate the team and bash any criticism as hateful as soon as this team goes on another regular season run while hiding in the woodworks for now? As another poster put so succinctly, having the blind faith of a golden retriever and plugging your ears/shutting your eyes to anything that doesn't align with irrational optimism isn't the way being a fan works for everyone. Great teams don't lose 3 games to the 2021 habs. Maybe if some of you stopped overrating them so much the players wouldn't have such an inflated sense of self and demand ridiculous contracts (at the time) which they are willing to sit out for.

I believe non leaf fans are on board with your post but you're right "the usual suspects" continue to flood HFBoards with leaf greatness. At the end of the day this leaf team isn't very likeable with a mix bag of turd egos with zero playoff gameplay ability. To be honest not sure why so many fans continue to cheer for this core.

 

[ruaware41]

I believe non leaf fans are on board with your post but you're right "the usual suspects" continue to flood HFBoards with leaf greatness. At the end of the day this leaf team isn't very likeable with a mix bag of turd egos with zero playoff gameplay ability. To be honest not sure why so many fans continue to cheer for this core.

Okay no one cares about what a Bruins fan thinks rn. Ofc you’re on board. If you’re concerned with this with your own playoff run going that’s kinda sad too. You guys aren’t much better of a fan base either tbh.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I don’t think we can say one way or another until the playoffs.

The Leafs can't beat teams in a seven game series where they beat them 70% of the time in the regular season

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I got a lot of head shake worthy responses in this thread. A lot of people claimed I am a hater/not a true fan/perceived criticism of the team as always bashing the team/not enjoying the present for simply looking at the bigger picture and offering a different perspective which was more than valid based on historical context.

Does anyone want to man up and learn from their mistakes in the future? Or will the usual suspects just cherry pick stats to overrate the team and bash any criticism as hateful as soon as this team goes on another regular season run while hiding in the woodworks for now? As another poster put so succinctly, having the blind faith of a golden retriever and plugging your ears/shutting your eyes to anything that doesn't align with irrational optimism isn't the way being a fan works for everyone. Great teams don't lose 3 games to the 2021 habs. Maybe if some of you stopped overrating them so much the players wouldn't have such an inflated sense of self and demand ridiculous contracts (at the time) which they are willing to sit out for.

You honestly just can’t wait for the Leafs to be eliminated from the playoffs to pile on?

Are you afraid they might win this game and get past Winnipeg, so that you can’t revel in this moment of redemption? So you have to bump when everyone feels their lowest in the season?

Btw, several great teams destined for the cup lost 3 games to the lowly Leafs of the last decade. You should open your perspective a bit to how hockey works. The worst team in the league can beat the best team in the league 3 out of 7.

 

[HamiltonNHL]

I dont want a Tampa situation to happen where the Leafs coast to the playoffs then play a team who was fighting for the final 2-4 weeks to make it. I want the team ready to go when it matters most

exactly what happened

 

[HamiltonNHL]

Leafs have a ton of injuries last year + Babcock during the season and everyone loved drawing conclusions from that.

We have a ton of injuries now.

 

[ruaware41]

You honestly just can’t wait for the Leafs to be eliminated from the playoffs to pile on?

Are you afraid they might win this game and get past Winnipeg, so that you can’t revel in this moment of redemption? So you have to bump when everyone feels their lowest in the season?

Btw, several great teams destined for the cup lost 3 games to the lowly Leafs of the last decade. You should open your perspective a bit to how hockey works. The worst team in the league can beat the best team in the league 3 out of 7.

I would love for the team to win not that it would make losing 3 to the Habs impressive. I’m not going to bet on it though. I just want some fans to stop acting like complete clowns year in and year out and responding to any criticism of the team with an irrational illogical hot take equivalent to you must not be a fan or are never happy and accept that fandom manifests in different ways. Look at the clown a few posts above who finds the need to respond to every single f***ing reply ad nauseam who claimed this team is “undeniably a cup contender” despite no evidence of it aside from cherry picked stats. People like that suck the energy out of the forum not people who want open ended discussion grounded in some rationality and not blind faith at the level of a golden retriever lol. What this attitude among this fan base does which involves seriously overrating the players and the team, is it puts undue pressure on the team and unfairly inflated the players ego/belief of how good they are and they end up making ridiculous contract demands their peers don’t and are willing to sit out until those requests are obliged. That’s my angle.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

I would love for the team to win not that it would make losing 3 to the Habs impressive. I’m not going to bet on it though. I just want some fans to stop acting like complete clowns year in and year out and responding to any criticism of the team with an irrational illogical hot take equivalent to you must not be a fan or are never happy and accept that fandom manifests in different ways. Look at the clown a few posts above who finds the need to respond to every single f***ing reply ad nauseam who claimed this team is “undeniably a cup contender” despite no evidence of it aside from cherry picked stats. People like that suck the energy out of the forum not people who want open ended discussion grounded in some rationality and not blind faith at the level of a golden retriever lol. What this attitude among this fan base does which involves seriously overrating the players and the team, is it puts undue pressure on the team and unfairly inflated the players ego/belief of how good they are and they end up making ridiculous contract demands their peers don’t and are willing to sit out until those requests are obliged. That’s my angle.

How is it better to just claim we are NOT undeniably a cup contender with no evidence to the contrary? There is plenty of evidence to suggest we are cup contenders.

You’re using the fact that we are going to a game 7 as your evidence that we are not, and you’ve bumped a thread about it, and from there my original post kicks in and still holds after your reply.

The evidence points to this team being a cup contender. They perform like one in the regular season. Let’s give them allocated number of games that all other cup contenders get to prove it.

 

[93WrapAround]

You honestly just can’t wait for the Leafs to be eliminated from the playoffs to pile on?

Are you afraid they might win this game and get past Winnipeg, so that you can’t revel in this moment of redemption? So you have to bump when everyone feels their lowest in the season?

Btw, several great teams destined for the cup lost 3 games to the lowly Leafs of the last decade. You should open your perspective a bit to how hockey works. The worst team in the league can beat the best team in the league 3 out of 7.

Or are YOU afraid that many on this board overrate tf out of this team during games that are nowhere near representative of playoff hockey?

Whether the Leafs win tonight and move on or not, we can all agree that they have looked nothing like the dominant team from the regular season. That could change but this is not a bad game or two - our top players (the NHLs supposed top players) have largely disappeared for the entire series. If that doesn't already prove Team Over Confidence/No Criticism wrong, I don't know what would. The OPs sentiment was correct, like it or not.