HOH Top 60 Goaltenders of All Time (2024 Edition) - Round 2, Vote 4

[blogofmike]

If nothing else, I really hope that he can finally disconnect Billy Smith and Grant Fuhr. They are multiple tiers apart. Even if Fuhr plays 75 games and Smith 52 a year, it's not that close for me.

I have that flipped, but that debate isn't in the cards for this round. Smith only played 52 GP once though. Fuhr hit 75 GP more than that.

Smith peaked at 58 GP a mark Fuhr hit 7 times, and more relevant to this round, Parent hit 6 times (WHA season counted), including the two big years where he wins the Vezina and Smythe on a team that loaded up on PK time as a strategy (or by-product of its strategy, if you prefer).

Someone's going to have to explain it to me what Charlie Gardiner did that Bernie Parent didn't, so that the guy who played the majority of the schedule in 11 of 14 pro seasons, while being a fantastic goalie for 2 Cups (without HHOF defenders like Conacher and Coulter,) seems to be getting dinged for longevity.

 

[bobholly39]

How good are Bernie Parent's back to back smythe runs?

How do they measure to some of the greatest playoff runs ever by a goalie? I usually have Roy 1993 at the top, and Giguere is probably close. Is Parent on the same level?

Parent was the only back to back smythe winner in history until Mario Lemieux did it in the 90s, and eventually Crosby too. So it's a super rare feat.

 

[bobholly39]

A pass in the sense he's not a choker.

No pass here, because maybe a Bernie Parent level of play would have ended the series in 4 or 5 and thus Bobrovsky isn't here yet.

Ken Dryden had an 'easy' career for winning Cups. He definitely had some soft games when he could have put his opponents away. But Dryden had maybe 3 clunkers in late series games over 3 rounds on the way to the 1973 Cup. Having 3 in 3 games is a dicier proposition for your team's chances.

Yeah but if it's the finals, who cares if you win in 4 or 7 games? You have the full summer to rest up. I'd be more annoyed by it in earlier rounds - "choking" in games 5/6 and force your team to go 7 can have repurcussions in later rounds.

Still not really sure how relevant this line of thought is in this thread though. Will be an interresting dialogue for Bobrosvky specifically maybe when he pops up.

If nothing else, I really hope that he can finally disconnect Billy Smith and Grant Fuhr. They are multiple tiers apart. Even if Fuhr plays 75 games and Smith 52 a year, it's not that close for me.

In other random musings, I lament sometimes that players will lose an MVP because they missed a couple too many games, but meanwhile dudes will get full freight for partial seasons (like 2013) - Subban got a Norris for 42 games, Bobrovsky got a Vezina for 37 or 38, etc. They get full value out of those.

If Vasilevskiy was permitted to play just 38 games in 2018, he probably wins the Vezina.
He goes from 2.62 / .920 (full season) down to 2.23 / .929 (first 38). So, now he's sitting: 1st in wins, 1st in save pct., 2nd in GAA, 1st in shutouts (among other 38-game players) on a 27-8-2 record. Seems pretty likely his 3rd place finish because a 1. Now, we're talking about a first-team all star in 3 of his first 4 seasons as starter.

I know it's "fun with numbers" and maybe it does absolutely zero to change the perception of him, but so much of these averaging stats and trophy voting is really a nip here and a tuck there from looking very different.

I agree with the idea that Billy Smith is way above Fuhr, and it's not particularly close.

In regards to games played - I definitely think it's more impressive, and more difficult, to have a higher caliber season with ~60+ games, then if you're playing less.

Carey Price - 7 seasons of 58+ games
Luongo - 10 seasons of 58+ games
Vasilevskiy - Only 3 seasons of 58+ games. In his 3 best seasons (2019, 2020, 2021), he played 53, 52 & 42 games respectively. Good on him/Tampa for playing less and getting the most out of him, and being able to stay fresh & perform in the playoffs - but it definitely tends to help his numbers, both in regular season and playoffs.