HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 7

[Dr John Carlson]

Procedure

• In this vote, you will be presented with 14 players based on their ranking in the Round 1 aggregate list
• Players will be listed in alphabetical order to avoid creating bias
• You will submit ten names in a ranked order, #1 through #10, without ties via PM to both @Dr John Carlson and @Professor What. That means four names out of these fourteen will be left unranked on your ballot.
• Use the same private message thread every week rather than starting a new PM
• Results of this vote will be posted after each voting cycle, but the individual ballots themselves will remain secret until the completion of this project
• The top 5 players will be added to the final list (unless a very large break exists at the spot between 4&5 (or 3&4!), or the break between 5&6 is minimal)
• Lists of players eligible for voting will grow as the project continues
• Voting threads will continue until we have added 60 names to the list, for a total of 12 voting threads

Eligible Voters

• Ballots from voters who have submitted an approved Round 1 ranking of 80 goaltenders (which was used to shape the aggregate list) will have their votes tabulated in the final ranking
• These voters are: @nabby12, @overpass, @frisco, @Professor What, @DN28, @jigglysquishy, @tony d, @rmartin65, @Vilica, @bobholly39, @The Pale King, @blogofmike, @Dr John Carlson, @MXD, @Michael Farkas, @ContrarianGoaltender, @VanIslander, @seventieslord, @Weztex

Guidelines

• Respect each other. No horseplay or sophistry!
• Please refrain from excessive use of the 'laughing' reaction to indicate disagreement
• Stay on topic and don't get caught up in talking about non-eligible players
• Participate, but retain an open mind throughout the discussion
• Do not speculate who cast any particular ballot. Do not make judgments about the mindset of whoever cast that particular ballot. All individual ballots will be revealed at the end of the project
• Anybody may participate in the discussion, whether they submitted a list or not

House Rules

• Any attempts to derail a discussion thread with disrespect to old-time hockey will be met with frontier justice
• Take a drink when someone mentions the number of hockey registrations in a given era
• Finish your drink when someone mentions that wins are a team stat

The actual voting period will open up on Friday, November 29th at midnight and continue through Sunday, December 1st at 11:59 PM Eastern time. I will release the results of the vote the morning of Monday, December 2nd, at which point the next voting thread will begin.


Vote 7 Candidates

• Tom Barrasso
• Sergei Bobrovsky
• Alec Connell
• Marc-Andre Fleury
• Ed Giacomin
• Hap Holmes
• Curtis Joseph
• Miikka Kiprusoff
• Percy LeSueur
• Chuck Rayner
• Jonathan Quick
• Rogie Vachon
• John Vanbiesbrouck
• Gump Worsley

Click to read more...

 

[Dennis Bonvie]

Where there's a Giacomin there should be a Cheevers.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Vezina Shares

Stolen from @TheDevilMadeMe 's methodology and updated to 2024

There are 22 goalies with a 1.0 share or higher

	Goalie	Times	Share
1	Martin Brodeur	15	5.40
2	Dominik Hasek	11	4.76
3	Patrick Roy	17	4.63
4	Connor Hellebucyk	5	2.63
5	Ed Belfour	11	2.51
6	Pekka Rinne	5	2.12
7	Andrei Vasilevsky	6	2.05
8	Tom Barrasso	7	1.98
9	Sergei Bobrovsky	6	1.97
10	Henrik Lundqvist	10	1.93
11	Grant Fuhr	8	1.84
12	Braden Holtby	3	1.68
13	Roberto Luongo	9	1.66
14	Tim Thomas	3	1.55
15	John Vanbiesbrouck	9	1.52
16	Tuukka Rask	5	1.50
17	Miikka Kiprusoff	7	1.44
18	Carey Price	7	1.40
19	Evgeni Nabokov	6	1.23
20	Curtis Joseph	8	1.02
21	Pete Peeters	3	1.02
22	Igor Shesterkin	3	1.02

Bolded are eligible. Italicized are inducted

Fleury is at 0.86, Quick at 0.75.

Times top 3
Barrasso - 5 (1,2,2,2,3)
Bobrovsky - 3 (1,1,3)
Kiprusoff - 3 (1,2,3)
Joseph - 3 (2,3,3)
Vanbiesbrouck - 2 (1,2)
Quick - 2 (2,3)
Fleury 1 - (1)

All-Star Teams (1945 onwards)

Player	First	Second	Third	Total	Weighted Total
Ed Giacomin	1​	3​	0​	4​	14​
Tom Barrasso	1​	2​	1​	4​	12​
Sergei Bobrovsky	2​	0​	1​	3​	11​
Harry Lumley	2​	0​	0​	2​	10​
Chuck Rayner	0​	3​	0​	3​	9​
Gump Worsley	1​	1​	0​	2​	8​
John Vanbiesbrouck	1​	1​	0​	2​	8​
Rogatien Vachon	0​	2​	0​	2​	6​
Miikka Kiprusoff	1​	0​	0​	1​	5​
Jonathan Quick	0​	1​	1​	2​	4​
Marc-Andre Fleury	0​	1​	0​	1​	3​
Curtis Joseph	0​	0​	0​	0​	0​

You can see a bit of a divide between AS teams and Vezina voting. Joseph and Kiprusoff combined for 6 Vezina top-3 finishes, but combined for only top-3 AS finish.

 

[Professor What]

First thought: not ready for any of the new guys top four. Also still not ready for Quick, but he probably goes in before I'm ready for him anyway.

 

[MXD]

Wow, two of these new guys were in my ... sixties?

 

[Michael Farkas]

Sergei Bobrovsky - I mean, if the playoffs aren't a huge, huge deal to you, then pair him as close as you can to Esposito. He's a weird one. He's not as technically poor as Espo, but he's a goalie who really wears his mental weakness as a scarlet letter. High highs, very low lows.

Alec Connell - I threw him on as the very last name on my list because he's the all time leader in GAA or whatever. He's more trivia question than substance from everything I've read. He was the player that I did a deep dive on in the 2012 project, and came up surprisingly empty-handed in terms of praise. I can't imagine what he's doing here right now.

Marc-Andre Fleury - Certainly a better bet than Barrasso. Fleury had his high highs and low lows period. Late career, he settled in to being a more reliable, less reflexive goalie and he wore that well. He didn't play for defensive teams very much during his long career...but as a player that developed under the old rules (where he played for basically an expansion team to start, with no full-time goalie coach at 18 years old), then made an impact in the new world, was dealt some tough hands during DPE 2.0 (and then vengefully dealt those bad hands back to his own team at times), and then in the new and improved new-nuNHL he became a regular in the Vezina conversation...he's an interesting one. Definitely someone I'd have over Barrasso and Bobrovsky for that matter. But he'll be a tough one to place in general...happy to see him available though.

Eddie Giacomin - I had a hunch that the film was going to be kind to him and that I'd pump his tires as a result...wrong. He's basically Esposito and Vachon. He tried to two pad stack and slide basically every shot, so it's fun to watch...but like we saw with Espo, the guys that throw themselves all over the floor generally don't win, and they generally don't have later career success. Well, here ya go again...I had Giacomin and Esposito back to back on my prelim list...deep in the 60's.

 

[jigglysquishy]

The HHOF officially recognizes 9 dynasties.

50s Habs - Plante (3rd)
50s Red Wings - Sawchuk (4th) and Lumley (29th)
70s Habs - Dryden (8th)
60s Leafs - Bower (16th) and Sawchuk (4th)
20s Sens - Benedict (18th)
40s Leafs - Broda (20th)
80s Islanders - Smith (27th)
80s Oilers - Fuhr (31st)

The only one left is the 60s Habs (Vachon and Worsley).

After the top 4 (where the teams are incredibly stacked AND have 10/10 goaltending), it's pretty much a list of how much a team needed their goalies to be elite to win. Smith was only needed to be great on the last two, Fuhr really only needed to be great in 1987.

For the 60s Habs, they're the only dynasty where goaltending is a noted weakness.

Just an interesting look at it.

 

[MXD]

The HHOF officially recognizes 9 dynasties.

50s Habs - Plante (3rd)
50s Red Wings - Sawchuk (4th) and Lumley (29th)
70s Habs - Dryden (8th)
60s Leafs - Bower (16th) and Sawchuk (4th)
20s Sens - Benedict (18th)
40s Leafs - Broda (20th)
80s Islanders - Smith (27th)
80s Oilers - Fuhr (31st)

The only one left is the 60s Habs (Vachon and Worsley).

After the top 4 (where the teams are incredibly stacked AND have 10/10 goaltending), it's pretty much a list of how much a team needed their goalies to be elite to win. Smith was only needed to be great on the last two, Fuhr really only needed to be great in 1987.

For the 60s Habs, they're the only dynasty where goaltending is a noted weakness.

Just an interesting look at it.

Not the first year.

I'm giving up.

 

[jigglysquishy]

Alec Connell in the Playoffs

1926 Playoffs
Senators and Maroons tie 1-1 in a two-game total goal series

The Morning Leader · ‎Mar 26, 1926

Long Shot Beats Connell

The face-off had hardly occurred when Broadbent lifted one from the blue line. Connell saw the puck too late...

Connell was having plenty to do as the puck whistled around his head and chest.

Montreal was doing most of the attacking, but the Ottawa defence was impregnable.

Maroons win 1-0 to win series 2-1

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Mar 29, 1926

Connel made a miraculous save when the Montreal star [Nels Stewart] and the league's most useful player seemed to have a goal tagged.

Broadbent, who has never been seen to better advantage, twice broke through on Connell, only to have smart goaling and dash of ill-luck rub him of the honor of putting the Maroons in a safe lead.

1927 Playoffs
Ottawa beats the Canadiens 4-0 in a two-game total goal series

No relevant comments, but it's interesting that the game is categorized as Nighbor's pokecheck against Morenz' speed.


Sens and Habs tie 1-1. Sens win series 5-1

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 5, 1927

Joliat returned and stole the puck from Clancy near the Ottawa goal. Connell saved a dangerous situation for Ottawa with a brilliant stop.

Nighbor's poke-check wrecked half a done Canadien thrusts led by Mroenz and and Mantha. He turned them into attacks on the Canadien goal, but had little support from his wings.

Brilliant saves by Connell and hefty, if sometimes illegal, trippy by the Ottawa rearguard spoiled their chances.

1927 Finals
Senators and Bruins tie 0-0 in OT
Sens 0 Bruins 0

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 8, 1927

Oliver broke through the Senatorial defence. He shot too soon, however, and Connell was able to block the drive.

The Bruins were having the edge again and Connell had to jump to save two shots in quick succession from the sticks of Shore and Fredrickson.

Connell having to handle about five to every three shots stopped by Winkler.

Senators win 3-1
Sens 1 Bruins 0

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Apr 11, 1927

The Senators seemed rather content with their two-goal advantage and a systematized defence backed by some brilliant net work by Connell managed to keep the Bruins from entering the summary.

Senators and Bruins tie 1-1 in OT
Sens 1 Bruins 0

No relevant comments


Senators win 3-1
Sens 2 Bruins 0

Ottawa Citizen · ‎Apr 14, 1927

Connell was down in his net to save off Galbraith in a dangerous rush with Frederickson.

Connell made a brilliant save off Oliver.

There is also a picture section where Connell is listed as "Brilliant Goalie"

Overall, a good playoff run. Nighbor getting immense praise despite being old. Boucher and Clancy get praise. Connell might get the next most praise though.


1928 Playoffs
Maroons beat Sens 1-0 in a two-game total goal series

No relevant comments

Maroons beat Sens 2-1 to win series 3-1

No relevant comments

Overall, he's not mentioned in the series except when he's scored on.


1930 Playoffs
Rangers and Sens tie 1-1 in a two-game total goal series

Ottawa Citizen · ‎Mar 21, 1930

Rangers pelted long pucks at Connell all night. They rarely worked in close enough for real scoring opportunities.

Rangers win 5-2 to win series 6-3

No relevant comments


1935 Playoffs
Maroons and Black Hawks tie 0-0 in a two-game total goal series

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Mar 25, 1935

Connell Foils Morenz

The climax of this pulsating drama came with less than 10 minutes to go when Howie Morenz, taking Mush March's pass from the side, wung through the Maroon defence and had a clear road in on Connell. For a few agonizing moments for the vast throng, it seemed that Morenz could not miss the chance. Moving in deliberately, he tried to fake Connell into a false move. But the Fireman played the Hawk centre perfectly, he never budged until Howe was almost in the crease and then with one daring dive, he slashed the puck from Morenz's stick and spoiled the play. Connell lost his weapon as it went hurling into the corner of the rink.

Morenz Is Brilliant
Morenz was the Stratford flash of old, stealing like a meteor down the ice and reminiscent of his most brilliant form.

On Maroons' side, apart from Connell, Baldy Northcott and Lionel Conacher were standouts.

Maroons win 1-0 to win series 1-0

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Mar 27, 1935

Connell Shines In Nets
It would be hard to pick a star on the Maroon team, though Northcott grabbed the spotlight with his timely goal. Cy Wentworth and Connell were probably the most valuable men on the ice.

Maroons beat Rangers 2-1 in a two-game total goal series

The Montreal Gazette · ‎Mar 29, 1935

For a good deal of the time, Alex Connell was merely a spectator to the struggle. Compared to the Chicago series, the Ottawa Fireman had a holiday tonight.

Maroons tie 3-3 to win series 5-4
Shots: Maroons 45 Rangers 29

The Border Cities Star · ‎Apr 1, 1935

Maroons have scored only six goals so far in four play-off games, but they have been so strong defensively that only four goals have gone past Alex Connell.

The Leader-Post · ‎Apr 1, 1935

The Montreal defence gave Alex Connell great support.

Finals
Maroons beat Leafs 3-2 in OT in a best of three series
Shots: Maroons 39 Leafs 21

The Calgary Daily Herald · ‎Apr 5, 1935

Chums since boyhood days in Ottawa, Alex Connell of Maroons and King Clancy shook hands warmly at the finish. It was a good night for them both. Clancy scored a goal and Connell outpointed the Leafs.

Maroons beat Leafs 3-1. Wikipedia erroneously lists it as a 3-2 victory.
Shots: Maroons 19 Leafs 43

The Leader-Post · ‎Apr 8, 1935

Connell Balks Leafs As His Mates Score Three Timely Goals

Goalie Brilliant in Halting Toronto Rushes

Connel Busy
Connell, veteran of 13 big-league seasons, blocked 21 shots in a wild and one-sided first period.

Maroons win 4-1 to win Cup
Shots: Maroons 29 Leafs 19

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎Apr 10, 1935

Toronto fought doggedly but could not solve the sturdy Maroon defence. When they did break through, Alex Connell was impregnable.

Alex Connell made a sensational falling stop as "Red" Metz drove the puck at him from point-blank range.

Overall, 1935 is his best playoff run and the 1935 Finals is his best single series. He's the most praised player on the Cup winning team and would have been the Conn Smythe winner.


For most of the Ottawa years, he doesn't get much praise. He's never bad, but he tops out at 3rd wheel (usually 4th wheel). But that 1935 run is tremendous and should factor in heavily whenever he gets inducted. He gets strong defense (much like in Ottawa), but unlike Ottawa he gets the bulk of the back end praise.

 

[Professor What]

I'm not saying there's nothing to Connell, but I don't see the case for him yet. I think he's largely a product of his team and times, and I get the feeling of him being a trivia question answer. I can't lie though, I like the shutouts. I know that the team plays a big role in that, but I still think there's something to be said for stopping every shot you face. And Connell did that a lot.

Bobrovsky would be better served if he were two guys, good Bob and bad Bob. Good Bob would fare really well on this list. He'd already be on, I'm quite sure. But if there's anything consistent about Bobrovsky, it's his inconsistency. You never really know what you're going to get. May be worth the risk if you're a GM because when he's on, he's on, but I just don't see it yet.

On the other hand, I've always felt that Fleury was more consistent than most, but I'm not super impressed with the level he offers. He's always been good enough, but he's also had some good spots to be in. Those Penguins teams were stacked, no two ways about it. He might have been the #3 guy on the team in 09, but that's his peak in Pittsburgh. And then he lost the job to Matt Murray of all people before landing in the best expansion situation in sports history in Vegas. I don't know. I don't think he's bad, but I'm not convinced he's that good either.

With Giacomin, there's a five year stretch at the beginning of his career that I really like, but after that, um, eww. Maybe he's something like Bobrovsky, except that his good years are bunched, as are his bad years. It's like he had a hot start and then fell off the cliff. I'm really not sure how to think about that.

I think we're in another round where we ideally induct four because of the way things have played out previously, and I don't personally see the case for any of these guys being top four.