HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 4

Michael Farkas

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Flat Walsh talk here...
Screenshot-2024-10-30-154901.png


Another article says - after Worters finished 2nd for the Hart the previous year - that "The Americans had better keep Flat Walsh at any cost."

...

"...may have been only a sub goalie for the Maroons, but that was because the Montrealers didn't know how well Flat can play. He made some sweet saves last night, and when he wasn't engaged actively in warding off shots he was chattering away much like wining ball players do behind their pitchers."

"The Maroons have a good goalie. They do not need Flat right now. Having him carried on the Americans' salary list means quite a saving. But you can bet the Maroons will keep a string on him unless the Americans talk big money. Twenty thousand was the last heard price asked by the Maroons. It's steep. But Walsh appears worth it."
 
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jigglysquishy

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Jun 20, 2011
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Johnny Bower in Stanley Cup games

1959 Finals
Montreal beats Toronto 5-3
Shots: Leafs 24 Habs 31
Leafs 0 Habs 1

Bower barely mentioned, but I did find this note
Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 10, 1959
Reay cites Detroit, who were weak on defence, as a fine example. For the first half of the season, Terry Sawchuk was brilliant behind an ordinary defence. But he couldn't stand the continual pounding and broke during he last half of the schedule. Several times this year, after Johnny Bower had experienced a bad night, Ed Chadwick was rushed in for the next game. The change often worked.


Montreal beats Toronto 3-1
Shots: Leafs 29 Habs 41
Leafs 0 Habs 2

The Leader-Post · ‎April 13, 1959
It was a rugged, bitterly fought game, with standout work by goalies Johnny Bower of the Leafs and Jacques Plante of Montreal. Bower in particular came up with some big saves in the first two periods.
Coach Toe Blake, whose team now holds a 2-0 lead in the best-of-seven Stanley Cup final, called it a "very rough" game and said Bower played an outstanding game in the Toronto nets.


Toronto beats Montreal 3-2 in OT
Shots: Leafs 35 Habs 31
Leafs 1 Habs 2

The Windsor Daily Star · ‎April 15, 1959
Canadiens went into overtime bent on getting things cleaned up in a hurry. But Bower handled them. Defenceman Doug Harvey rushed the length of the rink, but his shot was turned aside. Bonin got in close. Bower took his hard drive on the chest.


Montreal wins 3-2
Shots: Leafs 28 Habs 29
Leafs 1 Habs 3

The Calgary Herald · ‎April 17, 1959
In the first period Bower stopped at least three bullet-like drives by the 28-year-old right winger [Geoffrion]
Both goaltenders were sensational.


Montreal wins 5-3
Shots: Leafs 33 Habs 37 via NHL.com, Leafs 42 Habs 36 via Star Phoenix
Leafs 1 Habs 4
Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 20, 1959
Goaltending throughout the series was a big factor, with superb performances by both Plante and Bower. If there was any doubt about it, the balance swung sharply in Plante's favour in Saturday's game.
It was unfortunate that Bower, so often the king-in of the Leaf defence, looked weak on two of the Montreal goals. Both shots were fired by the burly Boom Boom Geoffrion.


Lots is made of Geoffrion having the best shot in the world (despite suffering from a stomach bug) . Bower and Plante get lots of praise. A few instances where Bower is scored on via rebound.


1960 Finals
Canadiens beat Leafs 4-2. Big praise to Harvey and Plante.
Shots: Leafs 29 Habs 42
Leafs 0 Habs 1

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 8, 1960
Leafs Find Plante Tough
Time and again they barged in on goalie Johnny Bower and missed at least half a dozen other big opportunities.
The Windsor Star · ‎April 8, 1960
The Leafs did not play badly in a general sense, in fact looked as good as in any of the games against Detroit in the semi-final. Olmstead, Frank Mahovlich, Dick Duff, Red Kelly and Larry Regan were moving well. Bower had better nights.
Plante didn't have nearly as much work as Bower, but he made no mistake and controlled traffic with sharp efficiency.


Montreal wins 2-1
Shots: Habs 36 Leafs 27
Leafs 0 Habs 2

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 11, 1960
Both Plante and Bower played superbly. Bower saving his team in the third period with particularly brilliant stops on Henri Richard and Phil Goyette.
Imlach though Bower had turned in a great game. "You couldn't find any fault with Johnny tonight. If we can't score more than one goal for him, you can't expect him to shut them out to win."


Montreal wins 5-2
Shots: Habs 31 Leafs 34
Leafs 0 Habs 3

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 13, 1960
Leafs started out as if they would skate the Canadiens right off the ice, but the defending champions soon settled down and the game developed into a fast-skating wide-open affair with goal-keepers Jacques Plante in the Canadien nets and Johnny Bower in the Toronto goal making brilliant saves
"I got Dickie Moore's rebound and let go a backhander over Bower" [from Rocket Richard
The Windsor Star · ‎April 13, 1960
Imlach was "very disappointed" in his team's play. He said their mistakes were inexcusable. "We gave them three goals, he said. I'm not going to blame Bower."
"Plante played a marvelous game," the Leaf coach said. "I don't know how he managed to stop some of those shots. A couple of times he couldn't even see the puck and even then he was stopping them."


Montreal wins 4-0
Shots: Habs 32 Leafs 30
Leafs 0 Habs 4

The Montreal Gazette · ‎April 15, 1960
Beliveau opened the scoring...with a screened drive from the blueline that whizzed through a maze of skates and gave Bower no chance.
Beliveau just about had another one when he sailed in on Bower from the right and let go a short blast that the Leaf goalie smothered in his pads.
Leafs managed to weather the penalty string, thanks to some neat work by Bower.
Plante was sensational stopping Olmstead.


It seems like a great series. Plante and Bower are praised repeatedly, but Montreal thoroughly outplayed Toronto.


1962 Finals
Leafs win 4-1
Shots: Leafs 37 Blackhawks 26
Leafs 1 Blackhawks 0

The Leader-Post · ‎April 11, 1962
Bobby Hull put Chicago ahead 1-0 before many of the 13,069 fans at Maple Leaf Gardens had settled down. From there in, goalie Johnny Bower in the Leaf net played flawlessly behind a rock solid defence and backchecking forards.


Toronto wins 3-2
Shots: Leafs 31 Blackhawks 29
Leafs 2 Blackhawks 0

No relevant comments. Everything is about a controversial non-goal from Mikita onto Bower


Blackhawks win 3-0. Last goal was an empty-netter
Shots: Leafs 19 Blackhawks 36
Leafs 2 Blackhawks 1

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 16, 1962
The Toronto netminder, harassed most of the 60 minutes by the Hawks, finished with 33 saves against only 19 for Hall.


Blackhawks win 4-1
Shots: Leafs 31 Blackhawks 33
Leafs 2 Blackhawks 2
Bower leaves gave in the first period when he "pulled a leg muscle after doing the splits to save on an ankle-high blistering from by Bobby Hull


Leafs win 8-4
Bower does not play
Leafs 3 Blackhawks 2

Leafs win 2-1
Bower does not play
Leafs 4 Blackhawks 2


When he played he was praised, but it's a hard look when backup Don Simmons replaces you and wins two games.


1963 Finals
Leafs win 4-2
Shots: Leafs 27 Red Wings 32
Leafs 1 Red Wings 0

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 10, 1963
Duff, taking advantage of some uncertain netminding by Detroit's Terry Sawchuk, gave Leafs an early spurt.
Bower had his rough moments, too, particularly In the second period when the Wings took pot shots from all angles and ended up with 14 drives at him.

Leafs win 4-2
Shots: Leafs 37 Red Wings 27
Leafs 2 Red Wings 0

No relevant comments. Gordie Howe gets praise, but the rest of the Red Wings played poorly.


Red Wings win 3-2
Shots: Leafs 32 Red Wings 31
Leafs 2 Red Wings 1

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 15, 1963
Bower had to make 28 saves and Sawchuk 30, but the antics of neither was startling enough to amaze the crowd.

The Windsor Star · ‎April 15, 1963
"Punch" Imlach summed up his club's performance with "We just didn't knock enough of them down. Maybe we were overconfident we could win in straight games. Tonight we had no drive, our skating and checking was bad and we kept giving the puck away. I couldn't fault out goaltender (Bower) but the rest of the club was bad. Defence was loose and we just couldn't command the play."


Toronto beats Detroit 4-2
Shots: Leafs 33 Red Wings 40
Leafs 3 Red Wings 1

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 17, 1963
Toronto goaltender Johnny Bower had his busiest night of the series, and the play who gave him the most trouble was his summertime fishing companion, Howe. The Detroit right winger, who more often than not is one of the best players on the ice, had an assist besides his own marker. Bower, at an official 38 the oldest player in the league, made 38 saves. His youthful performance did nothing to encourage never-ending rumors he is more than 40.
The Windsor Star · ‎April 17, 1963
They had the Leafs in considerable trouble in the first two periods, but couldn't find the let and Johnny Bower didn't them. Bower shut out Detroit over the final 37 minutes, more than atoning for letting Gord Howe beat him at the start of the game with a long shot.
Imlach said he would probably have yanked Bower in favour of Don Simmons had Johnny exhibited additional unsteadiness.


Toronto wins 3-1
Shots: Leafs 27 Red Wings 27
Leafs 4 Red Wings 1

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 19, 1963
After the presentation, Bower and Howe, with arms draped around each other, exchanged congratulations. Said Bower: "It was a close game and could have gone either way." And Howe retorted: "It was your fault it didn't go our way."
The tension of this game was noticeable from the start, especially when Wings opened with a burst of shots around Bower and the Leafs went nearly four minutes without getting a direct drive at Sawchuk.
Johnny Bower: the veteran netminder came up with the big saves for Toronto.

1964 Finals
Toronto wins 3-2
Shots: Leafs 32 Red Wings 32
Leafs 1 Red Wings 0

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 13, 1964
Bower turned aside 30 shots, including a couple of dangerous ones by Howe and Barkley In the late stages. The Leafs played with defencemen Carl Brewer, who suffered badly bruised ribs int eh last game of the Montreal semi-final.

Red Wings win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Leafs 29 Red Wings 49
Leafs 1 Red Wings 1


Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 15, 1964
Veteran goalkeeper Johnny Bower was hopping all over the place to stop 38 Detroit shots in the first 60 minutes and another seven in overtime. Wings forechecked and backchecked Leafs almost to frustration and their forward lines with Ullman, Howe, Jeffrey, and Smith leading the way, poured in on Bower. But the venerable goalkeeper managed to stick out legs and arms to smother labelled shots.


Red Wings win 4-3
Shots: Leafs 34 Red Wings 34
Leafs 1 Red Wings 2

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 15, 1964
Bower had just made a save on Howe and was trying to regain his position when Delvecchio flipped in his third goal of the playoff series.
Bower made cat-like saves on UIlman, Howe, and MacGregor.


Leafs win 4-2
Shots: Leafs 35 Red Wings 27
Leafs 2 Red Wings 2

The Windsor Star · ‎April 20, 1964
Terry Sawchuk foiled 31 thrusts and had many more of the deadly variety than Johnny Bower in the Leafian citadel who registered 25 saves.

Red Wings win 2-1
Shots: Leafs 34 Red Wings 34
Leafs 2 Red Wings 3

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 22, 1964
The Detroit club...got outstanding goaltending from Sawchuk, who stopped 33 shots - including several breakaways in an exceptionally wide-open game.
Leafs goaltender Johnny Bower, who stopped 32 shots, made big saves on Joyal, rookie Paul Henderson and veteran defenceman Marcel Provonost.
Howe fired a hard screened shot that Bower stopped, but the puck rolled from his pad as he dropped to the ice and Howe strode in to pike it into the net.


Leafs win 4-3 in OT
Shots: Leafs 36 Red Wings 41
Leafs 3 Red Wings 3

The Leader-Post · ‎April 24, 1964
Most of the goals Thursday were from close in and neither Sawchuk nor Toronto's Johnny Bower could be blamed.
The Windsor Star · ‎April 24, 1964
In the scoreless third stanza, Wings outshot Toronto 16-8, but couldn't "buy a goal" as their deflects went which-way and Bower had nothing to give away for free.

Leafs win 4-0
Shots: Leafs 37 Red Wings 33
Leafs 4 Red Wings 3

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 27, 1964
The Wings battled gamely in an effort to tie, but couldn't beat 39-year-old Johnny Bower in the Toronto nets.
The Wings lacked Howe's leadership int he climatic game as the big right winger, obviously bone-tired from playing close to 40 minutes in each of the 13 previous playoff games, could muster only a half-dozen dangerous rushes.
Wings' young players, notably Ed Joyal, Paul Henderson and Andre Pronovost, tried to take up the slack but they were no match for the fire-up Leafs or for Bower, who played one of his steadiest games of the playoffs.
Bower handled 33 shots in posting the shutout. Many were from long range, but he made some excellent saves, including two each on Howe and Norman Ullman.
Detroit goalkeeper Terry Sawchuk also stopped 33 shots, most of them more difficult than the ones that tested Bower.

Bower is the most highly praised player on either side throughout the 7 game series, though Howe and Sawchuk get lots too.


1967 Finals
Montreal wins 6-2
Shots: Leafs 26 Habs 44
Leafs 0 Habs 1
Sawchuk started the game, but let in 5 goals on 35 shots. Bower replaced him in the third and saved 8 of 9.


Toronto wins 3-0
Shots: Leafs 43 Habs 31
Leafs 1 Habs 1
Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 24, 1967
Veteran Johnny Bower, 42, was the hero of the game. Cool and collected throughout, despite being hit in the face several times with sticks, Bower stopped as many as three shots in succession on a number of occasions.
It was the fifth playoff shutout for Bower, who has played in 10 Stanley Cup seasons.
John Bower, goalie with the Toronto Maple Leafs and one of the last holdouts against wearing a mask during NHL games, is relenting. After 22 professional seasons and countless stitches taken in his head and face, Bower, 43, conceded Saturday he would probably be wearing a mask next season.


Toronto wins 3-2 in double OT
Shots: Leafs 54 Habs 63
Leafs 2 Habs 1

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎April 26, 1967
Goaltender Johnny Bower was a standout for the Leafs, who outlasted the tiring Canadiens.
Defenceman Tim Horton of Toronto went off for interference… But Johnny Bower of Toronto kept them at bay, making saves on two good slapshots from JC Tremblay.
The Montreal Gazette · ‎April 26, 1967
It had been the other way around the first extra period when Bower kept robbing the Canadiens time after time. Gilles Tremblay, the hard luck winger, just couldn’t believe Bower had stopped him after he cruised in to try for Larose’s rebound. “I had him beat even though I was in close as Bower came out of the net,” said Tremblay. “ I lifted the puck and it barely touched Bower’s shoulder before taking a crazy bounce.”


Montreal wins 6-2
Shots: Leafs 37 Habs 40
Leafs 2 Habs 2

The Windsor Star · ‎April 28, 1967
Bower pulled a muscle in his thigh during the warmup Thursday night with the result that Terry Sawchuk, cold and inactive since the opening game of the Stanley Cup Finals , replaced him and got walloped by Montreal 6-2.
Sawchuk had a bad game, and admitted it, but so did several others of the Toronto team. Bower may be ready to play the fifth game at Montreal Saturday afternoon, but it’s guesswork at this stage.


Toronto wins 4-1
Shots: Leafs 29 Habs 38
Leafs 3 Habs 2
Sawchuk played over Bower and gets lots of praise

Saskatoon Star-Phoenix · ‎May 1, 1967
A strong performance from the sometimes-maligned Terry Sawchuk and plenty of hustle and muscle from forwards and defencemen alike earned Toronto a decision.


Toronto wins 3-1
Shots: Leafs 35 Habs 41
Leafs 4 Habs 2
Sawchuk keeps the net and again has another strong performance.


Hard to read this one. When Bower plays he has a very strong series including some overtime heroics. When Sawchuk comes back in for games 5 and 6 he plays tremendously, stopping 75 of 77 shots (a 0.975!). Outside game 1 and 4 lots of praise is given to both goalies. Vachon gets praise too.



Overall, I came away incredibly impressed with Bower. He gets heaps up praise in 1959, 1960, 1963, and 1964. Across those four series he's easily the most praised Leaf. He faced Plante-Plante-Sawchuk-Sawchuk across those four series and all three goalies get enormous praise. 1967 is a different story, as Sawchuk is the lead goalie and Bower saves in relief.

Bower was prone to being scored on rebounds. It comes up time and time again.

I have him and Vasilevskiy 1 and 2 this round.
 

MXD

Partying Hard
Oct 27, 2005
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Flat Walsh talk here...
Screenshot-2024-10-30-154901.png


Another article says - after Worters finished 2nd for the Hart the previous year - that "The Americans had better keep Flat Walsh at any cost."

...

"...may have been only a sub goalie for the Maroons, but that was because the Montrealers didn't know how well Flat can play. He made some sweet saves last night, and when he wasn't engaged actively in warding off shots he was chattering away much like wining ball players do behind their pitchers."

"The Maroons have a good goalie. They do not need Flat right now. Having him carried on the Americans' salary list means quite a saving. But you can bet the Maroons will keep a string on him unless the Americans talk big money. Twenty thousand was the last heard price asked by the Maroons. It's steep. But Walsh appears worth it."
Andrew Hammond.
 
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jigglysquishy

Registered User
Jun 20, 2011
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Regina, Saskatchewan
I don't like the idea of guys getting inducted without getting a real look at. We did it with Belfour. The project takes six months but in some cases still feels rushed. I hope we can take a real look at both Parent and Smith before one gets in.

They're up for second best NHL goalie born between 1931 and 1965. It's a very wide range that represents prime years of roughly 1965-1988. Tony O and Holocek are going to be the only other guys from this wide age range up in the next 3-4 rounds.

I want to dig into the playoffs more for them before I vote.
 
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Professor What

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Sep 16, 2020
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I don't like the idea of guys getting inducted without getting a real look at. We did it with Belfour. The project takes six months but in some cases still feels rushed. I hope we can take a real look at both Parent and Smith before one gets in.

They're up for second best NHL goalie born between 1931 and 1965. It's a very wide range that represents prime years of roughly 1965-1988. Tony O and Holocek are going to be the only other guys from this wide age range up in the next 3-4 rounds.

I want to dig into the playoffs more for them before I vote.
I think playoffs are a big argument for both Smith and Parent. Smith wasn't ever really the clear #1 in the regular season, but the dynasty adds something to his legacy as he was definitely the go-to guy in the playoffs. And Parent, well, that two year peak continued in the playoffs. I think a lot of my decision on where to rank the two of them is going to be how I feel about they playoffs at the end of this week.
 

Michael Farkas

Celebrate 68
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Billy Smith talks about his usage (and gives me a nod about the league starting to come back into form finally in the mid 80's after being poor for quite a bit)...

THN Jan 11 1985 said:
THN: The “expert” opinion was that you simply were not going to be traded because you have saved the team in so many playoffs and you might do it again this year.

SMITH: I feel that way, too. If I hadn’t had a good string of series last spring then there would have been a possibility that I would have been traded. Hey, you go year by year. But I think last year my performances were more or less like the first Cup year (1980). Because of that I really didn’t feel they were going to trade me.

THN: What about last year’s loss to the Oilers in the final?

SMITH: We played well until two-and-a-half periods had gone by in the third game (with the series tied at one apiece). That’s when I got hurt but nobody really knew about it until the end of the series. I hit my wrist behind the net. After I got hurt it was almost as if the Oilers knew what was wrong. They started getting in close on me and there was nothing I could do. I had played well up until then, and they (management) thought, hey, we’re going to go with you anyway. I said, “Sure, I’ll do my best.”

...

THN: Up until this fall, the Islanders had a three-goalie system. How did it affect the team?

SMITH: It gave me a lot of holidays, that’s for sure. Seriously, it’s the type of thing that doesn’t work for a long period of time. They realized it here. You can’t play one guy every seven days and expect him to play well. It just doesn’t work that way. I wasn’t playing regularly until we got to the playoffs, I didn’t get any kind of rhythm going. Then, I played every night in the playoffs and I got the rhythm.

THN: What does this rhythm mean to a goalkeeper?

SMITH: That’s why I got hot in the playoffs. I had the rhythm going. People don’t understand that, a lot of times, the puck will hit a goalie because he’s in the right position. That’s the rhythm. When you play a lot, just the motion saves you. And when you don’t play regularly, that’s what hurts. Like in the old days, everybody raved about Jacques Plante. Yeah, but he played every game. There’s a big difference when you play every game and when you play one and sit one and you play one. There’s a big difference and people don’t realize that.

[Then it concludes with some talk about his hairpiece]

Mildly interesting from Rollie Melanson...

THN - Nov 6 1981 said:
The kind of help Melanson needed last week was from his teammates and he wasn’t getting much. In his three starts, he allowed 14 goals, but he also faced 120 shots in that span.

“I don’t know why. but the team always seems to be flat when I’m playing,” Melanson said after the Washington game. “I’m not saying I’ve been sharp, but it’s a fact that we play sloppy when I’m in there.

“Maybe the guys don’t have that much faith in me, or they don’t feel comfortable when I’m in there. Whatever it is, the goaltender’s going to get the blame when there’s a breakdown. It’s automatic. It’s expected.”

What has not been expected is the wide open style of play in front of Melanson. The Islanders are advocates of the bump-and-grind style. clutching, grabbing and interfering with their opponents defensively to key their explosive offensive abilities.

But, despite an excellent start in the win-loss department, they have not looked like the Islanders who won 30 of 39 playoff games the past two seasons. That might be understandable with 23 weeks of the regular season remaining, but the complacency does hurt the goaltenders.
 
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MXD

Partying Hard
Oct 27, 2005
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Any explanation as to why Smith saw no duty at Canada Cup? (3rd stringer in 1981, off the team in 1984?)

Sorry if this is super obvious, and yeah, I realize Smith wasn't getting any younger in 1984, but he was perfectly fine in 83-84.
 

Michael Farkas

Celebrate 68
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Any explanation as to why Smith saw no duty at Canada Cup? (3rd stringer in 1981, off the team in 1984?)

Sorry if this is super obvious, and yeah, I realize Smith wasn't getting any younger in 1984, but he was perfectly fine in 83-84.
Smith was the #2 in Canada Cup '81, but was hurt in practice...removing any shot of game action that he had.

I don't think he was wild about playing in these tournaments in general, so he probably didn't need a good reason not to be there...I've seen conjecture on this board about him not wanting to be at Canada Cup '84 due to mistreatment by Edmonton fans. In the interview I had just posted, he specifically calls out Edmonton fans as well.
 

The Pale King

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Sep 24, 2011
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Oilers and Islanders players were notoriously difficult to get into the same dressing room for those tournaments from what I've read. It's easy to imagine how a guy like Smith wouldn't have wanted a lot to do with fraternizing with those guys, especially with what we know now about some of the Oilers off-ice choices.
 

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