Honest assessment of Dean Lombardi After the 2nd CUP.

[Ziggy Stardust]

Who was the last player Dean Lombardi acquired via trade who had term or wasn't a soon to be UFA?

Was it McNabb? If so, that was three years ago! I don't know what that says about Dean Lombardi as a GM. That's just not good, at all.

 

[Ollie Weeks]

I think Dean changed the culture of the franchise and should always be in the organization in some capacity, but I do think it's time to let Futa take over as GM.

I don't want to see a return to the "let's hire former Kings player" mentality when it comes to hiring for executive positions in the hockey personnel area.

I think the Sekera trade was fine and at the time I advocated moving Martinez for a forward prospect to clear salary cap space for Sekera.

In retrospect, I don't get the Lucic deal at all.

I love Martinez, but looking back, this may have been a wise move.

 

[damacles1156]

Who was the last player Dean Lombardi acquired via trade who had term or wasn't a soon to be UFA?

Was it McNabb? If so, that was three years ago! I don't know what that says about Dean Lombardi as a GM. That's just not good, at all.

I can't remember the last guy that was traded mid season with a good contract in the entire NHL, other than Jeff Carter.

Has anyone with a decent contract been traded in the last few years mid season ?

That's a serious question.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I can't remember the last guy that was traded mid season with a good contract in the entire NHL, other than Jeff Carter.

Has anyone with a decent contract been traded in the last few years mid season ?

That's a serious question.

Ryan Johansen for Seth Jones last year. Also the Pens acquiring Hagelin.

A year before that, probably the Evander Kane/Zach Bogosian for Tyler Myers/Drew Stafford trade. The Wild also landed Dubnyk. The Isles landed both Nick Leddy and Johnny Boychuck via trade but they made those deals in October.

And in 2013-14, the Panthers landed Luongo for Markstrom, the Habs got Dale Weise who was exceptional for them, and the Flames got Colborne from the Leafs before the start of the season.

Of course there were a few blockbuster moves this past offseason, but regardless of when the trades took place, it's been three years since Dean made a trade that didn't involve him acquiring a rental.

That's the very definition of myopia.

 

[damacles1156]

Honestly the Kings wouldn't want Bishop with term, the guy makes north of Five million (Cap hit wise).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Honestly the Kings wouldn't want Bishop with term, the guy makes north of Five million (Cap hit wise).

Oh I know, I'm just talking in general when it comes to any trades Lombardi has struck since then have all been short sighted. That fact just proves it.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

Drip, drip, drip. There go our high picks.
Drip, drip, drip. There go our prospects.
Traded-for player wanted too much to stay. We lost him for nothing. Oops.
Drip, drip, drip.
Traded-for player not liked by Sutter. We lost him for nothing.
There goes the pick. There goes the prospect. There goes the back-up goalie.
There goes the pick. There goes the prospect. Got a couple of rentals. Okay.
Traded-for player wanted too much to stay. We lost him for nothing. Oops.
Resources leak out, pool is drained, team is slowly circling around the drain.

 

[Pandaman11]

I think the Bishop trade is like Boston getting Martin Jones. They only used him as bait to get a 1st rounder because we wouldn't have traded him to a division rival. There must be an Eastern team willing to give up assets that Yzerman wouldn't have traded him to.

At least that's what I hope for.

 

[KingsFan7824]

1. Linden Vey traded for a 2nd round pick.

Vey hasn't done much of anything since.

2. Same off-season doesn't buyout Mike Richards without a penalty.

A self-inflicted mistake, without a doubt.

3. Gives Gaborik a 7 year deal.

You'd be hard pressed to find a GM that wouldn't have tried to sign Gaborik coming off that playoff at the time. Easy to now say he just got hot, and whatever else. He still ended up with the 2nd most goals, and best goals per game, for the team in 14-15.

4. Trades Mckeown(the 2nd round pick from the Vancouver trade) and a 1st round pick for Sekera.

McKeown still isn't doing anything either. Had Voynov not happened, Sekera probably doesn't either. The defending champs still had a chance at the time of the trade though.

Next Season
1. Trades Martin Jones, 1st round pick, and Colin Miller for Lucic.

Jones had little value for the Kings at the time, the guy a lot of people wanted with the pick isn't currently helping an NHL team, and Miller isn't a top 4 defenseman in Boston.

2. Trades Jordan Weal and a 3rd round pick for Lecavalier and Luke Schenn.

Ended up as a solid deal. Weal hasn't done much either.

3. Trades Zykov and a 5th round pick for Versteeg.

Zykov hasn't done much of anything either.

This Season so far.
1. Trades Gilbert for a conditional 7th round pick.

A nothing trade, for a nothing player, for a nothing pick.

2. Trades Cernak, Budaj and a 7th round pick for Bishop and a 5th round pick. (plus conditional pick from the Kings)

TBD.

The two biggest things for me are Voynov screwing things up, and then the team actually missing the playoffs in 2015, which gave Carolina the 2016 pick. If they had at least made the playoffs that year, I think things unfold differently after that season in some form or fashion.

 

[KingsFan7824]

Who was the last player Dean Lombardi acquired via trade who had term or wasn't a soon to be UFA?

Was it McNabb? If so, that was three years ago! I don't know what that says about Dean Lombardi as a GM. That's just not good, at all.

They have so many guys with multi-year deals, and have had to give a number of guys raises the last few years, that they can't bring in guys with term unless they trade guys with term. That's sort of the general outline for a cap world anyway. Identify your core, and then bring in whatever pieces each year. I know, I know, the Hawks are great, but that's because the guys they're paying are producing. Their young guys aren't running the ship there.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

They have so many guys with multi-year deals, and have had to give a number of guys raises the last few years, that they can't bring in guys with term unless they trade guys with term. That's sort of the general outline for a cap world anyway. Identify your core, and then bring in whatever pieces each year. I know, I know, the Hawks are great, but that's because the guys they're paying are producing. Their young guys aren't running the ship there.

They still have to produce, and as far as I can tell, they're getting that out of Anisimov (Saad trade), Panik (acquired from Toronto for well traveled bust, Jeremy Morin), and of course Panarin (unsigned free agent from the KHL).

The last two free agent prospects the Kings discovered who made any impact were Jake Muzzin and Martin Jones. Muzzin was signed in 2009, Jones was signed in 2008.

 

[johnjm22]

The Lucic trade is the one that bothers me the most.

He could have just retained Williams for relatively cheap and traded Jones for a 1st.

 

[Omni Owl]

The Lucic trade is the one that bothers me the most.

He could have just retained Williams for relatively cheap and traded Jones for a 1st.

Exactly, it was an awful trade. The fact that Jones ended up on the Sharks makes it even worse. They should have retained Williams, the team still needs that veteran presence.

 

[KingsFan7824]

They still have to produce, and as far as I can tell, they're getting that out of Anisimov (Saad trade), Panik (acquired from Toronto for well traveled bust, Jeremy Morin), and of course Panarin (unsigned free agent from the KHL).

The last two free agent prospects the Kings discovered who made any impact were Jake Muzzin and Martin Jones. Muzzin was signed in 2009, Jones was signed in 2008.

Which is all great for Chicago. The Kings aren't getting enough from the guys they pay a lot of money to.

The Lucic trade is the one that bothers me the most.

He could have just retained Williams for relatively cheap and traded Jones for a 1st.

Or maybe he couldn't. We don't know exactly what Williams did or did not want. Maybe he wanted 3 years from the Kings. Maybe he wanted a NTC. Maybe he wanted 1 year at $5m. Maybe he just wanted to stay.

If Lombardi could've gotten a 1st for Jones, he would've done it. He wasn't getting that from SJ. Every other GM knew the Kings had no leverage with Jones, because of Quick. Maybe a team in the East. Maybe Buffalo would've done it instead of Lehner, but he was signed for 2 more years when he got traded, and at less money than what SJ gave Jones.

Exactly, it was an awful trade. The fact that Jones ended up on the Sharks makes it even worse. They should have retained Williams, the team still needs that veteran presence.

Well if you go by what's been said, SJ might've signed Jones to an offer sheet, even the same $3m he signed for, which the Kings couldn't match, and all the Kings end up with would've been a single 2nd round pick as compensation.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Which is all great for Chicago. The Kings aren't getting enough from the guys they pay a lot of money to.

They're also not getting enough from their GM and scouts. And who gave out those big money contracts to the players who are failing to produce?

 

[funky]

The Lucic trade is the one that bothers me the most.

He could have just retained Williams for relatively cheap and traded Jones for a 1st.

This one bugs me the least actually. We were one season from the cup and he had not money. He gambled on a pedigreed power forward to play with Kopitar and Gabby leaving that 70's line intact and on paper a very lethal top 6

Williams played his way out of LA so I don't see why people think he was even an option. He flat out sucked the year pry and if anyone thinks different they are attaching themselves to players like Lombardi seems to have done i.e.) Richards, Greene, etc

Jones looked like a great goalie but Quick took the team to the promise land two times, proven warrior. As much promise as Jones had Lombardi wanted the garenteed thing. Millar was also promising defenseman but couldn't play defense which wouldn't fly in our system

In my eyes it's more of Lombardi's commitment to overpriced and overturned contracts given to easily replaceable players such as green, the non by out of Richard's, The overturned Gabby contract, in the long term contracts to bottom liner's such as Louis and Clifford that have killed this team.

I do however have to cut him a little slack as not every team can survive their number two defenceman leaving the team for a non-hockey related incident as well as their number to centre falling off the face of the earth midseason for it also appears to be no hockey related reasons.

Lombardi commented that the Richard's incident took a lot out of him. In my eyes he still has not recovered from it and maybe needs to step into another rule with less pressure. I will be forever grateful for what he has brought this team but at the same time this team should not have gone south the way it has even with the Voynov and Richard incidents.

 

[Calirose]

This Bishop trade is a testament to Lombardi's consummate genius. The fact that the Kings, of all teams, landed Bishop is sheer irony, given their wealth between the pipes as it stands. The fact that The Kings don't have to face Bishop on the way to their next cup is almost reason, in itself, for this trade. Teams with more sore goalie needs ought be rattled to find that Bishop was avalailable at this price. The fact that Lombardi found this value, speaks to Lombardi's commitment to creatively finding ways to improve his team. Clearly he is persuing improvement and all avenues to it. If Bishop isn't the BPA at that price, I'd ask who is? Moreover, Quick's game relies heavily on his flexibility, something we expect to diminish quickly with age, Bishop, on the other hand, relies on being huge, something that will not change. Smart trade, value trade & safe trade.

 

[PJ Kings Hockey]

My computer ate my post. He's the short version:

Lombardi has done an overall terrible job with trades. He traded 1st-round picks and 2nd-round prospects for players who clearly were looking for juicy retirement contracts. It was no secret. We gave up a lot for players who are now playing for other teams in our division. Sekera, Lucic, Versteeg, Jones. Miller is playing for Boston. A first pick here, a first here, a first there, a third there, etc., etc., it all adds up. We had 4 picks last draft! One can argue that those prospects traded aren't guaranteed future NHL players, but they were our top choices in drafts. Our rivals kept getting better and better and all we have left in our prospect pool is mid-to-late rounders. We need to draft and develop more Tanner Pearsons (1st-round) and Tyler Toffolis (2nd-round).

Now for the good. While Dean's done some real stinkers in gambling on questionable trades, the scouts have given us some NHL-caliber players out of the mid-to-late rounds. Dowd, 7th, Gravel, 5th, LaDue, 6th. Colin Miller was a 5th-round pick. Bartosak would have been a strong goaltending prospect from the 5th round if he hadn't engaged in domestic violence and ended his career in this country. Bottom-6 and bottom-4 players that are nice complements to a team. Brodzinski in Ontario is probably the next one to get a chance and he's a 5th-rounder.

I'm a Lombardi fan. I hope he turns it around.

 

[TradeMadeMeSignUp]

This Bishop trade is a testament to Lombardi's consummate genius. The fact that the Kings, of all teams, landed Bishop is sheer irony, given their wealth between the pipes as it stands. The fact that The Kings don't have to face Bishop on the way to their next cup is almost reason, in itself, for this trade. Teams with more sore goalie needs ought be rattled to find that Bishop was avalailable at this price. The fact that Lombardi found this value, speaks to Lombardi's commitment to creatively finding ways to improve his team. Clearly he is persuing improvement and all avenues to it. If Bishop isn't the BPA at that price, I'd ask who is? Moreover, Quick's game relies heavily on his flexibility, something we expect to diminish quickly with age, Bishop, on the other hand, relies on being huge, something that will not change. Smart trade, value trade & safe trade.

Yeah, you're right. Quick sure is going to age a lot for the few months the Kings have Bishop. You realize he's a UFA who the Kings won't even try to retain right? You know what would have been a smart trade? Waiting and using those assets and cap space for a F, what the team actually needs. Just go look at the stats, Budaj > Bishop so far in 2016-2017. No guarantee he outperforms Budaj even from here on out.

And whoever mentioned that any GM would have tried to sign Gaborik, yes you're right. NO GM would give him 7 freakn years. The guy is a walking talking injury waiting to happen. Also people act like giving away prospects is no big deal, Cernak was a 2nd rounder so they either suck at drafting or it's a big deal. And it doesn't even matter if the guy fails miserably and never touches NHL ice, it's still an asset at the time of the trade to get something you NEED.

 

[KingsFan7824]

They're also not getting enough from their GM and scouts. And who gave out those big money contracts to the players who are failing to produce?

Back when the contract was signed, or even in September, did you see Kopitar with 6 goals at this point of the season? Gaborik was 2nd on the team in goals, and 1st in goals per game, in 14-15. That will always be the #1 wasted season, on multiple levels, for this core. Other than Brown's less than great 2013 playoff, was there any indication he was going to fall off a cliff with a year left on his previous sweetheart contract? Gaborik was needed in 13-14 in part because Brown stopped scoring, so they took a shot with a UFA. Then Gaborik produced too much in the playoffs, and it was tough to trust Brown going forward, so you spend a little more to keep the guy that scores around on the team. All of these contracts are killing the roster at the moment, that's true.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Yeah, you're right. Quick sure is going to age a lot for the few months the Kings have Bishop. You realize he's a UFA who the Kings won't even try to retain right? You know what would have been a smart trade? Waiting and using those assets and cap space for a F, what the team actually needs. Just go look at the stats, Budaj > Bishop so far in 2016-2017. No guarantee he outperforms Budaj even from here on out.

And whoever mentioned that any GM would have tried to sign Gaborik, yes you're right. NO GM would give him 7 freakn years. The guy is a walking talking injury waiting to happen. Also people act like giving away prospects is no big deal, Cernak was a 2nd rounder so they either suck at drafting or it's a big deal. And it doesn't even matter if the guy fails miserably and never touches NHL ice, it's still an asset at the time of the trade to get something you NEED.

What forward are you getting for Cernak, Budaj, and a 7th?

 

[TradeMadeMeSignUp]

They have so many guys with multi-year deals, and have had to give a number of guys raises the last few years, that they can't bring in guys with term unless they trade guys with term. That's sort of the general outline for a cap world anyway. Identify your core, and then bring in whatever pieces each year. I know, I know, the Hawks are great, but that's because the guys they're paying are producing. Their young guys aren't running the ship there.

While this is true, it's still Lombardi's fault.
It's Lombardi's fault Mike Richards is still a cap hit.
It's Lombardi's fault Marian Gaborik is a 4.8M + cap hit.
It's Lombardi's fault Greene was given an extension and is still a cap hit.
Dustin Brown is playing better than the last few years this year but he's still overpaid.
Anze Kopitar is a 10M dollar cap hit, he is the 4th highest paid player in the nhl this current season (14M salary this year). He's 121st in scoring, he's a minus player at the moment. So who takes the blame? Kopitar for being trash all year or Lombardi for surrounding him with trash all year?
Jeff Carter and arguably Quick are the only good veteran contracts on the entire team.

It's a WHOLE lot of assets given away, yes literally GIVEN away now, combined with a bunch of bad contracts, and overall just a crappy situation someone else will have to fix. A trade for something they need is for a Forward which can obviously still happen. Ideally they'd need to trade Martinez or Muzzin so they can hold on to both Pearson and Toffoli, not to mention the huge Doughty extension that's coming up as well. Realistically I'd be happy if Martinez was traded for a pick and an expansion draft exempt prospect or roster player (this would also allow them to protect someone else, Dowd or Forbort) because it would help relieve some cap space but you know Dean isn't about to do that because he's trying to save his own ass from being shown the door.

 

[TradeMadeMeSignUp]

What forward are you getting for Cernak, Budaj, and a 7th?

Nobody that can actually help but having Budaj and not Bishop means more CAP SPACE and more realistic options for a Forward. Cernak is a D prospect, don't act like a d prospect can't be used as a part of a trade for a top 6 forward. He wouldn't be the main piece but he's still a piece you no longer have.

 

[KINGS17]

This Bishop trade is a testament to Lombardi's consummate genius. The fact that the Kings, of all teams, landed Bishop is sheer irony, given their wealth between the pipes as it stands. The fact that The Kings don't have to face Bishop on the way to their next cup is almost reason, in itself, for this trade. Teams with more sore goalie needs ought be rattled to find that Bishop was avalailable at this price. The fact that Lombardi found this value, speaks to Lombardi's commitment to creatively finding ways to improve his team. Clearly he is persuing improvement and all avenues to it. If Bishop isn't the BPA at that price, I'd ask who is? Moreover, Quick's game relies heavily on his flexibility, something we expect to diminish quickly with age, Bishop, on the other hand, relies on being huge, something that will not change. Smart trade, value trade & safe trade.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

Nobody that can actually help but having Budaj and not Bishop means more CAP SPACE and more realistic options for a Forward. Cernak is a D prospect, don't act like a d prospect can't be used as a part of a trade for a top 6 forward. He wouldn't be the main piece but he's still a piece you no longer have.

We have enough cap space to trade for any forward in the league at this point in the season. That's not the issue. The issue is assets, and it's twofold now, and we're seeing that DL is now damned if he does, damned if he doesnt--on one hand, people are saying hold on to prospects and picks; on the other, DL needs to trade for a forward. No matter what happens, the deadline will pass, and he'll be lambasted for whichever one happens. That's the only thing I take issue with.

Yes, a d prospect can be used to trade for a forward, but Cernak isn't enough leverage for a top-six guy.