HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 8

[MadArcand]

Moog ran into a lot of strong opposition in the playoffs. His teams were eliminated by:

93 Sabres
94 Canucks
97 Oilers

Is this a joke? .512, .506, .494. "Strong opposition, Liut killed by breeze."

Meanwhile the reality of Liut's opponents (bolded if worse record than Liut's team's):
.544 CHI
.463 NYR
.450 CHI
.650 CHI
.550 MIN
.544 MTL
.450 QUE
.644 MTL
.631 BOS
.550 PIT
2/10

Out of 10 series he lost, only twice did Liut lose to an inferior team. Superpowered Habs, Bruins & Pens apparently count for nothing.

Meanwhile Fuhr's losses:
.556 CGY
.569 LAK
.425 MIN
.607 MTL
.573 DET
.628 DET
.695 DAL
2/7

Moog's losses:
.688 NYI
.600 NYI
.619 EDM
.719 MTL
.563 EDM
.550 PIT
.544 PIT
.512 BUF
.506 VAN
.729 DET
.494 EDM
.543 BUF
5/12

Liut and Fuhr similar, Moog far behind, QED

 

[The Pale King]

Regular season points vs. playoff opponent is not a metric I've really considered before. But just because I'm curious, all six of J. Quick's series losses were to teams that finished ahead of the Kings in the standings. He never lost to an underdog. He also looks damn good in the series clinching/elimination games table. All of this is exactly what the eye test would tell you.

The only times his teams had a higher points percentage than their playoff opponents was against the Devils and Rangers in the Stanley Cup finals, and once against the Sharks in 2012-13. And he won all of those matchups. The Blackhawks and Kings had an identical points percentage in 2013-14, the second year they met in the WCF. Los Angeles won that series as well, as we all know.

 

[blogofmike]

Is this a joke? .512, .506, .494. "Strong opposition, Liut killed by breeze."

Meanwhile the reality of Liut's opponents (bolded if worse record than Liut's team's):
.544 CHI
.463 NYR
.450 CHI
.650 CHI
.550 MIN
.544 MTL
.450 QUE
.644 MTL
.631 BOS
.550 PIT
2/10

Out of 10 series he lost, only twice did Liut lose to an inferior team. Superpowered Habs, Bruins & Pens apparently count for nothing.

Meanwhile Fuhr's losses:
.556 CGY
.569 LAK
.425 MIN
.607 MTL
.573 DET
.628 DET
.695 DAL
2/7

Moog's losses:
.688 NYI
.600 NYI
.619 EDM
.719 MTL
.563 EDM
.550 PIT
.544 PIT
.512 BUF
.506 VAN
.729 DET
.494 EDM
.543 BUF
5/12

Liut and Fuhr similar, Moog far behind, QED

No joke.

In the quote I've highlighted the Stanley Cup Finals teams in blue and the other guys in red.

Before the loss to the 86 Habs, in the round immediately after defeating Liut, the combined record of every team that beat him is a very breezy 1-20 (his Blues career).

The 86 Habs and 91 Pens are the only teams that went on to win another playoff round in Liut's list.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Tuukka Rask
Regular Season
I actually really like Tuukka compared to modern age goalies. In an age when consistency is terribly hard to come by, where goalies are getting nominated for Vezinas one year just to fall off the face of the earth the next, Tuukka was the model of consistency.

I posted this a couple rounds earlier in a post about Luongo, I'll post again.

Of notable retired goalies (plus Fleury and Quick) who hit their primes after 2000 and may come up for discussion, here is how this consistency compares.

Percentage of Full Seasons With Above Average SV%
1. Rask - 100% (12/12)
2. Luongo - 84% (16/19)
3. Lundqvist - 80% (12/15)
4. Thomas - 75% (6/8)
5. Holtby - 70% (7/10)
6. Fleury - 65% (13/20)
7. Nabokov - 64% (9/14)
8. Brodeur post 2000 - 64% (9/14)
9. Quick - 59% (10/17)
10. Price - 57% (8/14)
11. Kiprusoff - 55% (6/11)
12. Rinne - 54% (7/13)

Rask is the ONLY goalie to never fall below average in SV% his entire career even compared to legends already inducted.

His QS% is a .608 throughout his career. Notably ahead of other contemporaries like Price (.574), Rinne (.572), Holtby (.571), Quick (.531), and Fleury (.551).

His prime regular season years are also pretty good:

2010: 1st in SV%, 8th in GSAx, 3rd in GSAA, 5th All Star, 7th Vezina
2011-2012: best backup in the league to prime Tim Thomas
2013: 3rd in SV%, 2nd in GSAx, 4th in GSAA, 4th All Star, 5th Vezina
2014: 2nd in SV%, 12th in GSAx (interesting), 2nd in GSAA, 1st All Star, 1st Vezina
2015-2019: .917 SV%, easily top 5 goalie in this time
2020: 2nd in SV%, 2nd in GSAx, 1st in GSAA, 2nd All Star, 2nd Vezina

Playoffs
People also like to shoot down his playoffs, but it is of note that he led the playoffs in SV% three times for starting goalies who made it past the first round (2013, 2014, 2019) and his career playoff SV% is a .925, up from his regular season. Not the full picture, definitely some asterisks there but he's hardly a bad playoff goalie.

Someone commented about the 2013 finals meltdown, but I find that hard to put that on Rask. In the final two minutes he gives up two goals but the tying goal is a cross-crease one timer where Lucic fails to pick up his man after an insane Patty Kane zone entry and Toews pass. The shot is almost from in the crease, and the Hawks had 6 men on the attack. Not on Rask. The winning goal comes off of an insane redirect followed by a rebound off the post - another shot from in the crease where Boychuk was caught puck watching instead of covering his man. Again, not on Rask. He still had a .932 SV% that series and a .940 SV% (!!!) all playoffs. He likely would have won the Conn Smythe that year had Boston won.

Fun fact he also handed Crosby his only sweep ever until the 2019 playoffs that year with a .985 SV%.

Another fun fact is that he had a .938 in the four 2014 Olympics games he played and a .920 SV% in the two 2016 World Cup games he played.

The Bads (kinda?)
Now, he never peaked very high for very long, but he still has his 2014 Vezina season, his 2020 Vezina runner up year, and even his 2010 rookie season where he led the league in SV%. His GSAx (MoneyPuck) stats also have him second in the league in 2013 as well.

It is important to note that he did retire early due to injury and never had that downward trajectory that many other goalies have. But he still has 12 seasons with above average SV% which is more than anyone listed except for Fleury and Lu who both played 20 and 19 seasons respectively.

In terms of playoffs, his 2010 meltdown againt Philly sticks out, his 2014 series against Montreal sucked (although the first round against Detroit was a clinic), both his 2018 series aren't great. Game 7 of the SCF against St. Louis was bad but the other six games were good to great. His final series against the Isles sucked. But overall I'd say he's 12 for 17 in playoff series (worst case 10 for 17 depending on how you rate the 2019 finals and 2017 against Ottawa), that's still pretty good.

He also played on a very defensive Bruins team his whole career. How you adjust for that is going to be up to you. You surely can't blame him for that though.

Final Thoughts
Rask is maybe the most consistently good goalie of the 2010s. You can pretty much always count on him to put up an above average game.

His peak is also solid, a fist and a second Vezina season is great. Never was the best goalie in the world for more than one season at a time maybe, but who was when getting this far down the list? His playoffs are great, right about in line with his regular season performances if not a bit better - again, consistency.

On a personal note I also love his playstyle. You almost never caught him out of position, he was very calm in net, barely ever overreacted. Even if you watch his highlight reel desperation saves, it's never because he overcommited to a puck or flailed out of position and used his athleticism to recover (like Fleury for example), the saves are all from his puck tracking and fast reaction timing that were literally the most efficient way to make the stop. That kind of stability puts a team at ease.

Always great to see a long, thoughtful post from a non-participant.

I'm sure Mike Farkas (and a few others) might have similar comments, but if you take Rask's numbers at face value, he's probably deserving for this round. The question is - how much are those numbers due to Rask himself, and how much of it is him playing in front of such a responsible, disciplined team?

During the span of Rask's career, Bruins goalies, aside from Rask himself, had a 91.9% save percentage, which is barely lower than Rask's 92.1%. And aside from 159 games of Tim Thomas, this wasn't exactly a great group of netminders (a past-his-prime Jaroslav Halak - who posted his best numbers in seven years, Anton Khodobin, Chad Johnson, Jonas Gustavsson, etc).

Rask won a Vezina, and had years where he finished 2nd, 5th and 7th. (I wouldn't give much weight to his additional 7th place finish from 2010, which was a result of literally one vote). So perhaps the argument is, the voters knew he was good, despite playing on such a strong team. But the "team effects" argument seems to be the main strike against Rask at this point.

 

[AlfiesHair]

Always great to see a long, thoughtful post from a non-participant.

I'm sure Mike Farkas (and a few others) might have similar comments, but if you take Rask's numbers at face value, he's probably deserving for this round. The question is - how much are those numbers due to Rask himself, and how much of it is him playing in front of such a responsible, disciplined team?

During the span of Rask's career, Bruins goalies, aside from Rask himself, had a 91.9% save percentage, which is barely lower than Rask's 92.1%. And aside from 159 games of Tim Thomas, this wasn't exactly a great group of netminders (a past-his-prime Jaroslav Halak - who posted his best numbers in seven years, Anton Khodobin, Chad Johnson, Jonas Gustavsson, etc).

Rask won a Vezina, and had years where he finished 2nd, 5th and 7th. (I wouldn't give much weight to his additional 7th place finish from 2010, which was a result of literally one vote). So perhaps the argument is, the voters knew he was good, despite playing on such a strong team. But the "team effects" argument seems to be the main strike against Rask at this point.

Why thank you!

I gotta agree with you a little. Rask's 12th place GSAx finish winning him the Vezina Trophy is maybe the best quantitative way to show this. It's the lowest a Vezina winner has ever done according to MoneyPuck's model. Normally they're at least in the top 3.

So for full transparency's sake, not to advocate for any one goalie, it is clear even statistically that Rask benefited from a strong defence. If we take GSAx as the evolution of GSAA so as to account for shot quality a little, here is what we find.

GSAA finishes ranked - 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 8th, 12th, 19th, 21st, 24th, 25th, 29th, 41st

GSAx finishes ranked - 2nd, 2nd, 8th, 12th, 13th, 16th, 16th, 18th, 25th, 27th, 42nd, 59th

It seems to be clear that he certainly benefited from some easier shots than the average goalie over his career. Makes sense with two of the best defensive defensemen and forwards of all time with him his whole career.

EDIT: In 2010, sure he only got one Vezina vote to make him 7th, but he got 12 in postseason all star voting. Still only around 2% as the top three separated themselves pretty cleanly from the pack but stats also show he was around the top five best goalies that year.

 

[MadArcand]

No joke.

In the quote I've highlighted the Stanley Cup Finals teams in blue and the other guys in red.

Before the loss to the 86 Habs, in the round immediately after defeating Liut, the combined record of every team that beat him is a very breezy 1-20 (his Blues career).

The 86 Habs and 91 Pens are the only teams that went on to win another playoff round in Liut's list.

More joking I see. I don't know why you obsess over the Blues part of his career, when it's less than half of it, but whatever. You don't see how that's 100% a function of being on a bad team as opposed to being on a powerhouse like Moog was for 75% or his career? If your team is Oilers/Bruins, you should make the conference finals and thus automatically lose to a cup finalist. If you're Blues/Whalers, a 1st round loss is expected.

Btw:
1980 Chicago got swept by .688 Buffalo, hardly surprising
1981 Rangers swept by the Isles... LOL
1982 Chicago goes 1-4 vs. Canucks, that's bad
1983 Chicago wins 4-1 vs. Minny... So your 1-20 stat is a lie. Loses later to Oilers, what a shocker.
1984 Minny loses to Oilers... What a surprise again.

 

[AlfiesHair]

On the note of GSAx - especially considering the amount of modern goalies, here are those with the best records since the stat has been recorded. I know there are a handful of solid models and there are still contextual issues with the stat but it is maybe the best singular goalie stat we can get. At least something to look at in my opinion.

Top 10 GSAx Finishes (MoneyPuck)
(2009-2024, those with three or more top 10 finishes)

1. Hellebuyck - 6 (3, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0)
2. Lundqvist - 6 (1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 1, 1)
3. Quick - 5 (0, 2, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1)
4. Bobrovsky - 5 (0, 1, 0, 2, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1)
5. Bishop - 5 (0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1)
6. Halak - 5 (0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 2, 0, 1, 0, 0)
7. Vasilevskiy - 4 (1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)
8. Holtby - 4 (1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0)
9. Price - 4 (1, 0, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)
10. Ward - 4 (0, 2, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)
11. Luongo - 4 (0, 0, 0, 1, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0)
12. Schneider - 4 (0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0)
13. Crawford - 4 (0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 2)
14. M. Smith - 3 (1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0)
15. Saros - 3 (1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0)
16. Rask - 3 (0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0)
17. Dubnyk - 3 (0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1)
18. Fleury - 3 (0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0)
19. Gibson - 3 (0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0)
20. Hiller - 3 (0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0)
21. Mason - 3 (0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1, 0)
22. Swayman - 3 (0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1)
23. Rinne - 3 (0, 0, 0, 0, 2, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 0)
24. Howard - 3 (0, 0, 0, 0, 0, 1, 0, 0, 1, 0, 1)

Despite Quick not having an impressive GSAA record (just a 3rd and an 8th place) and playing on a defensive LA Kings team, he has a VERY strong GSAx record. Very surprised by this.

Bobrovsky's insane Vezina seasons don't even get first place by this metric, but he still has a great record overall (more or less aligns with his GSAA record). Still doesn't cover his season to season inconsistencies though.

Rask I've mentioned already.

Fleury is about what I'd expect, not too strong. Very rarely a top 10 goalie on any year but a couple quality seasons. Will always wish his prime had more to chew on besides his Stanley Cup count. Very similar to his GSAA record.

Rinne's record looks... really not great. Thought his highs would be higher, he may have had the best D-core of the 2010s in front of him, but I thought his stats would hold even when adjusting for an easier shot quality. His GSAA have him with a 1st and 2nd place finish, with GSAx he gets only two 5ths.

 

[blogofmike]

More joking I see. I don't know why you obsess over the Blues part of his career, when it's less than half of it, but whatever. You don't see how that's 100% a function of being on a bad team as opposed to being on a powerhouse like Moog was for 75% or his career? If your team is Oilers/Bruins, you should make the conference finals and thus automatically lose to a cup finalist. If you're Blues/Whalers, a 1st round loss is expected.

Btw:
1980 Chicago got swept by .688 Buffalo, hardly surprising
1981 Rangers swept by the Isles... LOL
1982 Chicago goes 1-4 vs. Canucks, that's bad
1983 Chicago wins 4-1 vs. Minny... So your 1-20 stat is a lie. Loses later to Oilers, what a shocker.
1984 Minny loses to Oilers... What a surprise again.

My mistake. I counted the wrong series in 1983. So they're 5-17? The point stands.

It's not just that the team loses. It's that Liut is middling against middling teams. Liut didn't play the Islanders or Oilers. Moog did. Liut played middling teams. Moog played the contenders and the Cinderellas.

The 81 Blues were good (.669). Against the 81 Rangers the Blues scored goals decently, (22 GF in 6 games,) but Liut gave up 29 goals. The 81 Isles existed. The Isles beat Moog's Oilers and Steve Baker's Rangers (I think Baker was 1-10 over the rest of his NHL career). But it was 30-win team with a losing record that lit up Liut like a Christmas tree.

Know how Quick (and Joseph, and Lundqvist before,) can get credit for doing well with no goal support? Liut was the opposite of that.



First one was a good setup, but Liut is just leaky for the most part. (See goal #2 at 5:50). Around 14 minutes there's a weak breakaway shot but a juicy rebound. At 24:30 Beck just beats him clean off the faceoff.

After the 4-0 goal, the Blues rally to make it 4-3. And then some guy scores on Liut around 35:45 (and the pop up video says he never scored another goal ever again.) He actually beats Liut twice, the first shot hits the post before sending a second effort into a yawning cage. In the 3rd (43 mins) there's a weird bounce that catches Liut when he's positioned awkwardly himself. Around 56:00, Nilsson claps one past Liut.

And a guy on a team with over a .200-point points percentage lead lets his team down against a losing team, as he saves 13 of 20 in an elimination game. And the Oilers and Islanders have nothing to do with it.

 

[MadArcand]

Is your point that Liut had a bad series as a sophmore? Because that's all this means.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Every Mike Liut playoff game except when they lost in the first round.

1981 Playoffs
Blues beat Penguins 4-2
Shots: Blues 48 Penguins 26
Blues 1 Penguins 0

Youngstown Vindicator · ‎Apr 9, 1981

[Pittsburgh] Coach Eddie Johnston had a plan in mind for Mike Liut. The problem was that the Pittsburgh Penguins were unable to pull it off against the NHL all-star goalie. "Everybody has something he can be beat at," Johnston said Wednesday. "We were getting it a little high on him. We didn't want to get it that high: that's for sure."

Penguins win 6-4
Shots: Blues 23 Penguins 30
Blues 1 Penguins 1

Beaver Country Times · ‎Apr 10, 1981

Pittsburgh Coach Eddie Johnston, a former NHL goalkeeper himself, says he has spotted a flaw in the technique of St. Louis Blues' goalie Mike Liut. "We just happened to see something in the last few weeks," said Johnston. "Something you get into a bad habit and if somebody doesn't tell you about it, you keep doing it."

Blues win 5-4
Shots: Blues 32 Penguins 31
Blues 2 Penguins 1

No relevant comments

Penguins win 6-3
Shots: Blues 24 Penguins 34
Blues 2 Penguins 2

The Pittsburgh Press · ‎Apr 13, 1981

Already [Johnston] rattled St. Louis goalie Mike Liut to such an extent that the usually indominable netminder has allowed 18 goals in the first four playoff games, more than a goal above his season average.

Blues win 4-3 in double OT
Shots: Blues 52 Penguins 51
Blues 3 Penguins 2

The Evening News · ‎Apr 15, 1981

If not for All-Star goaltender Mike Liut, the Blues would be sitting on the sidelines right now.

The Southeast Missourian · ‎Apr 15, 1981

St. Louis has the exhausted netminder in Mike Liut, who was spectacular Tuesday night...

The task will be even tougher if Liut isn't sharp.

Blues beat the Rangers 6-3
Shots: Blues 28 Rangers 31
Blues 1 Rangers 0

No relevant comments

Rangers beat Blues 6-4
Shots: Blues 29 Rangers 30
Blues 1 Rangers 1

No relevant comments

Rangers beat Blues 6-3
Shots: Blues 17 Rangers 31
Blues 1 Rangers 2

The Spokesman-Review · ‎Apr 20, 1981

New York outshot St. Louis 15-5 int he middle period as the Blues' defense staged a disappearing act, leaving All-Star goalie Mike Luit on his own to face the Ragner onslaught.

Beck's slapshot from the left point was stopped by Liut, but Steve Vickers - left alone in front of the Blues' net - poked in the rebound.

Rangers win 4-1
Shots: Blues 34 Rangers 28
Blues 1 Rangers 3

Sarasota Herald-Tribune · ‎Apr 21, 1981

The Blues allowed the Rangers to break free for close-range shots at All-Star goalie Mike Liut. In this game, unlike his performances in the last two contests, Liut was outstanding. But New York goalie Steve Baker was even better.

Blues win 4-3
Shots: Blues 30 Rangers 37
Blues 2 Rangers 3

Record-Journal · ‎Apr 23, 1981

The Rangers, despite outshooting the Blues 17-7, could only come away with a 2-1 first-period lead because of some outstanding saves by St. Louis goalie Mike Liut.

Rangers win 7-4
Shots: Blues 16 Rangers 20
Blues 2 Rangers 4

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette · ‎Apr 25, 1981

Quarter final upset of the Blues. St. Lousi, which finished second overall in the regular-season standings to the Rangers' 13th, had beaten the Rangers all four times the teams met during the season.

But the Rangers controlled most of this series, taking advantage of leaky St. Louis defense and miscues by Liut, an All-Star goalie.

A good, not great run. Bernie Federko is the most praised Blue. The whole psychological warfare angle with Eddie Johnston is weird.

1982 Playoffs
Blues beat Jets 4-3
Shots: Blues 17 Jets 36
Blues 1 Jets 0

The Calgary Herald · ‎Apr 8, 1982

Mike Liut had a big night, stopping 33 shots.

Jets win 5-2
Shots: Blues 35 Jets 33
Blues 1 Jets 1

Record-Journal · ‎Apr 9, 1982

The fast-skating Jets, making full use of the Blues' penalties, then put on a barrage against Mike Liut to score 5 consecutive goals - four on the power plays - and take a 5-1 lead.

Blues win 6-3
Shots: Blues 27 Jets 30
Blues 2 Jets 1

No relevant comments

Blues win 8-2
Shots: Blues 25 Jets 41
Blues 3 Jets 1

The Southeast Missourian · ‎Apr 12, 1982

The young Jets, while bowing out of the best-of-five series, were stalled by Mike Liut, who kicked out 39 Jets shots. "How do you like to lose 8-2 when you get more than 40 shots?"A frustrated Tom Watt asked. "I think Mike Liut deserves to get credit for that. We knew when we started out he might make the difference."

Liut is the second most praised Blue behind Brian Sutter, though it's close. Good series, especially game 4.



Black Hawks beat Blues 5-4
Shots: Blues 40 Black Hawks 28
Blues 0 Black Hawks 1

No relevant comments

Blues win 3-1
Shots: Blues 32 Black Hawks 27
Blues 1 Black Hawks 1

The Evening News · ‎Apr 17, 1982

Mike Liut had a relatively easy night as the Blues' checker kept the Black Hawks off balance. Tom Lysiak scored a powerplay goal on Chicago's first shot of the night, then the Hawks got nothing past Liut.

Black Hawks win 6-5
Shots: Blues 35 Black Hawks 33
Blues 1 Black Hawks 2

Liut pulled after allowing 3 goals on first 3 shots of the game.

Black Hawks win 7-4
Shots: Blues 32 Black Hawks 30
Blues 1 Black Hawks 3

Liut didn't start the game. He was put in with 10 minutes left in the 3rd and allowed 1 goal on 2 shots.

Blues win 3-2 in OT
Shots: Blues 23 Black Hawks 24
Blues 2 Black Hawks 3

No relevant comments

Black Hawks win 2-0
Shots: Blues 23 Black Hawks 24
Blues 2 Black Hawks 6

Record-Journal · ‎Apr 24, 1982

Neither team scored in the first period. Chicago had two power play opportunities but Liut came up with several tough saves to keep Chicago off the score board.

Not a good series. Allowing four goals on 5 shots across two games and losing his starter job. It's just not good. Bernie Federko is again the most praised Blue. Tony Esposito comes in relief for game 6 and pitches a shutout.

Across these two series, Federko, Sutter, and Liut are the most praised Blue. Joe Mullen is up there too.


1984 Playoffs
St Louis beats Detroit 3-2
Shots: Blues 21 Red Wings 26
Blues 1 Red Wings 0

Bulletin Journal · ‎Apr 5, 1984

The opening game of the playoff series... figured to come down to the play of goalies Mike Liut and Greg Stefan - and it did.

Early in the second period, with the Red Wings on a four-on-three power play, trying to break a scoreless tie. Ron Duguay let go with a blast from just inside the blue line, which Liut managed to block. The rebound, however, bounced directly in front of a wide-open St. Louis net, with the Red Wings' Kelly Kisio waiting eagerly to tap it in and give Detroit the first goal. But as Kisio poked at the puck, Liut slid to his left, got his glove in front of the net and caught the shot. The save brought a standing ovation from the crowd and even produced a raised glove of triumph from the usually emotionless Liut.

Detroit Coach Nick Polano thought the save gave both Liut and the Blues a little extra spark.

"Liut played really well and held us down," Greg Stefan said. "We seemed to get things going late, and maybe that momentum will carry over into tonight's game."

Red Wings win 5-3
Shots: Blues 31 Red Wings 28
Blues 1 Red Wings 1

No relevant comments

Blues win 4-3 in double OT
Shots: Blues 39 Red Wings 39
Blues 2 Red Wings 1

Game ran late and game 4 was the next night so all coverage is from the same day.

Blues win 3-2 in OT
Shots: Blues 24 Red Wings 42
Blues 3 Red Wings 1

The Windsor Star · ‎Apr 9, 1984

His name is Mike Liut. The Red Wings shooters know him well. But not well enough. The entire weekend belonged to him. He was spectacular during the almost five full periods of hockey Saturday night. He was even better during three more and a bit Sunday. He was all of that in the other team's building, in front of the other team's screaming, chanting fans, in the pressure games of the playoffs, the games that count.

He played a total of 160 minutes. He faced a total of 81 Detroit shots. He came away with 76 saves, two victories, and alone series to show for it.

There was no question that none of it was easy. Nor any question that the people who call Liut the best goaltender in the NHL are absLiutley correct.

"Unbelievable," said Jacques Demeres, the St. Lous coach. "He was as good, in one game, as any goaltender I've seen in the NHL in the last 10 years."

He stands off-centre towards the shoot," Dave Dryden, Red Wings goalie consultant, said. "He's the only goalie I've ever seen do that."

Immense praise. By far the most praised Blue (Doug Gilmour gets some love too) and by far his most praised series so far.



North Stars win 2-1
Shots: Blues 24 North Stars 41
Blues 0 North Stars 1

The Day · ‎Apr 13, 1984 ·

Minnesota outshot St. Louis 41-24, but could only get two shots past goalie Mike Liut, who was sensational.

Blues win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Blues 36 North Stars 38
Blues 1 North Stars 1

No relevant comments

Blues win 3-1
Shots: Blues 35 North Stars 25
Blues 2 North Stars 1

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 16, 1984

Mike Liut didn't think he did anything special last night, but was the only one among the more than 19,000 people in the Arena who thought that way.

Liut, the St. Louis goaltender, shut out Minnesota for more than 56 minutes...

"I thought we got the offence going in the second half of the game," Minnesota Coach Bill Mahoney said, "but Mike Liut showed why he represents the finest type of goaltending you can get in the playoffs."

North Stars 3-2
Shots: Blues 33 North Stars 26
Blues 2 North Stars 2

Bulletin Journal · ‎Apr 17, 1984 ·

"I was beginning to wonder if I'd ever score, and I can't explain it because I've had good chances, but Liut has been brilliant," Steve Payne said. " He and Beaupre have been the highlights of the series."

North Stars 6-0
Shots: Blues 29 North Stars 24
Blues 2 North Stars 3

Liut pulled after allowing 5 goals on 22 shots.

Blues win 4-0
Shots: Blues 32 North Stars 33
Blues 3 North Stars 3

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 21, 1984

Liut turned back 33 shots, including a handful of great chances for the North Stars in the third period.

North Stars win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Blues 28 North Stars 43
Blues 3 North Stars 4

St. Joseph Gazette · ‎Apr 23, 1984 ·

Gritty play by Blues' goaltender Mike Liut and Minnesota goalie Don Beaupre turned the series into a dog fight.

A good series. Federko is praised less than in years past, so maybe it's a tie for him and Liut as most praised Blue. He shuts the door in game 6 to force a game 7, but has a big stinker in game 5.

Across both series, he is the most praised Blue. Gilmour gets the forward love in series 1, Federko is series 2. But Liut is the king of the team in series 1, and close to Federko is series 2.



1986 Playoffs
Whalers beat Nordiques 3-2 in OT
Shots: Whalers 37 Nordiques 39
Whalers 1 Nordiques 0

The Day · ‎Apr 10, 1986

After a scoreless second period in which Liut stopped everything shot, shoved, or kicked his way (37 savings in all, including 6 on high-scoring Michel Goulet)

Liut.... was probably in his best form of the season in the second period.

Liut, who also kept the Whalers respectable throughout the opening period, withstood the Quebec's initial power-play barrage..... Goulet was robbed by Liut on two others from in close.

Turgeon, in the limelight at the game's end, credit Liut and the Whaler defensive effort in general.

Whalers win 4-1
Shots: Whalers 31 Nordiques 27
Whalers 2 Nordiques 0

Record-Journal · ‎Apr 11, 1986

Mike Liut, who has played spectacularly in the first two games of the series and has received much of the credit.

"Thirty shots against us with Mike Liut in goal, and we have a solid shot to win, "Ray Ferraro said. "Mike had a great game. He's been making all the saves he's had to and some he shouldn't be making."

Whalers win 9-4
Shots: Whalers 35 Nordiques 33
Whalers 3 Nordiques 0

Record-Journal · ‎Apr 13, 1986

Mike Liut and a swarming defence combined to hold Quebec's offense to seven goals in three games. Liut frustrated Quebec time and time again and amassed 95 saves in the first-round series.

Liut is easily the most praised Whaler this series and arguably the most praised he's been in any playoff series I have looked at so far.



Whalers beat Canadiens 4-1
Shots: Whalers 23 Canadiens 27
Whalers 1 Canadiens 0

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 18, 1986

For the fourth time in as many playoff games, Liut was outstanding last night and his alert play in the first period, when the Habs outshot Hartford 14-4, kept his team tied 0-0

Habs win 3-1
Shots: Whalers 25 Canadiens 30
Whalers 1 Canadiens 1

The Day · ‎Apr 20, 1986

Guy Carbonneau scored his first two goals of the NHL playoffs in support of Patrick Roy's steady goaltending.

Mike Liut, who faced 30 shots and who has been the anchor to the Whalers success of late.

Roy provided Montreal with several key stops.

Montreal wins 4-1
Shots: Whalers 21 Canadiens 21
Whalers 1 Canadiens 2

Liut was hurt in warmups. He played the first 10 minutes of the game (1 goal on 6 shots) before being replaced.

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 22, 1986

Liut fanned on the first Canadiens shot on goal, a 65-foot slapshot. The puck trickled between his legs just wide of the net.

Kjell Dahlin beat him high on the glove side with a 35-foot wrist shot. There was no screen. On most nights, Liut would not have let in such a goal.

As much as Liut's injury could prove fatal to Hartford's chances of winning this series, so could the Whalers' seemingly chronic inability to stop Habs centre Guy Carbonneau. Carbonneau has been the best player in this series to date..... [holding Ron Francis to one shot across games 1 and 2].

On several accounts, [Montreal coach] Jean Perron was the first star of the game.

Whalers win 2-1 in OT. Steve Weeks plays as Liut is hurt.
Shots: Whalers 24 Canadiens 19
Whalers 2 Canadiens 2

Habs win 5-3. Steve Weeks plays as Liut is still hurt.
Shots: Whalers 23 Canadiens 30
Whalers 2 Canadiens 3

Whalers win 1-0
Shots: Whalers 17 Canadiens 32
Whalers 3 Canadiens 3

The Phoenix · ‎Apr 28, 1986

Mike Liut [pulled out a magic trick] in which the crippled goaltender returned to shut out the opposition.

Liut proved equal to the task, masking up for several defensive lapses by his teammates and frustrating the Canadiens' offence.

With 10:25 remaining in the game, Liut made probably his biggest saved of the game when he was down but managed to get a leg in front of a point-blank shot by Claude Lemieux.

Habs win 2-1 in OT
Shots: Whalers 25 Canadiens 32
Whalers 3 Canadiens 4

Record-Journal · ‎Apr 30, 1986

Many consoled and praised Liut on his stellar play.

Patrick Roy, Montreal's goaltender who was almost as brilliant as Liut

He's for sure the most praised Whaler in this series and the second most praised player overall after Carboneau.

This is Liut's most praised single playoff run so far and he is the most praised Whaler in both series.


1990 Playoffs
Capitals beat Devils 5-4 in OT
Shots: Capitals 24 Devils 30
Caps 1 Devils 0

No relevant comments


Devils win 6-5
Shots: Capitals 26 Devils 39
Caps 1 Devils 1

Liut was pulled at the end of the first after allowing 3 goals on 10 shots.

Gainesville Sun · ‎Apr 8, 1990

Beaupre, who was spectacular in relief of starter Mike Liut

Devils win 2-1
Shots: Capitals 21 Devils 10
Caps 1 Devils 2

No relevant comments

Capitals win 3-1
Shots: Capitals 33 Devils 24
Caps 2 Devils 2

Beaupre starts over Liut

Capitals win 4-3
Shots: Capitals 24 Devils 20
Caps 3 Devils 2

Beaupre starts over Liut

Capitals win 3-2
Shots: Capitals 32 Devils 34
Caps 4 Devils 2

Beaupre starts over Liut

Nothing good here. Loses his starter job after weak performances.


Rangers beat Caps 7-3
Shots: Capitals 35 Rangers 38
Caps 0 Rangers 1

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette · ‎Apr 20, 1990

Bernie Nicholls defended Murray's choice of Liut as the starting goalie. "He played really well against us at Washington a while back and you can't say the goals were his fault." Still, Beaupre is expected to be in goal for Game 2.

Caps win 6-3
Shots: Capitals 25 Rangers 28
Caps 1 Rangers 1

Beaupre starts over Liut

Caps win 7-1
Shots: Capitals 49 Rangers 19
Caps 2 Rangers 1

Beaupre started the game, but pulled his groin 3:16 into the first.

The Times-News · ‎Apr 24, 1990

Liut, 34, was shelled in the series opener, the Capitals say they don't lose an edge with him in goal. He lead the league in GAA (2.53) during the regular season. "We have all kinds of confidence in Mike Liut," Murray said. "He is a top goaltender in the NHL."

Caps win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Capitals 25 Rangers 33
Caps 3 Rangers 1

No relevant comments. Rod Langway scored his first goal in 90 games (regular season + playoff) in OT to win it.

Caps win 2-1 in OT
Shots: Capitals 34 Rangers 29
Caps 4 Rangers 1

The Evening News · ‎Apr 28, 1990

The game was a goaltending duel between Vanbiesbrouck and Mike Liut. Both were super, with Liut making 29 saves and Vanbiesbrouck making 31.

The Capitals continued to clamp down defensively in the second period, with both goaltenders playing well. Liut stopped two shorthanded breakaways by Paul Broten about three minutes apart. Vanbiesbrouck was equally sharp for the Rangers, making two excellent stops on Mike Ridley from in-close.

Game 7 sounds strong, but not much outside that. He loses his starting job again and only gets it back with an injury.


Boston beats Washington 5-3
Shots: Caps 26 Bruins 35
Caps 0 Bruins 1

Lewiston Morning Tribune · ‎May 4, 1990

Brian Propp was surprised when he got the puck back from Cam Neely, Boston's top goal scorer. So was Washington goalie Mike Liut, who wasn't ready for Propp's game-winning shot. "I thought Neely would shoot for sure. He was in good position." Liut said. "Propp made a good play. He held the puck. He froze me a little."

Bruins win 3-0
Shots: Caps 28 Bruins 30
Caps 0 Bruins 2

Don Beaupre started

Bruins win 4-1
Shots: Caps 26 Bruins 24
Caps 0 Bruins 3

Don Beaupre started

Bruins win 3-2
Shots: Caps 14 Bruins 17
Caps 0 Bruins 4

Sun Journal · ‎May 10, 1990

Rod Langway gave up the puck to Boston's Bobby Carpenter in the Capital's zone. Mike Liut stopped Carpenter's shot, but the rebound bounced off Carter's kneepad and past Liut's glove.

Bad series overall. Loses the starter job three series in a row. When he's put back in for the series-decider, he lets in 3 goals on 17 shots. Cam Neely is by far the most praised player overall, with Andy Moog second, Ray Bourque third. Hard to pull anything positive from 1990, despite going to the Conference Finals.



I think Liut was at his best in the playoffs in Hartford. He's young and raw on St. Louis. Despite the accolades in 1981, he struggles in the playoffs. He does well against the Jets in 1982, but not the Hawks. His 1984 run is very strong though. I really like his 1986 run, where he is the most praised Whaler by quite a bit and runs into a very deep Canadiens team. 1990 is just a plain bad run.

Overall, I guess this is the kind of resume we have to expect at this stage of the project. Outside of 1984 and 1986, not much positive to pull. Those are two very strong runs, but I'm also cognisant that the two teams he gets the best praise against (1982 Jets and 1984 Red Wings) were weak (0.500 Point % and 0.431 Point%). The 1986 Nordiques were good and obviously the 1986 Habs were great.

How much do we weigh a playoff resume that is held up on two round-two losses (1984 and 1986)? There's a weak 1981, good 1982, a playoff collapse in 1987, and a straight up bad 1990.

 

[Professor What]

Can someone explain to me the rationale behind looking at playoff opponents' regular season win percentage for goalies?

Yeah, I get the idea of identifying tougher opponents and giving credit for performance against stronger opponents, but I'm not sure that looking at the win percentages really tells anything of the sort. Sure, we can get that a goalie gets better results against stronger or weaker teams, but that's like giving a goalie credit for wins to start with. It's a whole team performance. I can see how something like @jigglysquishy's playoff analysis posts could be used to do something like that and seeing how the goalie is praised (or not) against stronger and weaker opponents, but just looking at the stats without context is a team thing.

I was watching something about some college football on YouTube earlier. Josh Pate said that for his taste, Clemson had played really well against poor competition and poorly against good competition. That got me thinking about how I feel my team, Alabama, has played better against tough competition than they have weaker opponents. But it's all a team thing. Yes, certain players have a bigger or smaller effect on the outcome. Yes, a more talented player that gets more minutes is going to have more impact than a guy that just makes the roster. Yes, the goalie is out there for more or less the whole game, and is a key player when the puck is in the defensive zone. But when we look at the winning percentages without the added context, what are we learning about the goalies? We're learning about how certain teams did in those situations, but the goalie could have been better or worse than the team as a whole, and there's no way to know which one it is without the extra information..

Also, @Michael Farkas, are you still doing video mashups of the goalies? If you are and you have time, I'd be interested to see some video on Liut. I'm getting a real feeling that the optics and the results might not be equal when talking about him, and I'd like to have something to judge by. If not, have a great day anyway. Lol

 

[Michael Farkas]

Also, @Michael Farkas, are you still doing video mashups of the goalies? If you are and you have time, I'd be interested to see some video on Liut. I'm getting a real feeling that the optics and the results might not be equal when talking about him, and I'd like to have something to judge by. If not, have a great day anyway. Lol

I will have a great day, thanks prof. Haha

Will I be able to get to a full game of all shot attempts this week? I doubt it. But I could do some mini-breakdowns in all likelihood. I have some of his tendencies already down because in my preliminary research I thought he was going to be a stand out relative to expectations and general feel. He was not..for my tastes anyhow.

 

[jigglysquishy]

I've done some Worsley playoff games so I'm adding the rest and collecting the ones I've already done.

Every Gump Worsley playoff game

1956 Playoffs
Montreal defeats New York 7-1
Shots: Rangers 22 Habs 44
Rangers 0 Habs 1

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Mar 21, 1956

Gump Worsley was a very busy little man, being called upon to face a barrage of 44 shots. He has played better games than his one, but he was handicapped by an injured knee which hampered his movements.

The Rangers planned to play a defensive game. They went into a shell right from the opening faceoff, packing their own blue line and not making much of an effort to carry to puck in over the Canadiens' blue line. They were going to lie back and wait for their breaks.

Rangers win 4-2. Gordie Bell plays in replacement of the injured Worsley
Shots: Rangers 27 Habs 34
Rangers 1 Habs 1


Habs win 3-1
Shots: Rangers 10 Habs 23
Rangers 1 Habs 2

The Rangers only managed 10 shots all game and nothing positive is said of the team. Beliveau, though pointless, is called the outstanding player.


Habs win 5-3
Shots: Rangers 21 Habs 33
Rangers 1 Habs 3

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Mar 26, 1956

As usual, Gump Worsley was busier than Jacques Plante. Jacques came up with one of his better games, making a number of big saves.

The Boomer fed the Rocket and little Gump Worsley came up with a big save, but Jean Beliveau was there to snap in the rebound.

Habs win 7-0. Gordie Bell plays in replacement of Worsley (no word on injury).
Shots: Rangers 29 Habs 36
Rangers 1 Habs 4


Man, the Rangers just got worked this series top to bottom, but Worsley doesn't look good. I can't find anything about him being injured in game 5 either.


1957 Playoffs
Habs win 4-1
Shots: Rangers 26 Habs 27
Rangers 0 Habs 1

No relevant comments


Rangers win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Rangers 38 Habs 47
Rangers 1 Habs 1

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Mar 29, 195

Worsley and Plante, both under considerable pressure in the overtime had put on brilliant exhibitions, time and time again staving off threats.

Habs win 8-3
Shots: Rangers 22 Habs 46
Rangers 1 Habs 2

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 1, 1957

The Canadiens were allowed to pour a fusillade of 46 shots at Gump Worsley. The little guy was a sitting duck all night.

Habs win 3-1
Shots: Rangers 31 Habs 40
Rangers 1 Habs 3

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎Apr 3, 1957

The Rangers played a clever checking game, blocking nicely within their own area and getting great support from goalie Lorne Worsley

Habs win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Rangers 21 Habs 36
Rangers 1 Habs 4

The Calgary Herald · ‎Apr 5, 1957

The puck streaked past Gump Worsley, the game little New York goalie who time and again had come to the rescue of his mates.

A better series than 1956, but again the Rangers are just completely outmatched. Worsley gets more praise than in 1956, but in an era where they play nice to goalies getting worked, they don't play nice to Worsley.


1958 Playoffs
Rangers win 5-3
Shots: Rangers 30 Bruins 29
Rangers 1 Bruins 0

No relevant comments

Bruins win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Rangers 30 Bruins 25
Rangers 1 Bruins 1

The Calgary Herald · ‎Mar 28, 1958

Don Simmons, a replacement for Harry Lumley, ... made an excellent showing. He stopped 27 shots. Worsley saved 21.

Bruins win 5-0
Shots: Rangers 28 Bruins 36
Rangers 1 Bruins 2

No relevant comments


Rangers win 5-2
Shots: Rangers 35 Bruins 41
Rangers 2 Bruins 2

Ottawa Citizen · ‎Apr 2, 1958

The Bruins had a wide advantage in territorial play in the final 20 minutes, but were stopped time and time again by Worsley's sparkling net-minding.

Bruins win 6-1
Shots: Rangers 27 Bruins 42
Rangers 2 Bruins 3

No relevant comments

Bruins win 8-2
Shots: Rangers 44 Bruins 28
Rangers 2 Bruins 4

No relevant comments

Again, the Rangers get worked. It's not like 1958 Bruins are a great team, but they completely collapse.


1962 Playoffs
Leafs beat Rangers 4-2
Shots: Rangers 28 Leafs 31
Rangers 0 Leafs 1

No relevant comments. Play on both sides is criticized as sloppy.


Leafs win 2-1
Shots: Rangers 28 Leafs 39
Rangers 0 Leafs 2

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎Mar 30, 1962

It was a heartbreaker for Worsley, who stood out in the wide-open game, making 37 saves, many of them on the sensational side.

Ranger GM Muzz Patrick had mildly roasted Worsley for his performance in the first game of the series, but there was nothing wrong with his netminding Thursday night....there were times when Leaf snipers figured he must have been operating by radar.

Worsley performed all sorts of acrobatics to keep out the hard-driving Leafs and was particularly brilliant in the final minutes of the game when Leaf center Dave Keon stole the puck from Henry and tried to lure the New York goalie out of his net. Worsley didn't fall for it and steered the Leaf player to the side of the cage.

Rangers win 5-4
Shots: Rangers 31 Leafs 40
Rangers 1 Leafs 2

The Windsor Star · ‎Apr 2, 1962

Worsley Dazzles

[Pulford] was stymied by Goalie Lorne Worsley all night, along with several other Leafs who often outskated the defenders only to be beaten by Worsley.

"Worsley played pretty well," Punch Imlach said, understating the fact. Worsley turned in a performance that kept the sellout crowd cheering all night.

"Gump was great," Doug Harvery concurred.

Rangers win 4-2
Shots: Rangers 40 Leafs 42
Rangers 2 Leafs 2

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎Apr 4, 1962

The Leafs, plagued by mistakes and penalties, came to life in the third period and put on a feverish rush, peppering Ranger goalie Gump Worsley with 21 shots.

Leafs win 3-2 in double OT
Shots: Rangers 41 Leafs 59
Rangers 2 Leafs 3

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎Apr 6, 1962

Worsley Centre of All Praise

"Worsley played a fantastic game," Punch Imlach said "I've seen a lot of good goaltending before, but nothing like this."

Leafs win 7-1
Shots: Rangers 33 Leafs 40
Rangers 2 Leafs 4

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎Apr 9, 1962

New York Ranger goalie Gump Worsley got some solace Sunday night from the 7-1 pasting he took from Toronto. Worsley was voted by the New York Hockey Writers Association as the most valuable Ranger during the series.

This was by far his best series so far and he is by far the most praised player on either team. The Leafs have some good performances all around, but no one besides Worsley gets noteworthy praise on the Rangers.


1965 Playoffs
Habs beat Leafs 3-2
Shots: Habs 38 Leafs 26
Habs 1 Leafs 0

Charlie Hodge plays

Habs beat Leafs 3-1
Shots: Habs 39 Leafs 32
Habs 2 Leafs 0

Charlie Hodge plays

Leafs beat Habs 3-2 in OT
Shots: Habs 28 Leafs 33
Habs 2 Leafs 1

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎Apr 7, 1965

Spectacular performance by stand-in [Hodge was hurt] Montreal goaltender Gump Worsley

Worsley also had to be sharp on several close-in tries - particularly by Mahovlich, rookie Ron Ellis, captain George Armstrong, and Keon.

Leafs win 4-2
Shots: Habs 26 Leafs 33
Habs 2 Leafs 2

No relevant comments


Habs win 3-1
Shots: Habs 23 Leafs 28
Habs 3 Leafs 2

The Leader-Post · ‎Apr 12, 1965

Worsley, playing his third-game since co-goalie Charlie Hodge suffered a groin injury, scored his first victory with his best effort to date. He handled 27 shots and, while few of them were really difficult, he was a steady performer throughout.

Habs win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Habs 35 Leafs 37
Habs 4 Leafs 2

The Windsor Star · ‎Apr 14, 1965

Worsley Habs' Forgotten Hero

Worsley didn't receive his full share of adulation when Les Canadiens eliminated the Toronto Maple Leafs on Tuesday night.

The cold statistics reveal that the Maple Leafs scored three goals on Worsley in the first three minutes and 49 seconds of Tuesday's game. Ah-but did you notice what Worsley was doing in the remaining 72 minutes and 44 seconds of Tuesday's game? Worsley, wearing his familiar expression of sad and slightly-puzzled resolution, merely blanked the Maple Leafs - the frustrated Torontonians couldn't have squeezed an aspirin tablet past him, after his recovered from that early explosion.

Image - Gump Worsley playing in the Stanley Cup final! Buster Keaton finally gets his chance to play Hamlet!

Pretty good series coming in relief. The Buster Keaton line at the end is brilliant. The Habs are a great team, but I do think the Leafs were a harder challenge than the Hawks in the next round.


1965 Finals
Habs win 3-2
Shots: Habs 31 Hawks 24
Habs 1 Hawks 0

The Spokesman-Review · ‎Apr 18, 1965

Worsley was a surprise starter since Montreal Coach Toe Blake had announced he would use Charlie Hodge. Worsley was weakened by a flu attack.

Montreal wins 2-0
Shots: Habs 31 Hawks 18
Habs 2 Hawks 0

The Windsor Star · ‎Apr 21, 1965

Nothing was more remarkable than the spectacle of the much-vulcanized Worsley facing only 18 shots, almost ever one of which was routine. The Montreal defence and backchecking was that good.

Brewer gave the third star to Worsley which was the decent thing even if Gump never had it so soft.

Chicago wins 3-1
Shots: Habs 23 Hawks 27
Habs 2 Hawks 1

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎Apr 23, 1965

The score might have been higher for both sides but for the spectacular netminding by Chicago's Glenn Hall and Montreal's Worsley.

"We had a good effort so did Montreal." Chicago Coach Billy Reay said. "I thought Wrosley did a fine job in their nets and he stopped several good shots by Bobby Hull."

Chicago wins 5-1
Shots: Habs 26 Hawks 28
Habs 2 Hawks 2

Hodge played over Worsley after Worsley got injured in pre-game warmups.


Montreal wins 6-0
Shots: Habs 37 Hawks 23
Habs 3 Hawks 2

Hodge played


Chicago wins 2-1
Shots: Habs 22 Hawks 24
Habs 3 Hawks 3

Hodge played


Montreal wins 4-0
Shots: Habs 35 Hawks 20
Habs 4 Hawks 3


The Montreal Gazette · ‎May 3, 1965

Gump was a surprise starter in place of Charlie Hodge who had played well in the previous three games.

Worsley, counted on by Blake because "he might not be as nervous as Charlie", chalked up his second shutout of the series with 20 saves, but mainly on the strength of five great stops in the first period.

Overall, an okay series, but he only played 4 of 7 games. Hodge gets praise when he's in too. Montreal as a team gets lots of praise, particularly Beliveau and Toe Blake. Very strong defensively, as they keep shots under 25 in 5 of 7 and produce 3 shutouts. Richard, Rousseau, Tremblay, Duff, and Provost all get high praise.


1966 Playoffs
Habs beat Leafs 4-3
Shots: Habs 32 Leafs 28
Habs 1 Leafs 0

No relevant comments

Habs win 2-0
Shots: Habs 40 Leafs 25
Habs 2 Leafs 0

The Leader-Post · ‎Apr 11, 1966

Leafs neglected to fire on Worsley when they got the puck. They outshot Montreal 15-14 in the second period, but Sawchuk had 16 pucks reach his crease in the final period while Worsley had only seven fired at him.

Habs win 5-2
Shots: Habs 37 Leafs 30
Habs 3 Leafs 0

The Leader-Post · ‎Apr 13, 1966

Worsley came on strong after a spotty start. He was fooled completely on Shack's opening goal, was screened and out of the play on Horton's counter and was lucky when another screen drive by defenceman Bobby Baun bounced off the crossbar......Worsley recovered from a shaky start and finally closed the door.

Habs win 4-1
Shots: Habs 37 Leafs 30
Habs 4 Leafs 0

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎Apr 15, 1966

Worsley played a strong game and made a key stop on Bob Pulford just before Gilles Tremblay got his second goal.

Not much in the way of praise. The Habs dominate all four games.


1966 Finals
Detroit wins 3-2
Shots: Habs 38 Red Wings 31
Habs 0 Red Wings 1

No relevant comments


Detroit wins 5-2
Shots: Habs 25 Red Wings 34
Habs 0 Red Wings 2

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎Apr 27, 1966

Gilles Tremblay, Montreal's speedy left winger, said Canadiens made "mental errors" which cost them the game as Wings poured four goals past Montreal netminder Lorne Worsley in the third period to clinch the victory.

Montreal wins 4-2
Shots: Habs 31 Red Wings 31
Habs 1 Red Wings 2

The Windsor Star · ‎Apr 29, 1966

[Toe Blake[ pointed to the improved play of his centres and defencemen and the sensational goaltending of Lorne Worsley as the total ingredients of the triumph.
"Beliveau and the other two centres (Ralph Backstrom and Henri Richard) made the difference.

Montreal wins 2-1
Shots: Habs 33 Red Wings 23
Habs 2 Red Wings 2

The Windsor Star · ‎May 2, 1966

In the end the Wingers were scuttled by their own shortcomings around the Canadiens' net, compounded by the acrobatics of goalie Gump Worsley and probably the best two-way checking display by Canadiens in the series. Worsley wasn't really tested until the second period when he made big stops on Bruce MacGregor and Leo Boivin.

Montreal wins 5-1
Shots: Habs 33 Red Wings 21
Habs 3 Red Wings 2

No relevant comments


Montreal wins 3-2 in OT
Shots: Habs 22 Red Wings 30
Habs 4 Red Wings 2

No relevant comments

Overall, not much here. He has a good first two games, and then the Habs are in the driver's seat. Crozier, Ullman, and Howe get lots of love. Tremblay and Beliveau get biggest Habs praise.


1967 Finals
Vachon plays over Worsley in the first four games

Toronto wins 4-1
Shots: Habs 38 Leafs 29
Leafs 3 Habs 2

Worsley plays the last period, stopping 10 of 10 shots

Leafs win 3-1
Shots: Habs 41 Leafs 35
Leafs 4 Habs 2

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎May 3, 1967

The Canadiens, who received strong goaltending from Lorne Worsley.

Overall, it's four periods of play. Sawchuk is given the highest praise.


1968 Playoffs

Montreal wins 2-1. No relevant Worsley comments except his penalties
Shots: Habs 35 Bruins 22
Habs 1 Bruins 0

The Calgary Herald · ‎Apr 5, 1968

Les Canadiens outskated the Bruins most of the way, and Boston goalie Gerry Cheevers was the most outstanding man on the ice.

For my money, the best two men on the ice (with the exception of Cheevers) were Jean Beliveau and John McKenzie.

Montreal wins 5-3
Shots: Habs 41 Bruins 20
Habs 2 Bruins 0

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 8, 1968

The defence stood up well - especially Jacques Laperrier who has never played better - while Gump Worsley made the key saves required.

Only several big saves by Cheevers kept Boston close.

Montreal wins 5-2
Shots: Habs 33 Bruins 27
Habs 3 Bruins 0

The Bryan Times · ‎Apr 10, 1968

Goalie Worsley Overpowers Bruins

Gump Worsley, who just won't act his age, is teaching the young, ambitious Boston Bruins a thing or two about hockey. Worsley, who'll be 39 on May 14, turned in an excellent game in the nets Tuesday night.

Montreal wins 3-2
Shots: Habs 34 Bruins 37
Habs 4 Bruins 0

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 12, 1968

Worsley, the victim of a crazy rumour that he had suffered a heart attack here Wednesday, almost didn't finish the contest after getting hit flush on the elbow by a shot by Ron Murphy.

"If one guy beat us more than the rest, it was Worsley," said Boston center Phil Esposito.

Worsley might be the most praised Hab this series. Lots of praise goes around - Beliveau, Henri Richard, Lemaire, Duff, Laperrier, Backstrom, Provost. I'm surprised how little Orr is mentioned. Cheevers is the most praised Bruin, followed by Esposito.


1968 Semi-Finals
Habs beat Hawks 9-2
Shots: Habs 33 Hawks 34
Habs 1 Hawks 0

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 19, 1968

Gump Worsley was the only angry athlete in the Canadiens room. He stormed into the changing quarters and tossed his stick on the floor. "I blew that first Chicago goal," he said. "They'd never have put it in if I'd caught the first shot."

Worsley conceded this was his easiest playoff game.

Habs win 4-1
Shots: Habs 39 Hawks 24
Habs 2 Hawks 0

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 22, 1968

Worsley, who discarded taping his bruised right hand "because I couldn't hold my stick," came up with two tremendous saves in the second period. He thwarted Pit Martin on a breakaway, Mikit and Bobby Hull on a shot and rebound, before the tide turned.

Bobby Hull was the Chicago standout again and never stopped working despite the strong checking of Provost and the harassment of defenceman Terry Harper.

Habs win 4-2
Shots: Habs 41 Hawks 33
Habs 3 Hawks 0

The Leader-Post · ‎Apr 24, 1968

Worsley, who played brilliantly as the Montrealers eliminated Boston Bruins in straight games int he quarter-final, has been equally effective against the Hawks allowing only five goals in three games. His teammates have put 17 behind Chicago's Dennis DeJordy.

Worsley had a decade of lean years while performing for New York Rangers when the team was a picture of ineptness and the defence had a habit of leaving the goalie on his own.

Hawks win 2-1
Shots: Habs 29 Hawks 34
Habs 3 Hawks 2

Worsley is taken off the ice on a stretcher after being tackled by Bobby Hull. Vachon finishes the game.

Habs win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Habs 44 Hawks 27
Habs 4 Hawks 1

Vachon plays


1968 Finals
Montreal wins 3-2 in OT
Shots: Habs 38 Blues 36
Habs 1 Blues 0

The Montreal Gazette · ‎May 6, 1968

Gump Worsley appeared shaky through the first 30 minutes of play, but settled down and came up with several fine saves.

Montreal wins 1-0
Shots: Habs 36 Blues 19
Habs 2 Blues 0

The Phoenix · ‎May 8, 1968

Gump Worsley, veteran Montreal netminder, came up with big saves to preserve shutout victory.

They were so successful that goalie Lorne Worsley was called on to make only three stops in the final 20 minutes.

Montreal wins 4-3 in OT
Shots: Habs 46 Blues 15
Habs 3 Blues 0

No relevant comments, but I'll point out that saving only 12 of 15 is not a good game


Montreal wins 3-2
Shots: Habs 31 Blues 21
Habs 4 Blues 0

No relevant comments.

Overall, the Blues were never really in the series. The newspapers treat it as a foregone conclusion, and Montreal outshoots St. Louis 151 to 91 in only four games. Nobody on Montreal stands out and all the attention is on Toe Blake's retirement.


1969 Playoffs
Habs beat Rangers 3-1
Shots: Habs 26 Rangers 27
Habs 1 Rangers 0

The Calgary Herald · ‎Apr 3, 1969

Rangers GM Emile Francis said. "But penalties hurt us, and I have to give credit to Gump Worsley for the big saves he made to keep Canadiens in there."

Habs win 5-2
Shots: Habs 24 Rangers 28
Habs 2 Rangers 0

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 5, 1969

"Worsley has played two good games." said Claude Ruel.

Habs win 4-1
Shots: Habs 18 Rangers 32
Habs 3 Rangers 0

No relevant comments, but there was a double goalie fight. A bench clearing brawl resulted in Worsley/Giacomin fighting and Vachon/Simmons fighting.


Habs win 4-3
Shots: Habs 34 Rangers 27
Habs 4 Rangers 0

Worsley left the game early in the first with a knee injury.


1969 Semi-Final
Habs beat Bruins 3-2 in OT
Shots: Habs 35 Bruins 23
Habs 1 Bruins 0

No relevant comments.

Habs win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Habs 34 Bruins 30
Habs 2 Bruins 0

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 14, 1969

The Canadiens were all over them in the overtime after Worsley made a brilliant stop of Fred Stanifeld's big chance from 30 feet.

Bruins win 5-0
Shots: Habs 34 Bruins 31
Habs 2 Bruins 1

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 18, 1969

Gump Worsley, suffering his first loss in 18 playoff games going back to last season, was hot in the first two periods before he joined the whole team in a third period letdown.

Vachon plays the rest of the playoffs.


1970 Playoffs
Blues beat North Stars 6-2
Shots: North Stars 21 Blues 46
North Stars 0 Blues 1

The Windsor Star · ‎Apr 9, 1970

Plante said, "Worsley drops to his knees for every shot. I lost ten pounds and only had to stop 21 shots. Gump had a tougher night."

Blues win 2-1
Shots: North Stars 18 Blues 40
North Stars 0 Blues 2

Cesare Maniago plays

North Stars win 4-2
Shots: North Stars 31 Blues 34
North Stars 1 Blues 2

The Spokesman-Review · ‎Apr 12, 1970

Gump Worsley played brilliantly in goal for Minnesota.

North Stars win 4-0
Shots: North Stars 34 Blues 35
North Stars 2 Blues 2

Cesare Maniago plays

Blues win 6-3
Shots: North Stars 21 Blues 37
North Stars 2 Blues 3

No relevant comments.

Blues win 4-2
Shots: North Stars 27 Blues 34
North Stars 2 Blues 4

Cesare Maniago plays

Not much to pull from here. He splits starts with Maniago. He's old and the North Stars are terrible.


1971 Playoffs
Stars beat Blues 3-2
Shots: North Stars 22 Blues 44
North Stars 1 Blues 0

Cesare Maniago plays.

Blues win 4-2
Shots: North Stars 28 Blues 29
North Stars 1 Blues 1

Cesare Maniago plays

Blues win 3-0
Shots: North Stars 27 Blues 29
North Stars 1 Blues 2

Cesare Maniago plays

Stars win 2-1
Shots: North Stars 22 Blues 26
North Stars 2 Blues 2

The Windsor Star · ‎Apr 12, 1971

Minnesota Coach Jack Gordon credited goalie Gump Worsley who "played particularly well tonight."

Stars win 4-3
Shots: North Stars 22 Blues 36
North Stars 3 Blues 2

No relevant comments

Stars win 5-2
Shots: North Stars 30 Blues 21
North Stars 4 Blues 2

No relevant comments


1971 SemiFinals
Habs beat North Stars 7-2
Shots: North Stars 28 Habs 33
North Stars 0 Habs 1

Edmonton Journal · ‎Apr 21, 1971

Coach Jackie Gordon said that Cesare Maniago will be in the nets for the Stars Thursday, but made it clear he was not knocking Gump Worsley

Stars win 6-3
Shots: North Stars 34 Habs 35
North Stars 1 Habs 1

Cesare Maniago plays. Media is all over this as it's the first playoff loss an O6 team had to an expansion team.

Habs win 6-3
Shots: North Stars 33 Habs 31
North Stars 1 Habs 2

Cesare Maniago plays.

Stars win 5-2
Shots: North Stars 42 Habs 37
North Stars 2 Habs 2

Cesare Maniago plays.

Habs win 6-1
Shots: North Stars 27 Habs 30
North Stars 2 Habs 3

Cesare Maniago plays.

Habs win 3-2
Shots: North Stars 32 Habs 37
North Stars 2 Habs 4

Cesare Maniago plays.


1972 Playoffs
Stars beat Blues 3-0
Shots: North Stars 44 Blues 27
North Stars 1 Blues 0

Times-Union · ‎Apr 6, 1972

42-year-old Worsley turned in a shutout.

Stars win 6-5 in OT
Shots: North Stars 29 Blues 38
North Stars 2 Blues 0

Cesare Maniago plays

Blues win 2-1
Shots: North Stars 30 Blues 35
North Stars 2 Blues 1

No relevant comments

Blues win 3-2
Shots: North Stars 30 Blues 38
North Stars 2 Blues 2

Cesare Maniago plays

Stars win 4-3
Shots: North Stars 27 Blues 33
North Stars 3 Blues 2

No relevant comments

Blues win 4-2
Shots: North Stars 30 Blues 38
North Stars 3 Blues 3

Gump Worsley gets knocked out in the first period after Bob Plager crashed into him on the rebound.

Blues win 2-1 in OT
Shots: North Stars 29 Blues 27
North Stars 3 Blues 4

Cesare Maniago plays


Nothing much to pull from the North Stars years. He's very old (39-42) and the team is just bad. Media coverage is poor too.


Going over everything, I've warmed up a bit on Worsley. He has some good series here and there, but it's unfortunate that when he's at his best (~1956-1962) the Rangers are awful. He is a cog in the 60s Habs dynasty, but does come in with good play overall.

 

[DN28]

I wanted to take a deeper look at Connell’s time. Here’s a summary of top goalies during Alec Connell’s NHL career season-by-season according to various official and unofficial all-star selections, Hart votings and also retroactive Conn Smythe trophies determined by Society for International Hockey Research in 2001 along with a few of media top-X lists.

Official Hart & All-Star Votings are listed here.
All-Star Teams selected by NHL coaches are listed here.

1925
Connell plays his 1st pro season in Ottawa. Senators finishes 4th and missed the playoffs.

NHL all-star:
- no official AST

- Calgary Daily Herald on Jan 12, 1925 posted the NHL all-star teams according to Hamilton Spectator:
1. Georges Vezina
2. Jake Forbes

- goalies according to Hart voting:
1. Clint Benedict (3rd in Hart)
2. Jake Forbes (9th in Hart)

WCHL all-star:
1. Hap Holmes

1926
Senators wins the regular season. Lost the playoff series with the Maroons.

- no official AST

- Brooklyn Daily Eagle on April 4, 1926 published its NHL all-star teams:
1. Alec Connell
2. Clint Benedict
3. Roy Worters

- according to Hart voting:
1. Roy Worters (4th in Hart)
2. Charles Stewart (9th in Hart)

WHL all-star:
1. George Hainsworth

1927
Senators wins the regular season and more importantly the Stanley Cup. Connell had a great playoffs, great enough that SIHR gave him a „retro Conn Smythe“.

- unofficial NHL coaches‘ all-star:
1. George Hainsworth
2. John Ross Roach
3. Roy Worters
4. Clint Benedict & Lorne Chabot (as honorable mentions)

- New Castle News on February 19, 1927 published the goalie ranking according to "three qualified experts from New York, Boston and Montreal":
1. Alec Connell
2. Jake Forbes
3. Clint Benedict
4. John Ross Roach
5. Hugh Lehman
6. Roy Worters

- New York Times on April 4, 1927 published its all-stars:
1. Alec Connell („…is first, second and third for the season“)
2. George Hainsworth, Lorne Chabot, Clint Benedict & John Ross Roach („…are all good men at the nets“)

- according to Hart voting:
1. Roy Worters (11th in Hart)

1928
Senators advanced to playoffs. Lost the quarterfinals series with the Maroons.

- unofficial NHL coaches‘ all-star:
1. Roy Worters
2. George Hainsworth
3. Alec Connell
4. John Ross Roach

- New York Evening Post on March 24, 1928 published own all-stars as a sort of their response to the coaches all-star selection:
1. Roy Worters
2. Alec Connell

- Ottawa Citizen on Nov 2, 1928. Writer quotes an unnamed NHL referee’s take on goalies and then adds his own opinion:

„According to Dick Gibson, Windsor scribe, one N.H.L. referee rates John Ross Roach the second best goalkeeper in hockey, Roy Worters, Pittsburgh hold-out, getting the call. The name of the referee was not divulged but there is no good reason why it should not have been as he is entitled to his opinion, which, after all, is only that of one person. It appears to be generally accepted around the circuit that Worters is the best goalkeeper in the N.H.L., although local hockey fans, and this writer is one of them, are not of the opinion that the little Pirate is superior to Alex Connell of the Senators, and few local fans, who, by the way, know their hockey at least as well as those of any other city, believe that Johnny Roach is the equal of Connell.“

- according to Hart voting:
1. Roy Worters (2nd in Hart)

1929
Senators didn’t qualify to playoffs.

- unofficial NHL coaches‘ all-star:
1. Roy Worters
2. George Hainsworth
3. Tiny Thompson

- The Morning Leader on Jan 26, 1929 selects all-stars for the first half of 1929 season:
1. Roy Worters
2. Charlie Gardiner

- according to Hart voting:
1. Roy Worters (1st in Hart)

- Bruins win the Cup and Tiny Thompson got a retro Conn Smythe by SIHR.

1930
Senators advanced to playoffs. Lost the quarterfinals series with the Rangers.

- unofficial NHL coaches‘ all-star:
1. Tiny Thompson
2. Roy Worters

- according to Hart voting:
1. Charlie Gardiner (7th in Hart)

- Canadiens win the Cup and George Hainsworth got a retro Conn Smythe by SIHR.

1931
Senators didn’t qualify to playoffs.

- official NHL all-stars:
1. Charlie Gardiner
2. Tiny Thompson
3. Roy Worters
4. George Hainsworth
5. John Ross Roach
6. Lorne Chabot

- no goalie featured in Hart voting

1932
Connell moved to Detroit Falcons which advanced to playoffs. Lost the quarterfinals series with the Maroons.

- official NHL all-stars:
1. Charlie Gardiner
2. Roy Worters
3. Tiny Thompson
4. George Hainsworth
5. John Ross Roach
6. Lorne Chabot
7. Alec Connell

- no goalie featured in Hart voting

1933
Connell played merely 15 games for the Senators. The Ottawa team, with most starts given to Bill Beveridge, failed to qualify to playoffs.

- official NHL all-stars:
1. John Ross Roach
2. Charlie Gardiner
3. Roy Worters
4. Tiny Thompson
5. Lorne Chabot
6. Dave Kerr

- unofficial NHL coaches‘ all-stars:
1. Charlie Gardiner
2. Roy Worters

- this season’s Hart voting data is very limited. But according to one source:
1. John Ross Roach (3rd in Hart)

1934
Connell was injured for most of the season. Played one single reg. season game for the Amerks.

- official NHL all-stars:
1. Charlie Gardiner
2. Roy Worters
3. Tiny Thompson
4. Wilf Cude
5. George Hainsworth
6. Andy Aitkenhead
7. Dave Kerr
8. Lorne Chabot & Bill Beveridge

- unofficial NHL coaches‘ all-stars:
1. Charlie Gardiner
2. Roy Worters
3. Tiny Thompson & Wilf Cude
5. George Hainsworth

- according to Hart voting:
1. Roy Worters (5th in Hart)

1935
Connell back into full-time starter mode. Maroons advanced to playoffs and win the Stanley Cup. And although SIHR didn't give him a retro Smythe here, there is no doubt Connell had a "Conn Smythe worthy" run. Tommy Gorman called his play the "greatest goalkeeping performance in the history of hockey."

- official NHL all-stars:
1. Lorne Chabot
2. Tiny Thompson
3. Roy Worters
4. Alec Connell
5. George Hainsworth
6. Dave Kerr
7. Wilf Cude

- unofficial NHL coaches‘ all-stars:
1. Tiny Thompson
2. Roy Worters
3. Lorne Chabot, Wilf Cude & Alec Connell all mentioned with an undisclosed number of votes

- St. Louis Post-Dispatch (Jan 11, 1935) wrote mid-season:

„Thompson a Marvel. It was a great exhibition that Thompson gave. He is regarded as the best goalie in the business now that Chuck Gardiner, formerly of the Chicago Black Hawks, is dead, and there are few among the St. Louis fans who saw his marvelous performance last night who would dispute his claim to the place of the No. 1 goal tender.“

- no goalie featured in Hart voting

1936
Connell doesn’t play.

- official NHL all-stars:
1. Tiny Thompson
2. Wilf Cude
3. Mike Karakas
4. George Hainsworth
5. Roy Worters
6. Normie Smith

- unofficial NHL coaches‘ all-stars:
1. Tiny Thompson
2. Wilf Cude
3. Mike Karakas & George Hainsworth being mentioned

- no goalie featured in Hart voting

- Red Wings win the Cup and Normie Smith got a retro Conn Smythe by SIHR.

1937
Connell plays 27 reg. season games for the Maroons. Retires in January. Maroons advanced to playoffs with Bill Beveridge re-taking the starting role.

- official NHL all-stars:
1. Normie Smith
2. Wilf Cude
3. Tiny Thompson
4. Dave Kerr
5. Mike Karakas
6. Bill Beveridge

- unofficial NHL coaches‘ all-stars:
1. Wilf Cude
2. Normie Smith
3. Tiny Thompson, Mike Karakas & Dave Kerr being mentioned

- according to Hart voting:
1. Tiny Thompson (4th in Hart)

 

[DN28]

So looking at it, Connell peaked in 1926-1928. He was in the conversation for the best goalie for 3 seasons.

Later, Connell had a surprisingly great 1935 season.

He has 4 relevant seasons as a great goalie; at least the way I see it now.

 

[overpass]

I'm not sure if it's been mentioned, but Connell's retirements weren't hockey-related. He worked for the Ottawa Fire Department all through his hockey career. Early in his career he was secretary for the department, and later he was an executive. In the 1930s, he stopped playing in the NHL because he wasn't able to take enough time off for the hockey season. Tommy Gorman brought him back for the one year with the Maroons, but he wasn't able to continue after that year.

It seems a little strange because even the lower Depression era NHL salaries would have been easily more than his salary at the fire department, but I guess he made his long term career the priority.

1935
Connell back into full-time starter mode. Maroons advanced to playoffs and win the Stanley Cup. And although SIHR didn't give him a retro Smythe here, there is no doubt Connell had a "Conn Smythe worthy" run. Tommy Gorman called his play the "greatest goalkeeping performance in the history of hockey."

- official NHL all-stars:
1. Lorne Chabot
2. Tiny Thompson
3. Roy Worters
4. Alec Connell
5. George Hainsworth
6. Dave Kerr
7. Wilf Cude

- unofficial NHL coaches‘ all-stars:
1. Tiny Thompson
2. Roy Worters
3. Lorne Chabot, Wilf Cude & Alec Connell all mentioned with an undisclosed number of votes

- St. Louis Post-Dispatch (Jan 11, 1935) wrote mid-season:


- no goalie featured in Hart voting

The all-star votes for this season were very evenly split, more so than almost any other season I'm aware of. No goalkeeper appeared on half the ballots, and six of the league's eight regular goalies got substantial votes.

AS votes listed as first team-second team
Lorne Chabot 9-7 (Chicago, 88 GA)
Tiny Thompson 8-5 (Boston, 112 GA)
Roy Worters 7-4 (Americans, 142 GA)
Alec Connell 4-7 (Maroons, 92 GA)
George Hainsworth 3-5 (Toronto, 111 GA)
Dave Kerr 1-4 (Rangers, 139 GA)

Given that nobody stood out in the regular season, Connell is a fair pick as goaltender of the season for his regular season + playoffs. But it may not have been against a very strong field, either. It seems likely that a voting split like this is because the writers weren't really impressed by anyone.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Every Rogie Vachon playoff game

1967 Playoffs
Habs beat Rangers 6-4
Shots: Habs 36 Rangers 26
Habs 1 Rangers 0

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 7, 1967

Toe Blake considered changing the goalie. His team trailed 4-1 with 11 left in last night's playoff opener at the Forum. Rogie Vachon wasn't to blame, but veteran Gump Worsley could get some work in the losing cause.

Habs win 3-1
Shots: Habs 31 Rangers 27
Habs 2 Rangers 0

No relevant comments

Habs win 3-2
Shots: Habs 38 Rangers 30
Habs 3 Rangers 0

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎Apr 12, 1967

Goalies Vachon and Ed Giacomin thwarted all good scoring chances.

Habs win 2-1 in OT
Shots: Habs 29 Rangers 34
Habs 4 Rangers 0

No relevant comments



1967 Finals
Montreal wins 6-2
Shots: Habs 44 Leafs 26
Habs 1 Leafs 0

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎Apr 21, 1967

Habs' Vachon Playoff Surprise

If you're looking for a rag-to-riches them in this year's Stanley Cup playoffs, how about one young Rogatien Vachon? Two months ago the 21-year-old rookie netminder with Montreal Canadiens was virtually unknown in pro hockey ranks. Now he is in a position to help the club to its third straight Cup Victory. He earned the right to the No.1 goaltending job... In five playoff games, Vachon has allowed only ten goals.

In mid-February, Blake threw Vachon in against Detroit Red Wings. Early in the game, Detroit's Gordie Howe had a breakaway from centre ice. Howe let go with a sizzling drive from 30 feet only to have Vachon move out quickly to cut down the angle and block the shot. After that game Howe said the rookie had made a terrific save and "looks like a pretty good netminder."

Worsley, who has been relegated to the backup spot by Vachon, also thinks highly of the youngster. "Rodgie's greatest asset is the way he plays the angles," Worsley said. "He's got all the reflexes that make a great goalie. The only thing that might hurt him now will be overconfidence."

Rogatien Vachon, the Canadiens' 21-year-old rookie goaltender, went the route and came up with several big saves to keep the Leafs off balance.
Click to expand...

Leafs win 3-0
Shots: Habs 31 Leafs 43
Habs 1 Leafs 1

No relevant comments. Everyone is talking about Bower's shutout.


Leafs win 3-2 in double OT
Shots: Habs 63 Leafs 54
Habs 1 Leafs 2

The Leader-Post · ‎Apr 26, 1967

It was a frustrating loss for the Canadiens who had the Leafs on the ropes several times during the game, but couldn't find the key to Bower's cage. Rogatien Vachon was also good in the Montreal nets, stopping 51 shots.

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 26, 1967

Bower and Vachon stole the show with a total of 110 saves.

Habs win 6-2
Shots: Habs 40 Leafs 37
Habs 2 Leafs 2

The Windsor Star · ‎Apr 28, 1967

A crowd of 15,977 saw what could be described as a dismal letdown from Tuesday's brilliant overtime battle which was won by Toronto, 3-2. The goalkeeping of Bower and Montreal's Vachon in that, the third game of the finals, was magnificent. Vachon, the incredible rookie from Palmarolle, Quebec continued to dumbfound the hockey world in the fourth game with a sensational stand in the first three minutes which broke the back of a Toronto attack that did not again achieve momentum.

Montreal coach Toe Blake said, "If Vachon doesn't save us there, I don't know what might have happened. We started stone cold. I began to wonder where my players were the night before."

Vachon is providing one of the most remarkable stories in cup history. He had played only 19 games in the NHL when the playoffs began. For eight playoff games, his record is six wins and two defeats. Said Toronto assistant manager Frank (King) Clancy, "Vachon is fantastic...there's no other word for him. I would have never believed he could do what he is doing. And I never saw Beliveau play a better game."
Click to expand...

Leafs win 4-1
Shots: Habs 38 Leafs 28
Habs 2 Leafs 3

The Leader-Post · ‎May 1, 1967

Vachon lasted 40 minutes, allowing four goals on the 19 shots Toronto players fired at him. He was replaced by Lorne Worsley for the final 20 minutes. Worsley, who had not played since March 12, looked sharp in turning aside 10 Toronto shots.

Leafs win 3-1
Shots: Habs 41 Leafs 36
Habs 2 Leafs 4

Worsley started over Vachon


Losing the starting gig is a hard go. He's stellar in the first four games, but one bad period and he's out of there. Across the series, he's arguably the most praised Hab (or Beliveau). Sawchuk, Bower, Keon, Vachon, and Beliveau are the names that stick out to me for praise.


1968 Playoffs
Vachon comes in for Worsley in game 4 of the eastern finals.

Hawks beat Habs 2-1
Shots: Habs 29 Hawks 34
Habs 3 Hawks 1

No relevant comments

Habs win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Habs 40 Hawks 27
Habs 4 Hawks 1

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 29, 1968

Rogie Vachon, who took over from Gump Worsley, injured at Chicago Thursday, made his biggest saves late in the third period on a shot and rebound by Pit Martin and Bobby Hull and a boot save on Mikita with three minutes to go.

Worsley played the finals

1969 Playoffs
Worsley plays the first three games

Habs win 4-3
Shots: Habs 34 Rangers 27
Habs 4 Rangers 0

Vachon takes over 4 minutes into the game after Worsley hurts his knee

The Free Lance-Star · ‎Apr 7, 1969

So it was two spare goalies - Vachon and Villemure - battling it out and in the end, it was the Canadiens' defense that made the difference.

1969 Semifinals
Worsley plays the first three games

Bruins beat Habs 3-2
Shots: Habs 30 Bruins 32
Habs 2 Bruins 2

The Leader-Post · ‎Apr 21, 1969

Canadiens were without the services of veteran netminder Lorne Worsley who... suffered a dislocated finger in his left hand when hit by a hard shot by Boston's Ken Hodge. Worsley finished the game.

Montreal wins 4-2
Shots: Habs 25 Bruins 42
Habs 3 Bruins 2

The Leader-Post · ‎Apr 23, 1969

Vachon blocked 40 shots, 24 in the second period.

Orr, who lead rush after rush throughout the game. He played about 38 minutes and didn't make many mistakes.

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 23, 1969

Coach Harry Sinden appeared to be tearing his hair out as Vachon saved or his Bruins missed countless chances.

Vachon hardly believed he had 26 shots in the second period - but figured this was his best game of the season in Montreal.

There was no doubt Vachon made the difference in the long run, but over-all the Canadiens played one of their best skating games of the series. The line of Ralph Backstrom, Provost, and John Ferguson were always dangerous.

Montreal wins 2-1 in double OT
Shots: Habs 47 Bruins 51
Habs 4 Bruins 2

The Phoenix · ‎Apr 25, 1969

When the Bruins stormed back in the first overtime, Rogatien Vachon was there to stop them. Vachon, once called a junior B goaltender, proved he belongs in the big time with his second successive display of brilliance.

It was a duel between Vachon and Cheevers as both clubs went for broke.

Orr... had two chances in a row to get even with 53 seconds left in regulation time, but Vachon was not to be beaten. The young Boston star pressed in the first overtime period and led rush after rush.

After Beliveau's goal, Cheevers skated all the way down the ice to congratulate Vachon.

1969 Finals
Habs win 3-1
Shots: Habs 28 Blues 20
Habs 1 Blues 0

The Phoenix · ‎Apr 28, 1969

Young Rogatien Vachon, who performed brilliantly in the fifth and sixth games of the semi-finals against Boston Bruins, had a easy afternoon, blocking 19 shots.

Habs win 3-1
Shots: Habs 33 Blues 25
Habs 2 Blues 0

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 30, 1969

Rogatien Vachon came out of the pre-game warmup as an uncertain starter after suffering an arm injury from a shot by John Ferguson

The Habs were two men short through penalties to Bobby Rousseau and Savard when the Blues broke Vachon's shutout. The game made one stop but was lost in the traffic when Keenan, down on one knee, batted the loose puck into the corner.

Habs win 4-0
Shots: Habs 35 Blues 29
Habs 3 Blues 0

The Phoenix · ‎May 2, 1969

Vachon stopped 29 shots for his first shutout in 17 Stanley Cup appearances and was particularly brilliant in the second period when the Blues looked as though they were going to tie it up.

Habs win 2-1
Shots: Habs 31 Blues 33
Habs 4 Blues 0

The Phoenix · ‎May 5, 1969

Vachon, pressed into service when Gump Worsley was injured during the semi-final series with Boston on Bruins, was brilliant in blocking 32 shots.

Vachon came up with unbelievable stops on defenceman Noel Picard, Tim Ecclestone, Gary Sabourin and Terry Crisp.

Across the 1969 playoffs both Vachon and Worsley are tossed back and forth. Montreal wins because of obscene depth. Many Habs are praised over any goalie, neither is in the top 5 most praised, arguably outside the top 10.

1974 Playoffs
Hawks beat Kings 3-1
Shots: Kings 28 Hawks 32
Kings 0 Hawks 1

No relevant comment on either goalie


Blackhawks win 4-1
Shots: Kings 35 Hawks 28
Kings 0 Hawks 2

Lewiston Morning Tribune · ‎Apr 12, 1974

Most of the Kings' shots were of the soft variety and were not too troublesome for goalie Tony Esposito

Hawks win 1-0
Shots: Kings 32 Hawks 10
Kings 0 Hawks 3

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 15, 1974

The Black Hawks took only 10 shots on goal - just one in the second period and two in the third period - but their first effort on Kings' Goalie Rogie Vachon, a 25-footer by Germain Gagnon, came only 40 seconds in to the game and was enough for the victory.

Esposito... stopped 32 shots, including 13 in the final period when the Kings repeatedly swarmed the Chicago end.

Kings win 5-1. Veisor in net for the Hawks, Edwards in net for the Kings
Shots: Kings 33 Hawks 23
Kings 1 Hawks 3


Hawks win 1-0
Shots: Kings 18 Hawks 28
Kings 1 Hawks 4


Ottawa Citizen · ‎Apr 17, 1974
Tony Holds a "Hot Hand" for Hawks

Esposito was in the nets in all four victories for the Hawks and allowed the Kings a total of two goals.

Esposito, who had turned back only 18 shots because of Chicago's unyielding defence, said he was concerned throughout the series. "They have a good skating club and they can shoot. We got a couple of breaks; otherwise, this series could have gone a lot longer."

Vachon is barely even mentioned. To be fair, the Hawks thoroughly outplay the Kings, but he's basically a footnote.


1975 Playoffs
Kings beat Leafs 3-2 in OT in a best-of-three series
Shots: Kings 32 Leafs 30
Kings 1 Leafs 0

No relevant comments

Leafs win 3-2 in OT
Shots: Kings 41 Leafs 46
Kings 1 Leafs 1

The Press-Courier · ‎Apr 11, 1975

Vachon was particularly tough in the first period when he robbed Sittler twice, stopped Ron Ellis from close in and foiled Borje Salming on a pair of hard drives from just inside the blue line

Leafs win 2-1
Shots: Kings 22 Leafs 23
Kings 1 Leafs 2

The Leader-Post · ‎Apr 12, 1975

Bob Pulford...moulded the Kings, a club with no big names, into a tight-checking, disciplined unit that relies on goalie Rogatien Vachon to keep them in the game while they wait for the breaks.

1976 Playoffs
LA beats Atlanta 2-1 in a best-of-three series
Shots: Kings 26 Flames 20
Kings 1 Flames 0

The Journal · ‎Apr 7, 1976

With 5:24 left to play, Atlanta defenseman Barry Gibbs blasted a 50-foot slap shot to deprive Rogie Vachon of the shutout. Prior to Gibbs' goal, Vachon played brilliantly in the nets for the Kings.

LA beats Atlanta 1-0
Shots: Kings 26 Flames 27
Kings 2 Flames 0

Waycross Journal-Herald · ‎Apr 9, 1976

"I'm a poor loser," said Atlanta Coach Fred Creighton... "I thought we played well, but the guy (Vachon) played a super game. We had 10 scoring chances and we got nothing."

Bangor Daily News · ‎Apr 9, 1976

Goaltender Rogie Vachon was brilliant

Later in the period Bill Clement came in alone on Vachon, but the goalie refused to be beaten and stopped a shot from five feet in front of the net.

Bruins beat Kings 4-0
Shots: Kings 21 Bruins 23
Kings 0 Bruins 1

No relevant comments


Kings win 3-2 in OT. Gary Edwards plays instead of Vachon
Shots: Kings 23 Bruins 30
Kings 1 Bruins 1


Kings win 6-4
Shots: Kings 34 Bruins 31
Kings 2 Bruins 1

No relevant comments


Bruins win 3-0
Shots: Kings 27 Bruins 28
Kings 2 Bruins 2

The Windsor Star · ‎Apr 19, 1976

The Bruins are getting stiffer resistance from LA than they expected. This appears to be the work of Marcel Dionne and goalkeeper Rogatien Vachon.

Bruins win 7-1. Gary Edwards in net
Shots: Kings 20 Bruins 40
Kings 2 Bruins 3

Kings win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Kings 36 Bruins 27
Kings 3 Bruins 3

No relevant comments

Bruins win 3-0
Shots: Kings 15 Bruins 38
Kings 3 Bruins 4

St. Petersburg Times · ‎Apr 26, 1976

"Vachon was playing fantastic," said Boston goalie Gilles Gilbert

1977 Playoffs
Kings beat Atlanta 5-2
Shots: Kings 25 Flames 22
Kings 1 Flames 0

The Daily Sentinel · ‎Apr 6, 1977

The Kings are frequently regarded as a two-man team of forward Marcel Dionne and goalie Rogie Vachon.

Flames win 3-2
Shots: Kings 24 Flames 34
Kings 1 Flames 1

No relevant comments

Kings win 4-2
Shots: Kings 23 Flames 27
Kings 2 Flames 1

The Press-Courier · ‎Apr 11, 1977

Battle of goalies with Los Angeles' Vachon going against Boston's Gerry Cheevers. Both are playoff- wise veterans and the one with the hot hand could make the difference. Cheevers is wary of his rivals. "Vachon was the best goalie in the league the last five weeks, " he noted

Bostons wins 8-3
Shots: Kings 22 Bruins 32
Kings 0 Bruins 1

No relevant comments

Bruins win 6-2. Vachon pulled after 5 goals on 16 shots at the end of the second period
Shots: Kings 17 Bruins 23
Kings 0 Bruins 2


Bruins win 7-6
Shots: Kings 24 Bruins 29
Kings 0 Bruins 3

No relevant comments

Kings win 7-4
Shots: Kings 22 Bruins 34
Kings 1 Bruins 3

No relevant comments

Kings win 3-1
Shots: Kings 21 Bruins 40
Kings 2 Bruins 3

Times Daily · ‎Apr 21, 1977

The secret to the Kings' comeback is Rogie Vachon, brilliant at times during the regular season, but awful in the first three games, surrendering 20 goals. During LA's two wins he gave up five.

"I was really down after that third game," said Vachon, who owned the best GAA, 2.02, among active goalies prior to NHL postseason paly this year. "Now I think we're going to be the team to beat."

"He's a super competitor," said Boston netminder Gerry Cheevers of Vachon, "he'll be right there Thursday night. But he can't make any better saves than he did Tuesday. He can't."

Bruins win 4-3
Shots: Kings 18 Bruins 38
Kings 2 Bruins 4

The Telegraph · ‎Apr 22, 1977

"The story was the goaltending," said coach Don Cherry. "Rogie Vachon was super in the nets for the Kings and Gerry Cheevers made some key saves for us, particularly late in the game."

1978 Playoffs
Leafs beat Kings 7-3 in a best-of-three series
Shots: Kings 26 Leafs 32

No relevant comments

Leafs win 4-0
Shots: Kings 21 Leafs 19

Ottawa Citizen · ‎Apr 13, 1978

Rogatien Vachon, surely among the top three goalies in the league.... With the possible exception of Dryden, Vachon is as good as any of them and he has a good deal more work to do because he's playing behind a team without the personnel of the Canadiens, or the Bruins, or the Flyers.

LA does not get media coverage for hockey in the mid 70s. Vachon sounds okay, but nothing to write home about. Like Worsley, he doesn't get lots of praise on the dynasty Habs and doesn't get lots of praise away from them. He's praised on the 76 Canada Cup, so that's at least something.


1981 Playoffs
North Stars beat Bruins 5-4 in OT
Shots: Bruins 32 Stars 40
Bruins 0 North Stars 1

No relevant comments

Stars win 9-6
Shots: Bruins 40 Stars 32
Bruins 0 North Stars 2

Vachon is pulled at the start of the third after giving up 6 goals on 20 shots

Stars win 6-3
Shots: Bruins 39 Stars 45
Bruins 0 North Stars 3

No relevant comments

1982 Playoffs
Vachon only plays half a period in relief of Moffat (1 goal on 3 shots)


So there you have it, every Rogie Vachon playoff game.

 

[Michael Farkas]

Also, @Michael Farkas, are you still doing video mashups of the goalies? If you are and you have time, I'd be interested to see some video on Liut. I'm getting a real feeling that the optics and the results might not be equal when talking about him, and I'd like to have something to judge by. If not, have a great day anyway. Lol

Have some time on a flight, so let's take a quick look at Liut...

I want to take a fairly long sequence here if I can, where nothing really goes wrong for Liut...but this is something that I see in his game throughout his career. I assume he's a big guy, I don't know his vitals, but he seems like a big dude...and he moves well. Usually these guys, especially in this era, are very economical in their movement...but Liut is a real busy body. He's like...I don't know...Arturs Irbe busy.

Let's take a look at the dog**** preliminary round in dog-water 1981...



We start at that faceoff at 12:09...just drop it any ol' place ya like...screw the dots.

The first shot is probably gonna touch a Blues stick and change direction, so I don't fault a goalie for trying to hang with that. But do we really need to be all the way over here?

Ya know what? Maybe. Probably not. But maybe we do.

Then you let it roll a second...it's clear he loses track of the puck and now he's just jumping from post to post. He's trying to read context clues from players to see if he can get a sense out in front.

Ok, no big deal...he's not really doing anything wrong, like, he's covering the bases. He's basically doing the "phone, keys, wallet" check, but he has to do it on every article of clothing around him - pants, coat, shirt, shoes...

Blues fail to clear. We get to 12:18 or so, 12:19 of the video. You freeze it on the shot attempt from PIT17 (the RHS in the slot). Look at where Liut is positioned on that...

Is that square? Does that give the aura of great positioning? Does that tell me he's tracked this shooter? Not really. And I'm a few frames ahead of the shot attempt - that puck is on the way back out from the block. I wanted to give Liut the benefit of the doubt on where he wanted to settle. That's his spot. The weight on his skates has shifted. He wants that spot. I don't think that's a great spot.

But, too, this isn't a 0 out of 10 situation. Because he can move. He changes depth. And knowing what I know about him from watching, I know that he's gonna fight his way through that situation if that shot actually gets through. But it is a fight. It's really difficult to play from a deficiency on every shot. That catches up with you more often than not. Let's keep it rolling...

Puck goes back to the point, PIT2 takes a whirling dervish of a backhander from the point - as was the style at the time - it's a total muffin (or a pass?) and it ends up being a pass into the skates of PIT20.

Liut, you see, was getting depth on the point "shot" (or "pass"). And now, anything can happen with this puck in the feet of PIT20.

What does Liut do?

All right, if that's how you want to deal, I'm 100% in for that. That's reasonable and it's technically good. Let's play percentages. I feel like the pass isn't likely coming and if it does, my D ought to have it. I'm down for this. Mark me down. Good deal.

Let it roll a couple seconds...oh the joys of slightly-better-than WWII-level hockey. Somehow basically nothing happens...and Liut is on his toes enough to come out with the lizard tongue and go to bat for his own cause. That's awareness, I love the active stick, I like where his weight is on his blades, I like all of that. That's where being a busy body actually pays off.

Puck goes down the other way, so I'll fast forward us unless you want to see Greg Millen trying his best (he'd be traded for Liut four years after this). Millen often shifts his weight to his heels because he likes to flop after or during the initial save. Back to Liut...



Failed clear by the Blues, which is a pattern in this game...no wonder Liut makes 402,000 saves in this one.

It's a tight sequence, as Bob Cole would say, "everything is happening", but there's a key point in busy-bodying here at the end...

When PIT18 (Ross Lonsberry I believe) emerges and is ready to shoot...Liut drops into the butterfly and he's in really good shape. It's a good choice. It's good butterfly. It's good timing.

BUT...before Lonsberry pulls the trigger on the shot, Liut lifts his seal of the ice (whatever seal you can have in that equipment). Basically...he starts to get up. How many save selections per shot attempt? "One" is definitely the best answer. He goes from standing, to butterfly, and tries to get into some sort of hybrid thing before the puck hits him once.

Now, the puck doesn't go in here (because that's too easy, I could just feature goals on goalies I don't like a lot, but that's not "fair" to them or us), but again, I'm all about process.

So, you wonder how well positioned he is for the initial...



And then you have a lot of being busy, a lot of not being anchored...so you have a tough deficit to play out of. On the plus side, he can move for (what I presume is) a big guy...he has a lot of variety in his save selections and there is a technical backing to them.

I'll say this...if I had to do it again, I'd have Liut higher than I had him on my prelim (68). I have him down with Esposito and Giacomin. Maybe he belongs closer to Vachon, like a 10 or 12 spots up. Maybe more...? I don't know.

How he fits on our list...it's hard to say. There's a lot of "yeah, but..." goalies at this point, as we'd expect...

 

[jigglysquishy]

There's definitely a pattern of goalies having success very young in the 80s.

Barrasso wins the Vezina at age 20. He starts for the US at the Canada Cup at only 19.

Fuhr is a 2nd AS at age 19.

Roy wins the Conn Smythe at age 20.

Vanbiesbrouck is a 1st AS as a 22 year old sophomore.

Ron Hextall wins 1st AS, Conn Smythe, and Vezina as a rookie.

Even Liut's big season he's only 25.

Just lots of raw goalies coming in young and finding big success early.

For most of them (Roy, Fuhr, Liut, Barrasso) they were winning awards before they hit their prime. Like, going through playoff reports, it's clear Liut was a more confident goalie with a stronger command of the game in 84-85-86 than his Pearson in 1981. Roy was much better in 1989-1993 than in his 1986 Conn Smythe. Fuhr hits his prime in 1986, but is an NHL AS 4 years earlier.

I think it gives credence to the state of NHL goaltending ~1980-1985 being weaker.

 

[Michael Farkas]

It does. It's also when cable TV became popular and thus, more games were available. It's where we got a lot of blanket tropes that hang with us today.

"Getting a book" on a goalie (young goalies, especially ones with, uhh,.unique tactics) failing or having significant drop off after early success.

And d-men needing 200+ games before they can be judged. Because it seems like a lot of d-men just........did whatever...when they came into the league. Watch young Scott Stevens, it's a hot mess.

I think that just speaks to how poor evaluation and development were...and namely, it's for the players primarily in charge of preventing goals. That's why every game was 8-6 in 1982 haha

I don't mean that those blanket tropes are wrong or always false. You do get a book on a goalie, some d-men do need that kind of time...but it's not something that can be universally applied. It's meant for certain player types, but you'd have to be able to identify those player types in the first place...and if you can do that, then you probably don't use blanket tropes haha

 

[jigglysquishy]

I think we seriously need to look at ending the project early, maybe even as early as #40.

@frisco
@tony d
@Vilica
@bobholly39
@ContrarianGoaltender
@VanIslander
@rmartin65
@seventieslord
@Weztex
have not posted this week

@nabby12
@The Pale King
@Dr John Carlson
have only posted once this week

So of the 19 of us, 12 have functionally abandoned the project.

This project is only as good as the discussion. With discussion having died off I think we need to face reality on the project.

It sucks. I've poured a ton of time into this. But I can't ignore what's actually (not) happening.

 

[VanIslander]

I wish we had at least 2 weeks per round at the busiest time of the year.

Gawd the Thanksgiving to Christmas stretch is full.

What's the hurry? Give us an extra week or two before voting.

An organic pace might take us into the new year.

Hard and fast rules might not be wise.

Note: no ATD project has had heavy participation in the 6 weeks before Christmas! ... we are busy as f.

 

[bobholly39]

I think we seriously need to look at ending the project early, maybe even as early as #40.

@frisco
@tony d
@Vilica
@bobholly39
@ContrarianGoaltender
@VanIslander
@rmartin65
@seventieslord
@Weztex
have not posted this week

@nabby12
@The Pale King
@Dr John Carlson
have only posted once this week

So of the 19 of us, 12 have functionally abandoned the project.

This project is only as good as the discussion. With discussion having died off I think we need to face reality on the project.

It sucks. I've poured a ton of time into this. But I can't ignore what's actually (not) happening.

There was a lot of drama in the thread last week, and it was very offputting.

I've opened this thread this week and read through it plenty of times, but I just didn't feel like getting dragged into more drama. That's why I haven't posted anything.

 

[The Pale King]

This week is tough, participation aside. I've probably preached enough about Quick (but I'm going to one more time here); he was the top vote getter last week that didn't move on and he looks very good in the new metrics discussed this week. Those being his stats in clinching and elimination games, as well as his playoff record vs teams you would expect him to beat vs the opposite. The TLDR is his Kings teams were never eliminated by an underdog, and they were only the favoured team on three occasions. This while having a Conn Smythe, another Smythe worthy run, and if you flipped the coasts I think he'd have won the 2012 Vezina over Lundqvist. I'm confident the group will elect him this week.

If you're on the fence, watch his performance in the 2014 SCF game 3 against our 12th ranked goalie, paying particular attention to his work around his posts and his awareness when the puck is behind the net, as well as how he completely snuffs out the rebound chances by collapsing on them. The Kings come into MSG for game 3 and win 3-0 on just 15 shots, with a couple that Hank would probably like back. Quick makes 32 saves for the shutout, including a couple of absolute robberies. But mostly, he's just absolutely dialed in pre-shot to the point where he's absorbing them in the center of his body despite extensive pre-shot puck movement by the Rangers. It's emphatic, it's damning. Check out the shot chart for this one on Hockey Reference. The series was pretty much over after this and it's a pretty big flop on Lundqvist's part that hasn't been discussed (and unfortunately the time has passed for that).


2013-14 Stanley Cup Final Game 3, Los Angeles Kings vs. New York Rangers Box Score: June 9, 2014 | Hockey-Reference.com

So we're left with a bunch of guys who mostly have spotty playoff records. It's kind of a pick-your-poison where I'm evaluating the different playoff failures against each-other. These guys obviously have lots of upside but it's hard to fully go to bat for them. And a few of them I came into the project wanting to like (Liut and Vachon, Giacomin), but who don't look as good as I was expecting them to.

I like Barrasso more than Fleury. I think Worsely should get the nod over Vachon. Bobrovsky's two Vezinas are misleading... there are a number of Vezina-less guys I would take over him. Rask has the great regular seasons in pretty optimal environments but also some melt-downs in the playoffs. People say they like Dave Kerr, and I remember liking him when making my initial list (more than all the Rangers goalies except Hank) but can someone convince me it's time for him?

I'm rambling but just trying to get the ball rolling here again.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

I think we seriously need to look at ending the project early, maybe even as early as #40.

@frisco
@tony d
@Vilica
@bobholly39
@ContrarianGoaltender
@VanIslander
@rmartin65
@seventieslord
@Weztex
have not posted this week

@nabby12
@The Pale King
@Dr John Carlson
have only posted once this week

So of the 19 of us, 12 have functionally abandoned the project.

This project is only as good as the discussion. With discussion having died off I think we need to face reality on the project.

It sucks. I've poured a ton of time into this. But I can't ignore what's actually (not) happening.

I can't disagree that participation is slowing down, but from what I recall, it's often like that for the "late middle" part of any project. There's always a ton of discussion about the first 25 or 30 spots, then there's also a push at the end to make sure that the "right" players end up on the list. This section (when players are battling for 37th vs 41st) is inherently less exciting.

(I also like @VanIslander's suggestion of letting each round run for two weeks - what's the rush?)