HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 7

MadArcand

Whaletarded
Dec 19, 2006
5,963
499
Seat of the Empire
As the parent of three small kids, “sleep like a baby” is total bullshit.
As a parent of 3 and (not even) 1 year olds, I can agree only partially. They actually slept well as babies (from 2nd month onwards), but it got infinitely worse around the time the older one could get out of bed. At age 3+ she even needs melatonin to go to bed at child-appropriate time instead of staying up til 11-12...

However I don't know if "eating like a baby" is a thing, but that's where the real nightmares lie...😵‍💫


On topic, this round truly makes me happy I decided not to participate this time around. I feel like majority of these names are too early, some by far. I'd have an apoplexy trying to sort that mess out. The only ones I always truly liked were Beezer & Kipper.
 

CuuuJooo

Registered User
May 28, 2021
284
327
Maybe it's because they went into the HOF together (still trying to process that), but to me, Barrasso and Vernon occupy a similar tier (ie, IT'S TOO SOON).

I would love to hear angry arguments from those more knowledgeable than me.

*sits back, cracks beer*
 

overpass

Registered User
Jun 7, 2007
5,570
3,962
Ottawa, ON
Does anyone have any thoughts on Kiprusoff's large home/road split in his stats? I believe it's the largest among goalies in the last 25 years or more.

Career Home: 197-89-37, 2.23 GAA, 0.919 SV%
Career Road: 122-124-34, 2.79 GAA, 0.906 SV%

And his backups, who rarely played, played a substantial portion of Calgary's second half of back to backs on the road. So he was getting an easier selection of road games, if anything.

Does anyone who followed the Flames remember if Kiprusoff was known to be better at home? Or was it the whole team?

Subsequent Calgary goalies haven't had the same pattern to their home/road splits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bear of Bad News

Professor What

Registered User
Sep 16, 2020
2,668
2,342
Gallifrey
Maybe it's because they went into the HOF together (still trying to process that), but to me, Barrasso and Vernon occupy a similar tier (ie, IT'S TOO SOON).

I would love to hear angry arguments from those more knowledgeable than me.

*sits back, cracks beer*
Well, I could buy Barrasso here. Glad Vernon isn't up.

I saw Barrasso as a borderline case for the Hall. Vernon was a no, just no.
 

blogofmike

Registered User
Dec 16, 2010
2,327
1,156
My impressions of who could steal me a playoff game:

Group 1
Known Thieves of Playoff Games
  • Alec Connell
  • Curtis Joseph
  • John Vanbiesbrouck
Group 2
Capable Thieves who Were a Little More Likely than Group 1 Guys to Give Something Back
  • Tom Barrasso
  • Sergei Bobrovsky
  • Marc-Andre Fleury
  • Miikka Kiprusoff
  • Hap Holmes
  • Jonathan Quick
  • Rogie Vachon
Group 3
Not Thieves, or at least not Huge Net Thieves
  • Percy LeSueur
  • Chuck Rayner
  • Gump Worsley
Group 4
Would Give You The Jersey Off His Back
  • Ed Giacomin

This is not the sum total of accomplishments, or entirely indicative of my votes (Quick should be high for me, and above Connell). I thought it was a fun way to have a discussion without saying "here's my ballot."

If anyone is particularly outraged about anyone in particular, please ask me to explain myself.
 

frisco

Some people claim that there's a woman to blame...
Sep 14, 2017
3,781
2,879
Northern Hemisphere
Maybe it's because they went into the HOF together (still trying to process that), but to me, Barrasso and Vernon occupy a similar tier (ie, IT'S TOO SOON).

I would love to hear angry arguments from those more knowledgeable than me.

*sits back, cracks beer*
Vezina Finalists:
Vernon 2
Barrasso 1-2-2-2-3

Vezina finishes aren't all there is obviously as it is just one piece of information, but in this case, I think it shows the difference between the two.

My Best-Carey
 

frisco

Some people claim that there's a woman to blame...
Sep 14, 2017
3,781
2,879
Northern Hemisphere
Playoff records:
  • Tom Barrasso 61-54
  • Sergei Bobrovsky 45-43
  • Alec Connell 8-5
  • Marc-Andre Fleury 92-74
  • Ed Giacomin 29-35
  • Hap Holmes N/A
  • Curtis Joseph 63-66
  • Miikka Kiprusoff 25-28
  • Percy LeSueur N/A
  • Chuck Rayner 9-9
  • Jonathan Quick 49-43
  • Rogie Vachon 23-23
  • John Vanbiesbrouck 28-38
  • Gump Worsley 40-26

Disclaimer: This is just one objective set of data. It is not the only measure of a goaltender's quality. Please use this with other information provided to help make your selections.

My Best-Carey
 

CuuuJooo

Registered User
May 28, 2021
284
327
I do think Barrasso had more of a case than Vernon (although I'm still not convinced that the former should be in). Does the blame ultimately lie with Lanny McDonald's moustache?
 

Michael Farkas

Celebrate 68
Jun 28, 2006
14,965
10,424
NYC
www.youtube.com
Nah. Vernon is at least two if not three tiers below either. Vernon's run of playoff incompetence on the 90s Flames is utterly unbelievable and historically unparalleled.
Give me more here...? (If you please). I really don't see as big of a gap as other folks. Three tiers below puts him down in like...what...Ron Hextall territory? Jon Casey?
 

blogofmike

Registered User
Dec 16, 2010
2,327
1,156
I agree. And Fuhr is on that tier too. Guys that knew how to play, but had serious flaws. High highs, low lows. Structurally proficient, but a bit unpolished.

Beer me!
I agree more with the you from the last project...

Was Billy Smith ever in a prolonged situation where he couldn't look "always good"? Honest question. He never really faced any different circumstances like Fuhr did. Eras and teams change with Fuhr, plus international competition...Smith was a tandem goalie and that goalie always had the best years of his career in the tandem...often statistically outdueling him...too often for me to consider him here.

Smith is going to have a real hard time getting too much credit from me personally. I think Fuhr was comfortably better than him...
 

Michael Farkas

Celebrate 68
Jun 28, 2006
14,965
10,424
NYC
www.youtube.com
Heh, yeah a lot changes in 12 years of learning more about the game and watching a ton more games. The shift in going by feels of stat-awards vs. doing the work changes a lot. Confirms some other things.
 

Professor What

Registered User
Sep 16, 2020
2,668
2,342
Gallifrey
My impressions of who could steal me a playoff game:

Group 1
Known Thieves of Playoff Games
  • Alec Connell
  • Curtis Joseph
  • John Vanbiesbrouck
Group 2
Capable Thieves who Were a Little More Likely than Group 1 Guys to Give Something Back
  • Tom Barrasso
  • Sergei Bobrovsky
  • Marc-Andre Fleury
  • Miikka Kiprusoff
  • Hap Holmes
  • Jonathan Quick
  • Rogie Vachon
Group 3
Not Thieves, or at least not Huge Net Thieves
  • Percy LeSueur
  • Chuck Rayner
  • Gump Worsley
Group 4
Would Give You The Jersey Off His Back
  • Ed Giacomin

This is not the sum total of accomplishments, or entirely indicative of my votes (Quick should be high for me, and above Connell). I thought it was a fun way to have a discussion without saying "here's my ballot."

If anyone is particularly outraged about anyone in particular, please ask me to explain myself.
So just to be clear (for thick-headed me) this is just about playoffs, right? Because I think that prime Giacomin wasn't giving much of anything in the regular season.
 

nabby12

Registered User
Nov 11, 2008
1,647
1,481
Winnipeg
1732825688683.png


I was very happy to see Alex Connell and Sergei Bobrovsky come up this round. They'll likely be in my top-3 here along with Quick.

Alex Connell was a very phenomenal goalie of his day that still doesn't get the praise he likely deserves for being so clutch throughout his career in the Stanley Cup playoffs.

Connell is a Hockey Hall of Famer that won two Stanley Cups. One with Ottawa in 1927 and the other in 1935 as a member of the Montreal Maroons.

Connell first joined the Ottawa Senators for the 1924–25 season after the Senators dealt star goaltender Clint Benedict to the expansion Maroons as Benedict was having some off-ice issues with the team. Connell steadied the ship in Ottawa during a rough time and led them to the Stanley Cup a few years later in 1927.

In the 1927–28 season he set the NHL record—unbroken as of now—for the longest shutout streak at 461:29, by recording seven consecutive shutouts and another 41 minutes in the eighth game, from January 31 to February 22, 1928.

What's craziest though is how Connell returned out of semi-retirement to play for the Montreal Maroons in 1934-35, at the behest of new Maroons' coach Tommy Gorman, who had won the Cup with Chicago the previous season. Then 33 years old, Alec rebounded to his old form, leading the NHL in shutouts for the fourth time and finishing second behind Chicago's Lorne Chabot for the Vezina Trophy as leading goaltender.

Connell went undefeated in the 1935 playoffs for the Maroons to lead them to the Stanley Cup, allowing only four goals in the Cup finals. It was simply incredible. Gorman called his play the "greatest goalkeeping performance in the history of hockey," which I'll admit is a bit hyperbolic considering what Gorman's own Charlie Gardiner did the previous year for the Chicago Black Hawks in the 1934 playoffs.

Some other facts about Alex's legacy:
At the time of his retirement, Connell was second in NHL career shutouts, and nearly ninety years later, is still in sixth place, with 81. He is the only goaltender in league history to record 15 or more shutouts in two separate seasons. Connell's 1.91 career goals against average (GAA) is the lowest for any goaltender in the history of the National Hockey League, a record he has held for over ninety years. He is also the career leader for playoff goals-against average for goalies playing over twenty games.

Connell was also one of the first goaltenders to transition in 1927 from the cricket-style pads of the early days of hockey to the wider modern-style leather-and-kapok pads, pioneered by Hamilton harnessmaker Pop Kenesky. He was inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame in 1958, but died before his formal induction after a lengthy illness on May 10, 1958.

Upon his death, former teammate King Clancy said, "To me, Alec was a grand competitor, a great fellow and a great friend -- one of the outstanding goalies of his time." The Society for International Hockey Research, in compiling a "retroactive" Conn Smythe Trophy (most valuable player in the playoffs) list, deemed that Connell would have won in 1927 had the trophy been awarded back then. Charles Coleman, in Trail of the Stanley Cup, believed that Connell would have won the Vezina Trophy in 1926 too, in like fashion.
 

MadArcand

Whaletarded
Dec 19, 2006
5,963
499
Seat of the Empire
Give me more here...? (If you please). I really don't see as big of a gap as other folks. Three tiers below puts him down in like...what...Ron Hextall territory? Jon Casey?
Hextall over Vernon is very easy for me. Casey, maybe same tier. Or Bob Essensa, really. We're talking clearly below Kelly Hrudey and far below Daren Puppa.

What Vernon did to one of the best teams of the early 90s was abominable.

89-90, 2nd overall (2 points behind Bruins). Faces .469 Kings, loses in 1st round. Scoring almost 4 gpg... but Vernon goes .872 and loses to a mediocre.883 Hrudey.

90-91, 4th overall, 100-point team. Faces .500 Oilers, loses in 1st round. Offense just below 3 gpg is respectable, but Vernon gets outplayed by Fuhr, losing game 7 in ot.

91-92 they somehow miss the playoffs, 5th best offense sunk by 19th out of 22 defense, led by his majesty of 3.58 GAA, -9.8 gsaa and .883 sv%.

92-93 back to 97 points. Faces .524 Kings, scores 4.66 gpg, eats Vernon's .815 to lose in 1st round. Fleury alone scores 2 ppg and they still lose because Vernon's play is equally abysmal as that of Jeff Reese.

93-94, 97 points again. Faces .506 Canucks, scores decent almost 3 gpg. Vernon to the rescue with .895, outplayed by Kirk McLean on the way to game 7 ot loss.

Hell he pulls .889 including stellar .854 in the finals next year with the Wings. And .864 as backup the year after. Then he pulls a Conn Smythe out of his ass.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Bear of Bad News

The Pale King

Go easy on those Mango Giapanes brother...
Sep 24, 2011
3,235
2,689
Zeballos
My impressions of who could steal me a playoff game:

Group 1
Known Thieves of Playoff Games
  • Alec Connell
  • Curtis Joseph
  • John Vanbiesbrouck
Group 2
Capable Thieves who Were a Little More Likely than Group 1 Guys to Give Something Back
  • Tom Barrasso
  • Sergei Bobrovsky
  • Marc-Andre Fleury
  • Miikka Kiprusoff
  • Hap Holmes
  • Jonathan Quick
  • Rogie Vachon
Group 3
Not Thieves, or at least not Huge Net Thieves
  • Percy LeSueur
  • Chuck Rayner
  • Gump Worsley
Group 4
Would Give You The Jersey Off His Back
  • Ed Giacomin

This is not the sum total of accomplishments, or entirely indicative of my votes (Quick should be high for me, and above Connell). I thought it was a fun way to have a discussion without saying "here's my ballot."

If anyone is particularly outraged about anyone in particular, please ask me to explain myself.
Having Barasso, Fleury, and Quick in the same category for playoff goalies feels wrong to me. And having Joseph above Quick also seems strange. I won't spend too much time on Barasso and Fleury, their playoff failures have been discussed a fair bit already; Quick is clearly at least one tier ahead of them for me in terms of playoffs only.

In terms of Joseph vs. Quick: if you are a GM, do you want the goalie who gives your underdog team a shocking first round sweep then turns into a bit of a pumpkin the next round 2 years in a row, or do you want those upset rounds stacked in the same season, giving you a chance at a Cup? It's pretty clear to me which I'd prefer.

The 2012 Kings beat the number 1, 2, and 3 seeds in the West on the way to a somewhat anti-climatic Cup Final against the Devils. I don't have the numbers in front of me, but the Kings never trailed in a series, and I feel like they spent very little time trailing in games on the score board, period. Quick didn't let many teams score first, and there was an inevitability to that whole run that I haven't really seen anywhere else.

Joseph should get credit for the pair of first round upsets in 96-97 and 97-98 against the Stars and Avalanche respectively. But which teams did he lose to in the second round those years? The Avalanche and the Stars, 4-1 in each case. Obviously great teams, but those years form almost the entirety of his case as a money goalie, don't they?

Joseph is fine with the Leafs, but would they have been better off keeping Potvin? Look what Potvin did with those early 00s Kings teams in the playoffs. Knocking off the loaded 01 Wings and then losing a very close series to the Avalanche, including an all-time goaltending duel with Patrick Roy has a whiff of late 90s Cujo to it, doesn't it?

I don't knock him too much for getting outdueled by Arturs Irbe either. He made my list (or at least I think he did).
 
Last edited:

Ad

Upcoming events

Ad

Ad