Honest assessment of Dean Lombardi After the 2nd CUP.

[Bandit]

So say people's dreams come true and Lombardi's contract isn't renewed, and Sutter is fired. Who replaces them?

 

[King'sPawn]

So say people's dreams come true and Lombardi's contract isn't renewed, and Sutter is fired. Who replaces them?

If Lombardi goes, I would like to see Futa get his chance. For one, he has GM experience, for another it will stop teams from trying to poach him. I also think he was the cornerstone of the Kings getting the youth that started this team's turn around.

 

[Bandit]

If Lombardi goes, I would like to see Futa get his chance. For one, he has GM experience, for another it will stop teams from trying to poach him. I also think he was the cornerstone of the Kings getting the youth that started this team's turn around.

I've been generally happy with what Futa has done with the org, but if you're genuinely looking for change, how much are you going to get from a guy that's been under Lombardi for the last decade?

 

[King'sPawn]

I've been generally happy with what Futa has done with the org, but if you're genuinely looking for change, how much are you going to get from a guy that's been under Lombardi for the last decade?

I don't know if Futa marries himself to players and personnel the way Lombardi does, which has been his downfall.

 

[The Tikkanen]

Lombardi may very well be a part of the decision making as to who is hired as the next Kings GM. I think Dean gets moved up, as rumored, and a new GM being Futa or Blake or whoever the Kings brass decides should be running the show is hired. As a Kings fan I'm OK with that process, Dean will forever be a legend in LA, he brought us from mediocrity to 2 time Champions but in sports you have an expiration date. The more difficult hire is the head coach.

 

[Cassano]

So say people's dreams come true and Lombardi's contract isn't renewed, and Sutter is fired. Who replaces them?

Blake and Vigneault.

 

[KingsFan7824]

I don't know if Futa marries himself to players and personnel the way Lombardi does, which has been his downfall.

In one of those fun twists, when Lombardi got the job they said he was too married to prospects and young players. Then he wins, and becomes too married to veterans.

 

[King'sPawn]

In one of those fun twists, when Lombardi got the job they said he was too married to prospects and young players. Then he wins, and becomes too married to veterans.

Who said he was too married to prospects and young players?

 

[YP44]

So say people's dreams come true and Lombardi's contract isn't renewed, and Sutter is fired. Who replaces them?

I am not in the camp that believes either has to go, but if Sutter goes Gallant would be a welcome change. Just going with Stevens will not change the culture enough

 

[kings11]

I am not in the camp that believes either has to go, but if Sutter goes Gallant would be a welcome change. Just going with Stevens will not change the culture enough

Here's the thing though, I want a coaching change but want to keep our system. I want the heavy, hard hitting team we've always had.
I am encouraged by the youth that's been brought up lately and what we also have on the way in Amadio and Mersch..
Forbort
LaDue
Gravel
Kempe
Amadio
Brodzinski
Mersch
Dowd
All look like NHL players with some looking like more.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Who said he was too married to prospects and young players?

I believe that was a knock on him in SJ. Always looking forward. He always made a big deal about having a better record each year, but also getting younger overall at the same time. Never quite made that throw caution to the wind and take a shot sort of trade. The Selanne deal was close to that probably, or maybe it was exactly like that at the time, but Friesen didn't have the 25+ goals he was usually scoring that year. A little different than Schenn and Simmonds for Richards.

I think that's what people sere saying about Lombardi back in 2006 anyway. I could be wrong, but I know I was surprised he actually went through with the Richards trade. Mostly because it was both guys. It wasn't Schenn or Simmonds. He said screw it, we're going for it, and without Carter playing his way out of Columbus, it might've burned him.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Blake will be the next GM. Futa could have already been AGM but turned it down to remain in his position as head of scouting.

 

[Fishhead]

Here's the thing though, I want a coaching change but want to keep our system. I want the heavy, hard hitting team we've always had.
I am encouraged by the youth that's been brought up lately and what we also have on the way in Amadio and Mersch..
Forbort
LaDue
Gravel
Kempe
Amadio
Brodzinski
Mersch
Dowd
All look like NHL players with some looking like more.

Maybe two of those guys can play a heavy style, so square peg round hole and such. To play the heavy style, this team needs players like an angry Brown, Regehr, Mitchell, Greene, Stoll, Richards, and fill-ins like Fraser, King, a healthy Nolan, and a non-neutered Clifford. All those guys are gone.

And that's not anything near a group of prospects that's going to help this team contend. Mersch is a fringe guy. Only two of those guys are 20, the rest are older and aren't going to grow much more, if at all. We've likely seen the ceilings of Forbort, Gravel, LaDue, and Dowd. They will get better due to experience and adapting to the NHL game, but they aren't going to get leaps and bounds better.

 

[KINGS17]

Maybe two of those guys can play a heavy style, so square peg round hole and such. To play the heavy style, this team needs players like an angry Brown, Regehr, Mitchell, Greene, Stoll, Richards, and fill-ins like Fraser, King, a healthy Nolan, and a non-neutered Clifford. All those guys are gone.

And that's not anything near a group of prospects that's going to help this team contend. Mersch is a fringe guy. Only two of those guys are 20, the rest are older and aren't going to grow much more, if at all. We've likely seen the ceilings of Forbort, Gravel, LaDue, and Dowd. They will get better due to experience and adapting to the NHL game, but they aren't going to get leaps and bounds better.

Fish is right on the money. I see a lot of lineups being listed for next year with Kempe, Mersch and Dowd in the lineup up front along with Forbort, LaDue and Gravel on the back end. Then the poster will go on to say it's the lineup of a contender.

Not even close.

 

[kings11]

Fish is right on the money. I see a lot of lineups being listed for next year with Kempe, Mersch and Dowd in the lineup up front along with Forbort, LaDue and Gravel on the back end. Then the poster will go on to say it's the lineup of a contender.

Not even close.

Contend for a PO spot absolutely, a Cup not even close....
this system and team absolutely rely on heavy hitting forwards that can grind and set themselves in front of the net... all the things we currently lack in our top 9
The defense was ferocious and slobberknocking but that faded with Mitchell, Scuderi, Greene and Regher.. guys we never replaced and at the prices we got them for we likely never will...
But to say we've seen the best out of Forbort, LaDue and Gravel is extremely shortsighted and naive.
Keep in mind the only kid that's gotten real run is Forbort with the other two getting gradual PT.

 

[deeshamrock]

I am not in the camp that believes either has to go, but if Sutter goes Gallant would be a welcome change. Just going with Stevens will not change the culture enough

I really like him and I think Rowe in all 'all analytics all the time, all over the place' is backfiring badly. He did a very solid job for that team last year and their playoff berth was tied to that. He deserved a much better fate.
He is truly a players coach , who was both liked and respected by his team but his old school approach was not the fit that Rowe and his graphics and data laden charts wanted.
I think his emphasis on toughness and being unpleasant to play against is close enough to the color the Kings have had that it wouldn't be a drastic change and maybe that would help with the transition.
He's a very good coach who will have a few teams come courting I think, by June.

 

[KINGS17]

Contend for a PO spot absolutely, a Cup not even close....
this system and team absolutely rely on heavy hitting forwards that can grind and set themselves in front of the net... all the things we currently lack in our top 9
The defense was ferocious and slobberknocking but that faded with Mitchell, Scuderi, Greene and Regher.. guys we never replaced and at the prices we got them for we likely never will...
But to say we've seen the best out of Forbort, LaDue and Gravel is extremely shortsighted and naive.
Keep in mind the only kid that's gotten real run is Forbort with the other two getting gradual PT.

No one said we have seen the best from these players. I believe someone said they will get better with experience. I said the Kings can't expect to contend with this many rookies on the blue line.

 

[Fishhead]

No one said we have seen the best from these players. I believe someone said they will get better with experience. I said the Kings can't expect to contend with this many rookies on the blue line.

Exactly. They are going to improve a bit, but players 24+ rarely make big jumps in ability. We will have more comfortable, smarter versions of what we have now. They aren't going to change their stripes into heavy hitters or prolific scorers.

I want our young blueline and forwards to succeed, but the more I see of them, the more I see 8-10 seeds for the future. If Doughty, Muzzin, and Martinez all play at peak form, then the D is in good shape. Kempe, Brodzinski, and Amadio are going to have to play at higher than expected levels, barring a complete turnaround from Brown and Gaborik.

It's a lot of dominos that have to fall into place for this team to even make the playoffs now, once weak teams are growing stronger. This team is clearly 5th best in their division right now.

And it's nothing against our prospects at all, many of them are doing great compared to expectations. We can't expect all of them to overachieve though, given where they were drafted. They just don't have the pedigree. Look at the 2013-2014 team for example:

1st rounders: 10
2nd rounders: 5
3rd rounders: 2
4th rounders: 2
5th +: 3
Undrafted: 1

Then the current roster:

1st rounders: 9
2nd rounders: 2
3rd rounders: 5
4th rounders: 1
5th +: 6

In 2014, our first rounders were having an impact. Not so much anymore. Since we traded some picks and prospects away, the shift towards relying on lower picks is evident. It wouldn't be such a big deal if our first rounders were still pulling their weight, but a lot of them aren't. Gaborik has been a shell of himself, Brown has been better, but not what he was. And the numbers are only going to shift more going forward. All 3 1st rounders since 2010 are already on the roster.

Draft position isn't the be-all-end all, but players get drafted later for a reason. Once you get past round 3 (1/3 end up NHL players) it's pretty much a 1/5 or 1/6 hit rate. It's a testament to our development that the organization can churn out players from lower picks like they do, but it's not how you build a cup contender. It will keep you on the fringe of the playoffs if you are lucky.

So do the Kings hope for the dominos to fall correctly? After the ****** luck that was this year, it's not far fetched that they could. I know most want a retool, but we don't have a kick-ass prospect pool to refill from within. It's a challenge for certain.

 

[kings11]

No one said we have seen the best from these players. I believe someone said they will get better with experience. I said the Kings can't expect to contend with this many rookies on the blue line.

Someone stated that we've likely seen the best/peak out of the trio because of their age...

 

[kings11]

I think the sample size for LaDue and Gravel is too small to really put a cap on their ceiling whereas Forbort has looked the part of a top4 Dman with Willie Mitchell type qualities... granted I wish the kid showed his nasty side a bit more, he does step up for his teammates and defensively makes the simple plays our vets have for some reason lost the ability to do ..

 

[KINGS17]

I think the sample size for LaDue and Gravel is too small to really put a cap on their ceiling whereas Forbort has looked the part of a top4 Dman with Willie Mitchell type qualities... granted I wish the kid showed his nasty side a bit more, he does step up for his teammates and defensively makes the simple plays our vets have for some reason lost the ability to do ..

I think the point Fish is trying to make is these guys really aren't "kids".

Forbort 25 years of age

LaDue 24 yeas of age

Gravel 25 years of age

No one is saying these three can't be solid NHL defensemen, but if they were talented enough to really make a difference, they wouldn't be breaking in at these ages.

We can hope they all turn into "Jake Muzzins", but chances are they won't. Muzzin played a significant number of NHL games at age 23. See the difference?

 

[kings11]

I think the point Fish is trying to make is these guys really aren't "kids".

Forbort 25 years of age

LaDue 24 yeas of age

Gravel 25 years of age

No one is saying these three can't be solid NHL defensemen, but if they were talented enough to really make a difference, they wouldn't be breaking in at these ages.

We can hope they all turn into "Jake Muzzins", but chances are they won't. Muzzin played a significant number of NHL games at age 23. See the difference?

I absolutely see what was mentioned by both you guys
However, when I look at our system of play and the correlation between production on the farm vs the NHL, our Dmen put up amazingly close numbers to those in the minors.
Where it's usually a crap shoot with our Fwds in terms of what we get, our Dmen tend to translate in production and overall play ..
so I'm a little more optimistic that they'll make more than jump minor jumps in overall play

 

[kings11]

I think the point Fish is trying to make is these guys really aren't "kids".

Forbort 25 years of age

LaDue 24 yeas of age

Gravel 25 years of age

No one is saying these three can't be solid NHL defensemen, but if they were talented enough to really make a difference, they wouldn't be breaking in at these ages.

We can hope they all turn into "Jake Muzzins", but chances are they won't. Muzzin played a significant number of NHL games at age 23. See the difference?

I absolutely see what was mentioned by both you guys
However, when I look at our system of play and the correlation between production on the farm vs the NHL, our Dmen put up amazingly close numbers to those in the minors.
Where it's usually a crap shoot with our Fwds in terms of what we get, our Dmen tend to translate in production and overall play ..
so I'm a little more optimistic that they'll make more than jump minor jumps in overall play

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

I think the point Fish is trying to make is these guys really aren't "kids".

Forbort 25 years of age

LaDue 24 yeas of age

Gravel 25 years of age

No one is saying these three can't be solid NHL defensemen, but if they were talented enough to really make a difference, they wouldn't be breaking in at these ages.

We can hope they all turn into "Jake Muzzins", but chances are they won't. Muzzin played a significant number of NHL games at age 23. See the difference?

Dude. they were literally in college and unable to play pro

And then they had a literal Stanley Cup winning d-core to crack that they couldn't until Willie Mitchell, Slava Voynov, etc. left. Tall order to expect rookies of any age to be better than those guys. Doesn't mean they're not difference makers. ESPECIALLY as d-men, where the average break-in has to be much higher.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

When's the last time DL commented on anything...would be nice to see the dude acknowledge the **** show that's been in full effect for the last month.