HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 7

Professor What

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Getting back to Fleury, I do see him as something of a complier. He's second all-time in wins. Great. But that's perhaps the goalie stat that I hate the most. I mean, I guess it can show that a guy is a workhorse, but he was certainly never a Brodeur there, or it can show that he was solid for a while. I can give him that. I just feel like we're still at a part of the list where I want something better than solid.

I think the most apt comparison I can make is Mike Gartner. The guy played some pretty good hockey for a really long time. But I think that most here feel that he doesn't belong in the Hall. This list will get there, but it's not there yet. I think I'm warming up more to the idea of CuJo in the Hall though. I've always been borderline on him, but I think we're in the area that he belongs. We've still got Hall of Famers coming. I don't want to go down the error of so and so is in so that means this guy should be in, but I do think that CuJo keeps company with, if not sits ahead of some of the guys that I think are rightly in.
 

Bear of Bad News

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I would like everyone to actively participate as well, and if the current discourse is preventing some people from being willing to put their opinions out there, I want to do what we need to do to ensure that we can do that.

Please treat one another as colleagues or, dare I say, friends. We all share a common interest and it's our combined background that makes this project (and others) successful.
 

Hockey Outsider

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Curtis Joseph never made a Cup final, but he did make two Conference Finals. Since they are both losses, I'll also include the previous series he won.

1999 Playoffs
Penguins beat Leafs 2-0
Shots: Leafs 20 Penguins 19
Leafs 0 Penguins 1

The Leader-Post· May 8, 1999



Leafs win 4-2
Shots: Leafs 25 Penguins 27
Leafs 1 Penguins 1

The Leader-Post· May 10, 1999



Penguins win 4-3
Shots: Leafs 29 Penguins 21
Leafs 1 Penguins 2

The Leader-Post· May 12, 1999



Leafs win 3-2 in OT
Shots: Leafs 30 Penguins 14
Leafs 2 Penguins 2

Pittsburgh Post-Gazette · ‎May 14, 1999



Leafs win 4-1
Shots: Leafs 20 Penguins 16
Leafs 3 Penguins 2

Beaver Country Times · ‎May 16, 1999



Leafs win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Leafs 30 Penguins 28
Leafs 4 Penguins 2

Beaver Country Times · ‎May 18, 1999


Good series overall. Joseph is the most praised Leaf and second most praised player after Jagr. Leafs do a good job of preventing shots.



Sabres beat Leafs 5-4
Shots: Leafs 32 Sabres 21
Leafs 0 Sabres 1

Beaver Country Times · ‎May 24, 1999



Leafs beat Sabres 6-3
Shots: Leafs 28 Sabres 33
Leafs 1 Sabres 1

The Day · ‎May 26, 1999



Sabres win 4-2. Hasek returns.
Shots: Leafs 26 Sabres 24
Leafs 1 Sabres 2

Observer-Reporter · ‎May 28, 1999



Sabres win 5-2. Joseph pulled after two periods
Shots: Leafs 33 Sabres 32
Leafs 1 Sabres 3

The Vindicator · ‎May 30, 1999



Sabres win 4-2
Shots: Leafs 24 Sabres 22
Leafs 1 Sabres 4

The Leader-Post· ‎Jun 1, 1999


Well, the Sabres miss Hasek for two games and still win the series 4-1. As the last line said, Toronto needed Joseph to steal them a game and he didn't.


2002 Playoffs
Sens beat Leafs 5-0
Shots: Leafs 27 Sens 33
Leafs 0 Sens 1

Beaver Country Times · ‎May 5, 2002



Leafs beat Sens 3-2 in triple OT
Shots: Leafs 42 Sens 56
Leafs 1 Sens 1

The Leader-Post · ‎May 6, 2002



Sens win 3-2
Shots: Leafs 28 Sens 29
Leafs 1 Sens 2

The Leader-Post · ‎May 7, 2002



Leafs win 2-1
Shots: Leafs 24 Sens 25
Leafs 2 Sens 2

The Leader-Post · ‎May 9, 2002



Sens win 4-2
Shots: Leafs 28 Sens 21
Leafs 2 Sens 3

No relevant comments. Joseph has an .850SV%


Leafs win 4-3
Shots: Leafs 19 Sens 23
Leafs 3 Sens 3

The Leader-Post · ‎May 14, 2002



Leafs win 3-0
Shots: Leafs 27 Sens 19
Leafs 4 Sens 3

The Leader-Post · ‎May 15, 2002



Leafs beat Hurricanes 2-1
Shots: Leafs 24 Hurricanes 32
Leafs 1 Hurricanes 0

The Leader-Post · ‎May 17, 2002



Carolina wins 2-1 in OT
Shots: Leafs 27 Hurricanes 33
Leafs 1 Hurricanes 1

No relevant comments

Carolina wins 2-1 in OT
Shots: Leafs 21 Hurricanes 17 (oof)
Leafs 1 Hurricanes 2

The Leader-Post · ‎May 22, 2002



Hurricanes win 3-0
Shots: Leafs 31 Hurricanes 15
Leafs 1 Hurricanes 3

No relevant comments


Leafs win 1-0
Shots: Leafs 19 Hurricanes 27
Leafs 2 Hurricanes 3

The Leader-Post · ‎May 27, 2002



Hurricanes win 2-1 in OT
Shots: Leafs 36 Hurricanes 35
Leafs 2 Hurricanes 4

The Leader-Post · ‎May 29, 2002



A good, not great run. Back-to-back losses to Carolina where they don't hit 20 shots hurts. Getting cleanly outplayed by Irbe hurts. The Leafs media is all over Joseph and it sounds like his hand was never close to game-ready.


Overall, definitely get the picture of an inconsistent goalie with a good, not great team in front of him. I don't think he ever collapses in the losses, but he gets thoroughly outplayed by the opposing goalie both times.
Thanks for posting. This is largely consistent with what I remember. (I would have watched all, or almost all, of these games - not that my memory is infallible 20+ years later).

In 1999, he was excellent in round 1. In round 2 he struggled with peak Jagr (understandable) but was fairly good overall. The conference finals against Buffalo was probably a coin flip had Hasek been healthy. Joseph had a couple of really bad games and only went 1-1 facing off against an inexperienced Dwayne Roloson. Definitely a disappointing end, as this series was winnable. (Regardless, the Leafs would have been trounced by Dallas).

The 2002 summary excludes the 7 game war against the Islanders. That was one of the roughest series of the Dead Puck Era. Joseph was fairly good overall (but he had a couple of bad games). The entire team looked awful in game 1 against Ottawa (the Leafs only had one day to rest while the Sens had a full week - Joseph wasn't good but the entire team was horrendously outplayed). But he was lights out the rest of the way. Joseph held the Sens to 13 goals over the next 6 games (one of which went into triple OT). Keep in mind that Sundin missed the entire series. The Leafs absolutely should have lost, but Joseph won the series for them (and Gary Roberts).

I'll defend Joseph's play in the 2002 conference finals. He was excellent. "Outplayed by Arturs Irbe" isn't a great look, but I didn't see much difference in the actual performance. To the extent Joseph was blamed (and I don't recall much at the time), it was scapegoating. The Leafs big three scorers (Sundin, Mogilny and Roberts) combined for 2 goals and 2 assists in a six game series. The Leafs scored 3 goals in the final 4 games. If I've added this up correctly, they scored 4 goals over the final 355 minutes (0.67 goals per 60). Joseph did everything he realistically could have done. (Once again, the Leafs would have been absolutely trounced in the SC Finals, so the drought would have continued, but the forwards need to take the blame for this one).

Overall, during the Leafs two deep runs, I think Joseph had three excellent series (1999 Flyers, 2002 Sens, 2002 Canes), two good but not great series (1999 Pens, 2002 Isles), and one bad series (1999 Sabres).
 

jigglysquishy

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How are people feeling about International play?

Joseph had a good, not great 1996 World Cup. He was excellent against Sweden, and just okay against the US. How much does it matter in single elimination games? He ended up getting pulled by his own NHL coach after one bad game at the 2002 Olympics.

Fleury was the third-string goalie in 2010 and didn't make 2014 or 2016. Mike Smith made the team over him in 2014.

Quick had a great 2014 Olympics. He lets in 1 goal on 37 shots against Canada and still loses. Hard to blame him. And I remember him getting bombarded.

Barrasso was good at the 1984 CC. Vanbiesbrouck got the starter nod in 1987. Mike Richter got it in 1991, 1996, 1998, and 2002. Does it matter that American coaches routinely did not pick Barrasso or Vanbiesbrouck?

Vachon was stellar in 1976, but with arguably Canada's best roster ever in front of him. Orr, Potvin, Robinson, Savard in front of him is about as easy as it gets for a goalie.

Kiprusoff was excellent at the 2004 World Cup and hurt at the 2006 Olympics. He was poor at the 2010 Olympics.

Everyone else is too old.
 

Yozhik v tumane

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We’re blessed to share in all of your efforts into researching and discussing this project.

I don’t think it’s fair to make out Farkas as someone profoundly disrespectful towards the history of the game or that he’s someone particularly biased towards modern goaltending. He’s a vigorous debater and I get that sometimes one may feel like he’s out to score points off you or whatever, but as an onlooker, I don’t think him straying from general consensus/common sense picks and defending his informed opinions as comprehensively and transparently as he does in any way hurts this process. Certainly nobody would hurt from following the above advice from @Bear of Bad News, I think you’re able to discuss your opinions in a respectful manner.

Please don’t clam up because you don’t care for one participant’s controversial takes, all of your contributions are making the project worthwhile to follow.
 

Michael Farkas

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Before anyone else births a litter of kittens here, let me at least go out with good information haha

Major transition met with adaptability by Miikka Kiprusoff.

I think it's no secret anymore that the rule changes and style of play changes that came about on the other side of the Big Sleep in 2005 had a major effect on goaltending. A lot of goalies that had success in the DPE or were developing in the DPE were wiped out. Very few were elite on both sides. Brodeur and Luongo are both already up on the board, but Miikka Kiprusoff ought not to wait much longer in my opinion.

Now, history is a little friendlier to names like Brodeur and Luongo...while Kipper's name doesn't quite have the same punch. But it's not for lack of ability.

Like Brodeur, Kipper didn't over-react and throw himself out of the play. But also like Brodeur, he fought like hell to make sure he stayed in the play as effectively as he could. Usually this was because the puck was at the end of its path and he (they?) could commit at that point. As opposed to making the first move, going all in on that move, and then if something else happened - you'd be sunk. I've detailed that with some other goalies already, I won't mention any names as to not incite a riot haha

One of the old mantra's in some goalie schools is "head, hands, feet" - as the order of operations for aligning one's self to a shot. I feel like Braden Holtby sort of brought that vernacular back into semi-popular hockey circles at his peak. Kipper was all about that lifestyle. He had two modes, "head, hands, feet" and "fishing" and I have no clips of him fishing coming up.

Let's take a look...

Watch here for just 15-18 seconds (should start at 9:47).



It shouldn't be too difficult to track goalie and puck in the same line of vision as the puck basically magnetized to the kick plate.

Here's a freeze frame within the same second.

Screenshot-2024-11-27-152913.png

Head tracking. Now, he's hybrid goalie. He'd prefer to stay upright, but has butterfly as a save selection. So low angle shots don't bother him (unlike a lot of the RVH goalies today...like Matt Murray, who has been mentioned...that blocking style, making the first move and being stuck with it, that's not a positive usually...and that's not Kipper). You see the stick is protecting the passing lane adjacent to the net as well. He kept that handy. Though, he was repulsive at playing the puck outside of the crease haha

Screenshot-2024-11-27-153001.png

Sorry for the grain, but in case people don't want to click the video. The puck has transitioned to the other side of the net. But it's not actionable for the goalie, so he feels no need to throw himself anywhere. First, let me identify (head), now let's bring the torso with - you see the stick hand is going to swing, the glove hand is obscured but it's moving too (hands)...last, I'll bring my feet. His right skate is still on the far side post.

This seems a little counterintuitive to some, but it's quite effective in the right hands. Now, Kipper was very mobile, he wasn't all over the floor, and he had ultra fast extremities...so he could take the time to scan...sort of a measure twice, cut once, sort of deal.

Let's watch it in real action.



Same movement. He identifies the shooter, chooses a save selection, and while he does give up a semi-uncontrolled rebound, he's in a position where now he can sell out into that because there's only so many places that puck was gonna reasonably go after that save and he was gonna be there to pounce. That's a very Brodeur-ian sequence, albeit maybe deeper in the net than Marty would play.

His ability to track the puck, keep his feet, and move with the play is what allowed him to transition so well to the new more open style of play. But it wasn't just his lateral mobility that made him useful, he also had some speed matching going back too (not that he had a lot of room, he played pretty deep).

Watch the save here...



Good depth, out to challenge, doesn't over-commit, moves laterally AND back with the shooter who is easily able to slip loose of his check...

"Ok, so why didn't we get more greatness out of him?"

Always a good question. One, he got a late start. He was like 5'10" and wasn't a butterfly goalie. So, it took a while for anyone to trust him. But once they realized it (with a little help from Warren Strelow), then he really got after it. 1.69 GAA - I mean, come on, if only that was a lockout-shortened season, he'd be a God haha

I also never got the sense that he took offseason training all that seriously. So, he didn't really extend his athletic prime from that perspective.

Also, sometimes you can get a bit of paralysis by analysis...



Again, being sub-6-foot, playing deep, and trying to let your head do the first three-quarters of your save process does have some drawbacks...

I purposefully chose the overhead to start this sequence - one, because the seizure-inducing video quality is such that folks might not like it - but mainly because you can see that Kipper knows this is gonna be a late-breaking 2 on 1 here because his d-man is in "one too many beers mode". And if he commits too hard to this shot, he'll be yielding an empty net on the back side...

Unfortunately, the shooter is Teemu Selanne and Selanne rips it short side high. Win some most, lose some...

Kipper's playoff record isn't anything to shake a stick at...but adjusting for Calgary Flames history, he's got every playoff series win from 1990 to 2014, right?

Maybe that was more of a Calgary thing...? Kipper did take Finland to 1st in their pool in the 2004 World Cup of Hockey, and got the Finns all the way to the Final (losing 3-2). He also helped the Finns to a bronze in the 2010 Olympics (his game against the U.S. isn't worth recalling, ahem).

I don't think he was dealt the best hand team-wise, but he was a workhorse when he got the reigns...and every year that he started (except one), he got at least some Vezina consideration...and a lot of people are rightfully talking about Quick's run in 2012 (as they should, it's maybe the best ever), but let's not forget, the Flames were +10000 to win the Cup in '04, the second worst behind Florida (+11000) and he got them to within a goal...
 
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Michael Farkas

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Getting back to Fleury, I do see him as something of a complier. He's second all-time in wins. Great. But that's perhaps the goalie stat that I hate the most. I mean, I guess it can show that a guy is a workhorse, but he was certainly never a Brodeur there, or it can show that he was solid for a while. I can give him that. I just feel like we're still at a part of the list where I want something better than solid.

I think the most apt comparison I can make is Mike Gartner.
I've never really thought about goalies as compilers because I don't think the milestones really add up. I mean, what counts up on goalies? Just wins really...I guess shutouts, but I can't tell if anyone really values those or to what degree they value them. Also, I imagine that shutouts are a little more scoring environment dependent.

I won't say no to the general analogy, because there's certainly pieces there. But I will say that Fleury didn't really get a good deal while the gettin' was good...

His first few years in the league were a total [bleep]show...no full time goalie coach, a below average color commentator at head coach, a defense with Steve Poapst (who?) on it, etc.

Then Therrien came in and there was some structure for the first time in Fleury's career (and in Pens history going back to Constantine). You can see the Pens goalie numbers in '08. They didn't practice extra hard that year (well, they did, but...).

Then things get unlucky for Flower again because Bylsma created this ever-expanding, complicated offensive system that looked fun...but when it failed, it gave up like a 3 on 1 every time*. So Fleury faced some ridiculous chances against and often. Generally, speaking the team got too big for its britches offensively and that led to some goals going in...Fleury is not the most mentally strong goalie on the market, so it leaked into his play...he lost his job to Vokoun in 2013 in a big spot. All that...

Back to you...

There's no "bad team scorer" goalies really...it doesn't work like that. So it's hard to find an analogy...it's like: yes, he played for a long time, and he was generally on successful teams, but he also didn't benefit from that on a year-by-year basis, so his success at the end makes it look like he compiled his way here...but really, he might have been considered greater if he was just a cog in the wheel on, say, Ottawa coming out of the lockout and tapered off in his mid 30's instead of getting Vezina consideration then, but less before...*catches breath*

...or something. :laugh:
 

Michael Farkas

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defending his informed opinions as comprehensively and transparently as he does
Thanks for this. But that's the thing, like, is there a single goalie where I go "I love that guy" or "I hate that guy" where I don't back it up? If so, someone please tell me so that I can immediately correct that.

Have I said, "Tony Esposito is not a very good goaltender" - of course. But it's also backed by a ton of explanation, film breakdown, and - known history disrespector and general hooligan, Jacques Plante.

And again, like I've said the whole time...I'm not asking anyone to make my list the final list or even go along with my method...but the public freakouts are....I don't know, I guess that's how things are these days haha *shrug*

Anyway, the offer still stands...if folks need a safe space or whatever, I'll walk, and sleep like a baby (well...not at the same time)...
 
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Bear of Bad News

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As the parent of three small kids, “sleep like a baby” is total bullshit.

I like that you support your point of view because it’s a perspective that is uncommon.

I’m hopeful that you’ll (*) give others the room to do similarly and respect that they are coming from a different angle. Goaltending is all about angles.

(*) whoever’s reading this, feel free to insert “continue to” if you want to. Like a goalie, I’d rather focus on the next scoring chance than on the goal we collectively gave up earlier.
 

Bear of Bad News

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When my wife’s water broke nine weeks prematurely, and dad was solo parenting for five weeks, a battlefield compromise was made where the kids can sleep in the big bed with dad.

Fast forward, and the only kid not still in the parents’ bedroom is the one who sleeps in their crib. The others have fantastic rooms, I swear.
 

Bear of Bad News

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That’s a “love” of support, by the way.

We need some sort of admin around here with the power to add a “support” response.
 
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Michael Farkas

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I have a two year old and a pregnant wife. I've had like 5 genuinely good sleeps on the last 2.5 years.
You're pounding out all of these research dossiers with that ^ setup...? My goodness...what a champ.

My Kiprusoff post was delayed a day because someone got my smoothie order wrong earlier that afternoon...it's like, "how can you confuse pineapple and mango...?"; I just couldn't deal, man. Had to sit a few plays out...
 
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Professor What

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You're pounding out all of these research dossiers with that ^ setup...? My goodness...what a champ.

My Kiprusoff post was delayed a day because someone got my smoothie order wrong earlier that afternoon...it's like, "how can you confuse pineapple and mango...?"; I just couldn't deal, man. Had to sit a few plays out...
You're high on Kiprusoff though, right? I really like him a lot in this spot. I usually like guys that have more longevity, but I do think we've reached a point on the list where you can't have everything you want. I like that seven year stretch where he was the workhorse quite a bit. And heck, I'm still not convinced that he didn't actually win a Cup. I think 2004 will be argued for a long time.
 

rmartin65

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Round and round...
Like I said last round, I'm stubborn, and it sounds like you are too.
I don't know what's not to get. You said a disparaging remark about Fleury's 2017 playoffs. I said a good thing about it and then sourced with contemporary opinion. I cannot figure out what I'm supposed to do differently here...
I'm trying to find the consistency in the arguments. That's it. I like contemporary opinion. I don't like when it is used only when it suits your arguments. It is either something that we value (with, obviously, the need for context-), or it is something that we don't value. I questioned why Price didn't have better, you denigrated the value of awards voting. But then you keep bringing up awards (or almost awards). So which is it?


That's not what happened. We went this down road already and you apologized once for making this baseless assertion. Why you'd get flustered enough to say it again is beyond me.
I apologized for saying that you had said that players from a certain era shouldn't be admitted, not for... whatever you are accusing me of here. As far as I'm tracking, I didn't say that here.
It's just a conversation. I couldn't be more light-hearted if I tried...
As long as you are having fun, that's what matters.
But he was. And contemporary opinion thought that too. I think you barred me from citing stats, but up until the bad period he had a .931 save pct. too.
Did I bar you from using stats? Honest question. If I did that was wrong, and, obviously, unenforceable. I would like to see where I said that, though.

But even if you don't think so...and that's fine. It's fine not to think that...to lash out and drag Bobrovsky's run 7 years later and Tim Thomas from whenever
I think the thought chain is quite clear- you defend MAF's playoffs, citing Smythe support. I note that Bob and Thomas also had Smythe support and you aren't defending them. What is difficult to follow?
and the ol' gag about me only wanting goalies that played in the last 20 years thing into that...and just throwing it at the wall...that's where it's weird to me.
Where did I say you only wanted goalies who played in the last 20 years? Outside of your first post in this thread you've talked about Fleury, Bobrovskiy, and Kipper... all of whom played in the last 20 years. All I said was "keep ranking the goalies from the last 20 years because they have the best technique according to the 2024 understanding of the position". I don't see anything in there saying you "only wanting goalies that played in the last 20 years".

I mean, you wrote extensively on Lumley the last two rounds, and while I am not the expert you are, I'm tracking that he hasn't played in the last 20 years.
Oh...don't try to psycho-analyze me, you silly goose haha

"Ooh, you said 'points'! So that must mean..." Come on, what are we doing here? What's the next line, "I'm rubber and you're glue..." haha
How was I supposed to take that? These discussions, IMO, shouldn't be about winning/losing points, they should be trying to figure out who the greatest/top goaltenders throughout history have been. It's supposed to be a learning process. I think it is great when I learn something new about players- if that is losing points, cool.

Prior to this tangent, I don't think I had thought of our discussions on a win/lose basis.
Re: that last line. Remember, that still didn't happen. 💡
You are either misunderstanding or misconstruing what I wrote in this thread.

I have not said in this thread that you don't think players from a particular era shouldn't get votes here.
Before anyone else births a litter of kittens here,
Shots like this- that relly seemed aimed at either making others feel bad or trying to discredit other peoples' talking points- make it so incredibly frustrating for me to try to have a decent conversation with you. What was your goal here?

As the parent of three small kids, “sleep like a baby” is total bullshit.
Word
I have a two year old and a pregnant wife. I've had like 5 genuinely good sleeps on the last 2.5 years.
I also have 3 kids, age range of 7 to 1. For our oldest it got a little better sleep-wise around 5 or 6. Outside of the bad night here or there, he doesn't really wake us up in the middle of the night or too terribly early (of course, I am a morning person, so as long as it is 0430 or later I am going to be ok). Learning to read was the game changer; I'm convinced that whenever he wakes up he just reads for a bit until he's ready to either fall back asleep (if it is in the middle of the night) or to get ready for the day. So, once that happens, I think it'll get better.

The other two are a mess though, haha. The middle child got us up 3 times last night, and I'm sure tonight it will be youngest's turn.
 

Michael Farkas

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You're high on Kiprusoff though, right? I really like him a lot in this spot. I usually like guys that have more longevity, but I do think we've reached a point on the list where you can't have everything you want. I like that seven year stretch where he was the workhorse quite a bit. And heck, I'm still not convinced that he didn't actually win a Cup. I think 2004 will be argued for a long time.
Yeah, I am. I just had a post on this page about him. I mean, that Calgary roster...during that time...yuck...he did what he could. But come on...Daymond Langkow and Craig Conroy down the middle? Granted, they had a lot of guys that could cover for him, but Dion Phaneuf at #1D?

That's no fun. That's not very tenable, despite the winger depth and some quality defensive guys down the D depth.
 

Michael Farkas

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I agree...we are in the suburbs of Tuukka Rask territory for my liking. I have him tightly bunched with Fleury and Quick. But maybe next round...

Just quickly, on Barrasso if I may...

So Barrasso had some talent. He could move. He'd fight. But his process just wasn't well developed. So, it led to a lot of unearned goals. It also led to some fun pad stack saves.

Rather than go back to 1984, let's just go to 1999. That version of the game and goaltending is much more approachable at a flash. Penguins are up 2-0 (and dominating) in game 6 of the 1999 ECSF. The franchise is on the line...even Bob Cole said, "this could be the last NHL game in Pittsburgh"...Jagr won the Devils series on one leg before, as some may recall...

Watch this sequence...



He's in good position, his stance is fine, he's tracking well, he's aware of the threat near the post. All he has to do is be well anchored, and this is a fairly easy save. Instead...he throws himself on the floor.

Now, this goal gets wiped out because Kevyn Adams was in the crease, but that had nothing to do with the goal going in.

He finds time to give one up to Lonny Bohonos, then 20 seconds later...



Now, it's incomprehensible what PIT24 Ian Moran is doing here. Scientists will study this for decades and never decode it. But a really good goalie is gonna find a way to use this.

Instead, it's just a drop and a swim.

Even Harry Neale is like, "what is Ian Moran doing? But, too, what is Barrasso doing?"

It's not like he can't move. He can skate. He doesn't move well on his pads because that's not really something you can do that easily yet...and he grew up in the mid 80's, and you especially couldn't do it then.



Right? Like, that movement is very serviceable. It's all a lot of fine pieces, but when it comes to the actual execution, it sort of falls apart or at least it's a fight. And sort of a microcosm of his career as a Penguin...there's definitely some good, but when we needed one more save - it sort of fell apart...just enough.

If anything, it's kind of funny now that I'm thinking about it...Fleury declared that he was gonna blow it right away. Goals on the first shot (most ever). Getting yanked early in a series. All that.

Barrasso was the opposite...he blew it at the last possible minute. I guess vote which one you'd prefer on your ballot haha
 

Bear of Bad News

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Sep 27, 2005
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So Barrasso had some talent. He could move. He'd fight. But his process just wasn't well developed. So, it led to a lot of unearned goals. It also led to some fun pad stack saves.

The video I really want to see surface is his fight against Dale Hunter in the 1984 playoffs, because I remember it as something great (I also haven't actually seen it in forty years so I'm sure there's nostalgia going on).
 

Michael Farkas

Celebrate 68
Jun 28, 2006
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The video I really want to see surface is his fight against Dale Hunter in the 1984 playoffs, because I remember it as something great (I also haven't actually seen it in forty years so I'm sure there's nostalgia going on).
Do you honestly think that you'd trick me into thinking an 18 year old Tom Barrasso fought Dale Hunter in a playoff game...?

Give me a little more credit than that.

The 7 PIMs from that playoff is likely a typo...

(Good Lord...I need to see this sequence of events)
 
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Bear of Bad News

"The Worst Guy on the Site" - user feedback
Sep 27, 2005
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I just wish there was video. I think it was on some Sportschannel USA thing.

Here we go. I'm senile but not for goalie fights, apparently.

1732760219940.png


(Buffalo News, April 6, 1984 recapping the game the night prior.)
 
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